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Rooney Rule modification

Gridiron said:
Shula was 138-39-5 all 14 game seasons a winning percentage of 78 % with 2 Super Bowl wins in 4 attempts.

Tomlin is at 133-74-1 with a winning percentage of 64 percent huge advantage Shula He has 5 less wins and 35 more losses in 26 less games and has NEVER had a season with even just 2 losses. He also has not been to the Super Bow in 10 years and counting.
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Your math is off:
Shula: 138+39+5 = 182 games
Tomlin: 133+74+1 = 206
Shula, not Tomlin had fewer games under your criteria. Also interesting to note that Shula had a HOF QB from '83 to '95 and got one trip to the SB during that time period ('84). After the '84 season, Shula's post season record was pretty pedestrian (when they made it to the post season). Now, to be fair, he made it more often with an in his prime Marino than Tomlin has with Ben over the last few seasons. So, there's that. But, let's not act as if what he failed to accomplish having Marino for 13 years wasn't a disappointment (at least for Dolphins fans. I could care less because Shula never coached the Steelers).
 
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Gridiron said:
He is no where near Shula in won loss percentage after 13 years, Care to compare?

Shula dominates him in every aspect. Shula was 138-39-5 all 14 game seasons a winning percentage of 78 % with 2 Super Bowl wins in 4 attempts. he lost ZERO games on year, One game in two years and 2 games in 2 years. One year he went 11-1-2 in 1967 and MISSED the playoffs

Tomlin is at 133-74-1 with a winning percentage of 64 percent huge advantage Shula He has 5 less wins and 35 more losses in 26 less games and has NEVER had a season with even just 2 losses. He also has not been to the Super Bow in 10 years and counting.
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Mis-statement of the facts......Shula’s record is impacted by the amount of games played. From 63-77 Shula played 14 regular season games. Beginning in 78 the 16 game schedule started. So for approximately 15 years Shula coaches 30 less games, not counting playoffs. Apples and oranges comparison in regards to playoffs W/L since the majority of Coach Shula’s were during the 14 game schedule years. Would have to look at the numbers after 78 to 95 to estimate the comparison there, but he was no where near as successful and he had a superb QB for over a decade as well.


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Gridiron said:
Crickets from Cope, dumbass care to refute the numbers ?
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You quickly throw insults up with a weak debate. It shows your football intelligence level. I am no huge Tomlin fan but Shula had a lack of SB trophies with Marino. The main beef the fans have with Tomlin he hasn't won enough with Big Ben when it mattered the most. That is the only stats that matter besides playoff victories is SB wins. Shula was a solid coach and edged Tomlin where it mattered. But he also had some deficiencies as Tomlin has a better playoff win percentage. Both were just above average in that area. With one coach Shula having one more SB victory. Bottom line both should have been better in the clutch.


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slashsteel said:
You quickly throw insults up with a weak debate. It shows your football intelligence level. I am no huge Tomlin fan but Shula had a lack of SB trophies with Marino. The main beef the fans have with Tomlin he hasn't won enough with Big Ben when it mattered the most. That is the only stats that matter besides playoff victories is SB wins. Shula was a solid coach and edged Tomlin where it mattered. But he also had some deficiencies as Tomlin has a better playoff win percentage. Both were just above average in that area. With one coach Shula having one more SB victory. Bottom line both should have been better in the clutch.


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Slash, if you take Shula's years with Marino v Tomlin's years with Ben, you find Shula with more playoff appearances, but 1 less AFC Championship and one less Super Bowl win. I'd say Tomlin edges Shula where it matters. I use the Marino years because that's about even up; one HC with one HOF caliber QB in their prime for the same amount of years.
 
Absolutely nuts. Comparing a modern NFL coach with a guy that starting coach in 1963. Shula won 2 SBs and an NFL title before the merger. Tomlin isn't in Shula's league. Shula is the only coach in NFL history to have an undefeated season and win a SB. Understand Shula won as many playoff games in 3 years (8) as Tomlin has in 13 years. Please just stop....
 
Vader said:
Absolutely nuts. Comparing a modern NFL coach with a guy that starting coach in 1963. Shula won 2 SBs and an NFL title before the merger. Tomlin isn't in Shula's league. Shula is the only coach in NFL history to have an undefeated season and win a SB. Understand Shula won as many playoff games in 3 years (8) as Tomlin has in 13 years. Please just stop....
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Your argument is correct, but I do see Tomlin as tracking toward Shula numbers. Especially if he plays for another 10+ years.

And it is true, all great coaches are linked to a great QB. Shula had 2
 
Cope said:
Keep moving the goal posts Grid, since your argument of Tomlin being a dime a dozen is a farce, and laughable.
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he is just a guy not moving any goal posts. Marvin Lewis went to 5 straight playoffs with the Bengals, think Tomlin could have done it ? There is nothing Tomlin does well, he is a poor in game coach, a poor X and O coach, continually loses to the dregs of the NFL, misses the playoffs 38 % of the time with a loaded team and a HOF QB his entire tenure and has won 3 playoff games in 10 years , two against back up QBs and one a gift by Birth Defect. We are not contenders anymore under this idiot. Enjoy, I want more than this buffoon.
 
Cope said:
Never Mind. Shula had 3. Forgot he head coached with Balt and Unitas.
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You mean the Colts who went 11-1-2 in 1967 and MISSED the playoffs ? The mediocre Tomlin misses the playoffs 38 Percent of the time in the expanded era of playoffs, he is no Don Shula, he is more Mike Shula.
 
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I am and always will be "the best man for the job " kind of guy. Nothing else matters. Special privileges for going outside of this is morally wrong and hypocritical to what you're trying to accomplish. You should give equal opportunity, but you can't legislate outcome from opportunity. Life doesn't work like that.

Take the best to be the best.
 
Vader;726883[B said:
]Absolutely nuts. Comparing a modern NFL coach with a guy that starting coach in 1963[/B]. Shula won 2 SBs and an NFL title before the merger. Tomlin isn't in Shula's league. Shula is the only coach in NFL history to have an undefeated season and win a SB. Understand Shula won as many playoff games in 3 years (8) as Tomlin has in 13 years. Please just stop....
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Just pointing out that you also make the comparison. May not be in a light favorable to Tomlin ... but still.
 
Gridiron said:
he is just a guy not moving any goal posts. Marvin Lewis went to 5 straight playoffs with the Bengals, think Tomlin could have done it ? There is nothing Tomlin does well, he is a poor in game coach, a poor X and O coach, continually loses to the dregs of the NFL, misses the playoffs 38 % of the time with a loaded team and a HOF QB his entire tenure and has won 3 playoff games in 10 years , two against back up QBs and one a gift by Birth Defect. We are not contenders anymore under this idiot. Enjoy, I want more than this buffoon.
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A better argument. I think ultimately Shula was the better coach but their win percentage when it matters is still very similar. That SB differential sticks out to me more than anything tilts favorably towards Shula. For me Tomlin needs to win another to elevate his position comparisons. I like to see that .500 playoff win percentage jump into the .600s too because ultimately that is the problem I had with Shula. I have never thought of Tomlin being much of a X and O coach.We have to hope the coaching around him can pick up the slack in this area. Because that is where we are we know the organization is standing pat regardless. I think they are just fond of his regular season winning percentage. We also know our fan base will support the team regardless. We know that the Rooney's know that. So basically they won't be jumping through hoops to change when those pockets are thickly lined with green. I do get the frustrations from fans **** I have them too. Usually toward the end of the season primarily. Miss the playoffs again or a quick out, I will be front lining for his exit. Again not that ultimately that would matter....we are stuck for better or worse. So I can do nothing but hope for the best.


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slashsteel said:
I have never thought of Tomlin being much of a X and O coach.
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And here lies the crux of the matter.

None of the assistants appear to be either, Tomlin believes he is that guy, resulting in his ego not allowing creative assistants to be hired.
 
Marvin Lewis?? HA! Marvin could never win a playoff game. You guys complain about Tomlin's game management. He managed his way out of way more games.

Want an apples to apples analogy with Marv? Cower lost to Marv 3 times in 4 years. It took 6 years for Marv to get 3 wins on Tomlin. Then only 2 more wins the next 6 years, and those are Marv's stacked playoff teams that were very talented.

If only turnovers and injuries never occurred in the NFL, our team would be never lose!
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Just pointing out that you also make the comparison. May not be in a light favorable to Tomlin ... but still.
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You guys were talking about games won which is what I was referring too. Shula coached during 14 game seasons. I should have pointed that out.
 
It's hard to compare two different eras especially with the salary cap and Free Agency. Part of Noll's & Shula's success was they could keep teams way more in-tack back then. It created a way STOUTER league and making it harder to win.

This day and age your lucky to get two maybe three-five SUPER STARS on one team. Playoff teams don't seem to be as STOUT as in Shula's era. But here again, comparing across eras is a no-win arguement either for / against.



Salute the nation
 
Obviously, it is what it is. Don Shula's book is written. I'm sure that Tomlin is thankful for the opportunity to add pages, and possibly chapters to his.
 
ZonaBurgh said:
And here lies the crux of the matter.

None of the assistants appear to be either, Tomlin believes he is that guy, resulting in his ego not allowing creative assistants to be hired.
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This is where misconception or possibly the wrong nomenclature is used. “X’s & O’s Coach” This is an outdated term. Yeah Lombardi and Coryell, Stram, Walsh, were innovators, but that is from a different era. Heck most think Cowher invented the Blitzburgh 3-4. Far from it. Dick LeBeau and Don Capers invented it. Cowher got everyone on the same page implementing it with Donahoe, then Colbert and the scouts. His offense was handled by Walton, Earnhardt (Rush first philosophy) then Gailey, (Sherman), Gilbride, Mularkey, Whiz. As we all should know Chin’s experience came from a Defensive background, worked up through Shottenheimer as special teams coord to D Coord. The closest person today to be considered an offensive innovator would be Payton and has Brees.McVay could turn into one. But had minimum role on Defense. Phillips handled it. So X & O term isn’t the best use for an opinion.


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slashsteel said:
A better argument. I think ultimately Shula was the better coach but their win percentage when it matters is still very similar. That SB differential sticks out to me more than anything tilts favorably towards Shula. For me Tomlin needs to win another to elevate his position comparisons. I like to see that .500 playoff win percentage jump into the .600s too because ultimately that is the problem I had with Shula. I have never thought of Tomlin being much of a X and O coach.We have to hope the coaching around him can pick up the slack in this area. Because that is where we are we know the organization is standing pat regardless. I think they are just fond of his regular season winning percentage. We also know our fan base will support the team regardless. We know that the Rooney's know that. So basically they won't be jumping through hoops to change when those pockets are thickly lined with green. I do get the frustrations from fans **** I have them too. Usually toward the end of the season primarily. Miss the playoffs again or a quick out, I will be front lining for his exit. Again not that ultimately that would matter....we are stuck for better or worse. So I can do nothing but hope for the best.


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The winning percentages are not even close. Shula had a 78 % winning record his first 13 years including building a dynasty out of an awful expansion Dolphins team and Tomlin has a 64 % wnning clip with an inherited HOF QB and a loaded Super Bowl winning roster.
 
Gridiron said:
The winning percentages are not even close. Shula had a 78 % winning record his first 13 years including building a dynasty out of an awful expansion Dolphins team and Tomlin has a 64 % wnning clip with an inherited HOF QB and a loaded Super Bowl winning roster.
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I was talking about playoff percentage as that for me is a more important statistic. Besides the rings of course. We probably aren't too far off with our evals. The thing is one mans career is over and the other is still a work in progress. Shula may still eclipse Tomlin in the end. For better or worse the book is still open. How it plays out....we'll see.

I always leave a Tomlin debate feeling he isn't as bad as some think, and as good as some others think. It is like watching the Grey Hulk. There is some strengths... some weaknesses. Moments of nice, and other moments wishing for the green Hulk marveling in dis belief.
 
Tomlin is like a coin, he has two sides. You get the "heads I win" side which leads to all his alcolades / great moments / ect.. Then you get the other side "tails you lose" side and WhoALa you get the bone headed / can't believe type / ameture WTF things.

As fans, on a daily / hourly / minutely basis we are always waiting to see which side of the coin we will get. There is NOT enough CONSISTANCY to never expect the boneheaded-ness that we have lived at the biggest stages of the season / game.

Here's to witnessing what we call the "you win" side of the coin all the way to #7


EDIT: spelling


Salute the nation
 
Cope said:
Marvin Lewis?? HA! Marvin could never win a playoff game. You guys complain about Tomlin's game management. He managed his way out of way more games.

Want an apples to apples analogy with Marv? Cower lost to Marv 3 times in 4 years. It took 6 years for Marv to get 3 wins on Tomlin. Then only 2 more wins the next 6 years, and those are Marv's stacked playoff teams that were very talented.

If only turnovers and injuries never occurred in the NFL, our team would be never lose!
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To be fair.....when you bring in Cowher's comparisons you might remember a hell of a lot of people on this board wanted him fired. There were many gut wrenching losses,after big regular seasons. I really think people sometimes forget about many huge losses under Bill's teams.

So it really is not that surprising that people are calling for Mike's head. I mean ****,we don't even get in the playoffs anymore. And when we do as of lately,we are out pretty dam quick. I don't see any favoritism towards either coach.
We just want to win. One day.....10 years after Mikes leaving the Steelers his legend will grow also. Just like Bill's has. Time heals...
 
Meh.

Call it what it is Affirmative Action.
 
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