Rooney Rule modification

[Vader]

Don Shula was a hack. He couldn't win without George Wilson's players...

See how dumb that sounds now?

How many SBs did Wilson win with Wilson's players? Oh just BTW Wilson never won over 5 games.. never made the playoffs and was the Dolphins' first coach. Shula went to the playoffs his first year and won 2 SBs and went to 3 in his first 4 years.

See how dumb that sounds now?

 

[MTC]

I am and always will be "the best man for the job " kind of guy. Nothing else matters. Special privileges for going outside of this is morally wrong and hypocritical to what you're trying to accomplish. You should give equal opportunity, but you can't legislate outcome from opportunity. Life doesn't work like that.

Take the best to be the best.

Yeah

 

[Stryker]

The question was rhetorical, but since you answered, I do find it interesting that Shula's entire core came from Wilson's teams.

QB Greise
RB Czonka
RB Mercury Morris
RB Jim Kiick
DB Dick Anderson the turnover machine

It was a running league, and the top 3 RBs, and QB all came from Wilson.

 

[Vader]

The question was rhetorical, but since you answered, I do find it interesting that Shula's entire core came from Wilson's teams.

QB Greise
RB Czonka
RB Mercury Morris
RB Jim Kiick
DB Dick Anderson the turnover machine

It was a running league, and the top 3 RBs, and QB all came from Wilson.

And again what exactly did Wilson win with them? I understand you love you some Tomlin and will defend him at every single point. I get it. But making apples to aliens comparisons aren't helping your cause. Tomlin won early with a team that had already won a SB. His entire defense except for Woodley, came from the previous coach. Almost the entire offense except for 2 (A bad center and a TE) came from the previous coach. He had the "core" from Cowher for years. And still has his QB. Comparing him to Shula is just ridiculous because they were in completely different circumstances... and you know it.

 

[antdrewjosh]

This is where misconception or possibly the wrong nomenclature is used. “X’s & O’s Coach” This is an outdated term. Yeah Lombardi and Coryell, Stram, Walsh, were innovators, but that is from a different era. Heck most think Cowher invented the Blitzburgh 3-4. Far from it. Dick LeBeau and Don Capers invented it. Cowher got everyone on the same page implementing it with Donahoe, then Colbert and the scouts. His offense was handled by Walton, Earnhardt (Rush first philosophy) then Gailey, (Sherman), Gilbride, Mularkey, Whiz. As we all should know Chin’s experience came from a Defensive background, worked up through Shottenheimer as special teams coord to D Coord. The closest person today to be considered an offensive innovator would be Payton and has Brees.McVay could turn into one. But had minimum role on Defense. Phillips handled it. So X & O term isn’t the best use for an opinion.


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Kaboly answering his mailbag on the Athletic site

 

[slashsteel]

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Kaboly answering his mailbag on the Athletic site

One mans opinion. Not sure it is an accurate one.

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[CharlesDavenport]

Noll was great. Cowher was very good. Tomlin sucks.

 

[Stryker]

Noll was great. Cowher was very good. Tomlin sucks.

For me it's Noll > Cowher = Tomlin

 

[Stryker]

And again what exactly did Wilson win with them? I understand you love you some Tomlin and will defend him at every single point. I get it. But making apples to aliens comparisons aren't helping your cause. Tomlin won early with a team that had already won a SB. His entire defense except for Woodley, came from the previous coach. Almost the entire offense except for 2 (A bad center and a TE) came from the previous coach. He had the "core" from Cowher for years. And still has his QB. Comparing him to Shula is just ridiculous because they were in completely different circumstances... and you know it.

It doesn't matter if you're using the tired argument of this coach won with that teams players, because I just laid out the argument showing how dumb it is to say it about any coach.

 

[antdrewjosh]

One mans opinion. Not sure it is an accurate one.

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Definitely one man's opinion just pointing out some with close ties to the team is pointing out Tomlin's X and Os something he isn't given much credit for on this site.

Here is Minkah also pointing that out

And he believes that is precisely why he was able to develop. As you’ll recall, Fitzpatrick was not thrilled about the way that the Miami Dolphins’ coaching staff was using him last season before they traded him to Pittsburgh. That may or may not have been a small part of the reason that he was made available. Either way, the point is, Pittsburgh saw this, trusted their scouting of him, and put him where they thought he would flourish.

“I think that Coach Tomlin and Coach But did a great job of studying me and making sure they’re maximizing, not just myself, but everybody else in the secondary”, he told Bryant McFadden over the weekend when interviewed for CBS Sports. His earlier comments make it clear that he is contrasting that to his last year in Miami.

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...ng-him-in-a-role-that-maximizes-his-abilties/

 

[slashsteel]

Definitely one man's opinion just pointing out some with close ties to the team is pointing out Tomlin's X and Os something he isn't given much credit for on this site.

Here is Minkah also pointing that out

And he believes that is precisely why he was able to develop. As you’ll recall, Fitzpatrick was not thrilled about the way that the Miami Dolphins’ coaching staff was using him last season before they traded him to Pittsburgh. That may or may not have been a small part of the reason that he was made available. Either way, the point is, Pittsburgh saw this, trusted their scouting of him, and put him where they thought he would flourish.

“I think that Coach Tomlin and Coach But did a great job of studying me and making sure they’re maximizing, not just myself, but everybody else in the secondary”, he told Bryant McFadden over the weekend when interviewed for CBS Sports. His earlier comments make it clear that he is contrasting that to his last year in Miami.

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...ng-him-in-a-role-that-maximizes-his-abilties/

There has been a turnover in secondary coaches which helped that D and getting Bush and Mink..not so much new found schematics.

Not going to take stock in what a reporter thinks he knows, they get what is fed to them. Or what they invent.

Mink gave Tomlin and Butler credit. Something you expect a player to do.

We have watched enough games under Tomlin to know that he is a solid motivator, but nothing to make me ever think his strength was X and O's. You are still fishing fluff articles to back your viewpoints on Tomlin.

Some fans hate that middle ground, he has to be all that and a bag of peanuts.

Tomlin is a good coach that lately hasn't been good enough.

Not a bad one not a great one, not some X and O guru, those blank stares on the sidelines often paint a more accurate description.

He isn't X and O ing schematics with his shades on and a blank stare.

No he is what has been regurgitated over and over again.

Let us not invent strengths to mask weaknesses.

 

[Vader]

It doesn't matter if you're using the tired argument of this coach won with that teams players, because I just laid out the argument showing how dumb it is to say it about any coach.

No you laid out a horribly concocted comparison of two coaches that couldn't be more different. The issue with Tomlin is that he won with a staked team that had already won a SB just 2 years before. Wilson didn't win anything and Shula took over a team that had never won 6 games in a season. If you seriously can't see the difference in those two scenarios then I don't know what else to tell you. Obviously you think Tomlin is a good/great coach and no matter what stats, evidence or facts are presented you aren't going to be moved. I get it.

 

[Drink IRON City]

True that slash, Tomlin left his OC out there even though even an ameture like me could see problems. I remember Cohwer taking over OC duties when Sherman couldn't handle it. Never have I seen Tomlin get active in Randy's face or take over the play calling in ANY game. A little more X & O coach surely would have at least interuptede the flow of the crappy game plan.




Salute the nation

 

[slashsteel]

True that slash, Tomlin left his OC out there even though even an ameture like me could see problems. I remember Cohwer taking over OC duties when Sherman couldn't handle it. Never have I seen Tomlin get active in Randy's face or take over the play calling in ANY game. A little more X & O coach surely would have at least interuptede the flow of the crappy game plan.




Salute the nation

He doesn't take it over because he knows that isn't his strength. He relies on his assistants. Which yeah failed him miserably. But they weeded out some lame duck coaches perhaps that will be enough to get over that hump. Maybe maybe not. It is a wait and see. But overall the final results haven't been promising. I think there is a more complete roster now. So if the Oline can stay steady and some of these new coaches can coach well we might be in business. Tomlin isn't going to Andy Reid his way to a SB victory...just not his coaching strength. If he stays to his strengths and the assistants stay to theirs who knows.

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[antdrewjosh]

There has been a turnover in secondary coaches which helped that D and getting Bush and Mink..not so much new found schematics.

Not going to take stock in what a reporter thinks he knows, they get what is fed to them. Or what they invent.

Mink gave Tomlin and Butler credit. Something you expect a player to do.

We have watched enough games under Tomlin to know that he is a solid motivator, but nothing to make me ever think his strength was X and O's. You are still fishing fluff articles to back your viewpoints on Tomlin.

Some fans hate that middle ground, he has to be all that and a bag of peanuts.

Tomlin is a good coach that lately hasn't been good enough.

Not a bad one not a great one, not some X and O guru, those blank stares on the sidelines often paint a more accurate description.

He isn't X and O ing schematics with his shades on and a blank stare.

No he is what has been regurgitated over and over again.

Let us not invent strengths to mask weaknesses.

So what exactly would qualify to you as proof..player says it you don't believe it. But wearing sunglasses somehow proves something?? Moving up and drafting Bush after being blamed for not doing enough to replace Shazier. Trading for Minkah when everyone thought it was a dumb move at the time. They could of easily played him like the Dolphins did. I would like to think a reporter who is at practice and games opinion carries some weight.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

He doesn't take it over because he knows that isn't his strength. He relies on his assistants. Which yeah failed him miserably. But they weeded out some lame duck coaches perhaps that will be enough to get over that hump. Maybe maybe not. It is a wait and see. But overall the final results haven't been promising. I think there is a more complete roster now. So if the Oline can stay steady and some of these new coaches can coach well we might be in business. Tomlin isn't going to Andy Reid his way to a SB victory...just not his coaching strength. If he stays to his strengths and the assistants stay to theirs who knows.

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Wait, now if I remember correctly, just two seasons ago folks were upset because it was reported that Tomlin took over the D from Butler and made changes to the X's and O's of the defense. A lot of folks were upset that the Steelers began playing more sub package football instead of the "base" 3-4. Now, the D appears to be back and all of the sudden Tomlin is relying on Butler's X's and O's? OK then

 

[slashsteel]

Wait, now if I remember correctly, just two seasons ago folks were upset because it was reported that Tomlin took over the D from Butler and made changes to the X's and O's of the defense. A lot of folks were upset that the Steelers began playing more sub package football instead of the "base" 3-4. Now, the D appears to be back and all of the sudden Tomlin is relying on Butler's X's and O's? OK then

Perhaps don't believe everything you read. Truth be told Butler took over for an ineffective Joey P. I don't buy Tomlin is calling the D for one NY second. His actions on the sideline don't draw away from that conclusion.

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[slashsteel]

So what exactly would qualify to you as proof..player says it you don't believe it. But wearing sunglasses somehow proves something?? Moving up and drafting Bush after being blamed for not doing enough to replace Shazier. Trading for Minkah when everyone thought it was a dumb move at the time. They could of easily played him like the Dolphins did. I would like to think a reporter who is at practice and games opinion carries some weight.

I know your well documented love affair for Tomlin. We know it differs from why Cope likes him but we will keep that on the low. Shhh our secret. Sorry reporters report the news. He isn't some know all. If they were most of the crap they spewed wouldn't turn out to be just that crap. They are known fluffers. We know fluffers are there for a rise not because they are some know all. I somewhat value their opinions but they are just that opinion takers. Who get paid to write and for their sake report fluff so they can keep those press passes. As far as Tomlin you know he isn't on the sideline drawing up plays. You know why, I know why, Steelernation knows why. Weren't you the poster that said coaches coach? Well our coordinators coordinate plays. Tomlin motivates and coaches players. No bullshit powder puff article will change that fact on how the Steelers run their team. Sure he will stick his nose in from time to time but even then it has come with mixed results. As in documented ****** clock management and ****** game time adjustments decision making. So what qualifies me as proof? My eyes. I see other X and O head coaches in there reviewing plays going over plays with their players. Our coach is there on the sidelines interacting with players not with a play sheet in hand. That again is what our coordinators do. And that is perfectly fine that not being his strength. As long as he is hiring the right people. Obviously history shows that has come with mixed results.

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[CharlesDavenport]

For me it's Noll > Cowher = Tomlin

We will never agree on this. Cowher was one good quarterback away from multiple SBs. He almost won one with Neil O'Dummy. Won all 13 games Ben started as a rookie, and won the SB the next year. I just don't have Tomlin in the same class as Cowher at all.

 

[slashsteel]

We will never agree on this. Cowher was one good quarterback away from multiple SBs. He almost won one with Neil O'Dummy. Won all 13 games Ben started as a rookie, and won the SB the next year. I just don't have Tomlin in the same class as Cowher at all.

It is Noll >Cowher>Tomlin. Cowher was strong until his off the field problems surfaced last year. He really did more with less. Tomlin has done less with more. Again Tomlin needs to raise up his playoff win percentage to get on even ground. Right now it is two HOF coaches and one good coach. It may never be more than that.

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[slashsteel]

Alex Kozora
@Alex_Kozora
·
1m
Replying t. I think it's a mix and Tomlin's influence has obviously grown but I still see Butler with the playsheet more than I do MT.

Which is pretty much in line with my thinking. Tomlin chimes in with probably in all aspects of the game. He should he is the head coach.

But he isn't calling the D, he isn't a X and O coach and we shouldn't pretend that he is.

He is a good coach that knows how to motivate and interact with his players. That is his strengths. He also shares credit for talent evaluation and growth or shares the blame when they fall below the standards.

 

[Hoot]

A little more X & O coach surely would have at least interuptede the flow of the crappy game plan.
Salute the nation

i think it quite possible to understand X's and O's...to understand how a scheme works and find ways to be innovative. The main issues i have had with MT are his game day decision making. I have been on sidelines making decision in HS and the clock moves darn fast with everything going on around you. Bad decisions in the heat of the moment doesn't mean you don't understand scheme. I do think the man is very intelligent - one does not get into W&M without being so. I don't question his smarts; just his decision processes when under the clock pressures.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Exposure to the process is very important for a lot of candidates that could be an after thought.. I don't know if Mike Tomlin gets the HC job if he's not given the chance to interview. Mind is a little fuzzy, but I don't recall him being a hot candidate besides Grimm, Rivera and Whisenhunt at the time, but he blew the FO away.

I'd be all for a Charlie Waters Rule to address the lack of white secondary prospects invited to the draft combine and team training camps. There is a glaring prejudice against their abilities in scouting departments and nobody says you have to "hire" them on the final 53. But? More exposure to the interview and selection process would help to get more qualified candidates into the pipeline while addressing systemic bias against these prospects.

If the pilot works well, it could later be tweaked to include running backs -- with a "Craig James Rule."

Certainly, a lot of the measureables are culturally biased as the whites do better historically with distance running.

A Charlie Waters Rule would help to address the black privilege at those positions, IMO.

 

[SojournerSteel]

It is Noll >Cowher>Tomlin. Cowher was strong until his off the field problems surfaced last year. He really did more with less. Tomlin has done less with more. Again Tomlin needs to raise up his playoff win percentage to get on even ground. Right now it is two HOF coaches and one good coach. It may never be more than that.

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Well said. Tomlin won 3 playoff games in the last 9 years. Noll won 2 playoff games his last 9 years generally regarded as the Great Recession years for fans. With Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.

Bottom line? Tomlin doesn't win enough playoff games relative to talent and organizational stability.

 

[Stryker]

If the pilot works well, it could later be tweaked to include running backs -- with a "Craig James Rule."

I thought for RB it's called the Christian McCaffrey Rule? lolz...