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According To PG. Tomlin micromanaged Defense. & Changes are happening from Rooney

And again no matter when he took over or not lets not forget we are talking about a defense that finished 5th in the league in total defense. Led the league in sacks. But im sure that was all Butler. Tomlin just responsible for the playoff game vs Jacksonville.

And once again this isnt about how good a coach he is or not. This is about anything thats good about this team he had nothing to do with.
 
Just ran across this

“Talking with Mike, I know he’s a big part of the defense as well,” Cowher said. “But listen, when Ryan Shazier went down, they lost their best defensive player. It’s almost like losing Ben on offense. I think a lot of people just thought, ‘Well, you just plug another guy in there.’ You don’t just plug another guy in there for Ryan Shazier. He played all three downs, he was one of their best pass defenders in terms of working the inside of the field, and he was a very good run defender. He gave them speed, he made all the calls on defense – that’s hard to overcome late in the season when you lose your best defensive player. People just thought, ‘What happened to the defense?’ Well, if you take your best player off the field, if you take Tom Brady off the field, you’re not going to be the same defense or the same offense. That was a big loss for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/cbssport...-losing-shazier-was-big-loss-for-defense/amp/
 
antdrewjosh said:
And again no matter when he took over or not lets not forget we are talking about a defense that finished 5th in the league in total defense. Led the league in sacks. But im sure that was all Butler. Tomlin just responsible for the playoff game vs Jacksonville.

And once again this isnt about how good a coach he is or not. This is about anything thats good about this team he had nothing to do with.
Click to expand...

It is about something. It might be about how good a coach he is or not.

The OP is about Mr. rooney being involved in changes happening. And about who was pushing buttons on the defense.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Shazier was a key factor in the Defense AND his loss a key factor in its demise. However think about this.. And this isnt all of them.

look what the eagles did ,,, without Wentz

and without a few others..

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/10/eagles_injury_update_latest_on_jordan_hicks_jason.html
Click to expand...

The eagles were lucky enough to have someone who could come in and run their offense..

And how many games did we lose after losing Shazier?? Two games. One to Patriots a game that everyone here thinks we were screwed out of. And to the Jags.
 
How about the stuff we know.
Trying to use 2DL on short yardage or goal line?
How about trying that onside kick in the playoff game?
What about not having the O on the same page after the 4 min review vs NE?
Late in the Jags game we are in FG range with 40 seconds left down by 10. You kick the FG and try an onside kick, if you recover it, you have a couple shots at the end zone.
Trying to run wide to the short side of the field on 4th down.
Not allowing QB sneaks.
Reluctant to go no huddle or up tempo because the other offense is struggling.
Playing afraid and scared vs no name crap QBs.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
AggieSteel said:
Yeah for me it’s not “good picks are others, bad picks are Tomlin”

For me, there’s a clear divide between offensive drafting/development and defensive drafting/development. I have to assume, as has been reported many times and only makes logical sense, that Tomlin has way more personal investment of his coaching efforts in our defense than in our offense. So when I see that, under his tenure, or defensive draft picks (and even signings) are basically guaranteed to not live up to billing save for a couple special guys, then I am skeptical. Meanwhile, we turn offensive draft picks from any round (hell even some undrafted) into stars


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Click to expand...

It was also reported that late in the season Tomlin veto'd offensive plays called by Haley and inserted his own calls. Can't remember whether it was one game or a few. Sooooo ... have at it fellas (and gals).
 
Coryea said:
How about the stuff we know.
Trying to use 2DL on short yardage or goal line?
How about trying that onside kick in the playoff game?
What about not having the O on the same page after the 4 min review vs NE?
Late in the Jags game we are in FG range with 40 seconds left down by 10. You kick the FG and try an onside kick, if you recover it, you have a couple shots at the end zone.
Trying to run wide to the short side of the field on 4th down.
Not allowing QB sneaks.
Reluctant to go no huddle or up tempo because the other offense is struggling.
Playing afraid and scared vs no name crap QBs.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
Click to expand...

I didnt like neither of the 4th down calls and i hated the onside kick. You have formational issues with his coaching i do too.. i hate the empty set on goal line and short yardage situations. I dont like that he doesnt let defensive guys have a opportunity to return kicks etc etc..

None of this has to do with what im bitching about.. Anything remotely good about this team gets attributed to someone else anyone else. Anything bad is all Tomlin. Everything. Its annoying.
 
Coryea said:
How about the stuff we know.
Trying to use 2DL on short yardage or goal line? Great job Tomlin using 3 Down linemen most of the time!
How about trying that onside kick in the playoff game? Great job Tomlin having normal kick offs 99% of the time!
What about not having the O on the same page after the 4 min review vs NE? Great Job Tomlin for getting us down the field to the point we were about to score!!

Late in the Jags game we are in FG range with 40 seconds left down by 10. You kick the FG and try an onside kick, if you recover it, you have a couple shots at the end zone.
Great job Tomlin having us in striking distance despite giving up over 40 points!!

Trying to run wide to the short side of the field on 4th down. Great job Tomlin, for having us only a yard to go on 4th down! Also great job at nearly fooling everyone. No one thought we would run it wide.

Not allowing QB sneaks. Great job Tomlin, for keeping ben pristine all season!!

Reluctant to go no huddle or up tempo because the other offense is struggling.
Great job Tomlin saving our weapons for the playoffs and stuff!!

Playing afraid and scared vs no name crap QBs.
Great job Tomlin at Not letting the team get too haughty!!
Click to expand...


Trying to do it antdrews way and give Tomlin credit for the things he did.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Just ran across this

“Talking with Mike, I know he’s a big part of the defense as well,” Cowher said. “But listen, when Ryan Shazier went down, they lost their best defensive player. It’s almost like losing Ben on offense. I think a lot of people just thought, ‘Well, you just plug another guy in there.’ You don’t just plug another guy in there for Ryan Shazier. He played all three downs, he was one of their best pass defenders in terms of working the inside of the field, and he was a very good run defender. He gave them speed, he made all the calls on defense – that’s hard to overcome late in the season when you lose your best defensive player. People just thought, ‘What happened to the defense?’ Well, if you take your best player off the field, if you take Tom Brady off the field, you’re not going to be the same defense or the same offense. That was a big loss for them.”

https://www.google.com/amp/cbssport...-losing-shazier-was-big-loss-for-defense/amp/
Click to expand...

The defense started going downhill during the Packers game...before Shazier got hurt. They gave up 28 points and countless wide open WRs to a Landry Jones type backup QB who the Ravens shut out just a week before in Green Bay. I agree the Shazier situation compounded the downfall of the D but he certainly wasn't the sole reason for the defensive struggles since the signs were there before he was out.

I will give Tomlin credit for a mostly good defensive gameplan against the Pats. A couple of questionable times they went zone and somehow forgot Gronk was still in the game and it burned them but it was man to man for most of the game which is how it should be. And this was even WITHOUT SHAZIER. So this game was proof that a good defensive gameplan can and should have overcome the loss of Shazier.

However, none of the good that came out of the Pats game translated into the playoff game against the Jags. Rarely pressing WRs and running mostly zone that has time and time again burned this team and made below average offenses and QBs look like hall of famers. Why abandon what had worked? It makes zero sense to me.

Coryea said:
How about the stuff we know.
Trying to use 2DL on short yardage or goal line?
How about trying that onside kick in the playoff game?
What about not having the O on the same page after the 4 min review vs NE?
Late in the Jags game we are in FG range with 40 seconds left down by 10. You kick the FG and try an onside kick, if you recover it, you have a couple shots at the end zone.
Trying to run wide to the short side of the field on 4th down.
Not allowing QB sneaks.
Reluctant to go no huddle or up tempo because the other offense is struggling.
Playing afraid and scared vs no name crap QBs.

Steeler Nation mobile app
Click to expand...

Defense aside, I think correcting those two in bold would have overcome anything the defense did this season and are the two biggest reasons for underachieving this year. Which is why Haley was the first to go.
 
antdrewjosh said:
I didnt like neither of the 4th down calls and i hated the onside kick. You have formational issues with his coaching i do too.. i hate the empty set on goal line and short yardage situations. I dont like that he doesnt let defensive guys have a opportunity to return kicks etc etc..

None of this has to do with what im bitching about.. Anything remotely good about this team gets attributed to someone else anyone else. Anything bad is all Tomlin. Everything. Its annoying.
Click to expand...
Those are my main gripe points on Tomlin, and why I say those are things he needs to and can fix about himself.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
antdrewjosh said:
And of course everything leads back to him..well unless of course its SOMETHING good then no it doesnt.
Click to expand...

Right - there are some things for which I think this is true, like player development and drafting. I think Tomlin is more invested in the defense than in the offense. I think our defensive players often do not develop. So I partially blame him for those bad things. Is it drafting? Development?
Both? I don't know. But either way, I look at him for that.

But because he is NOT more invested in the offense, I attribute the development of the players on the other side of the ball mostly to other guys. He gets some credit sure for overseeing it all, but everyone seems to at least agree that the player development on offense is not something he involves himself in too much. It's not bias or unfair, it could just be how things are. And given that I often do not agree with his approaches on other things, it's not difficult for me to believe that he is more involved with the defense and therefore deserving of some blame for the shittiness of many of our defensive players.

I will give him credit when the team takes an aggressive offensive stance and gets a touchdown or wins a game because of it. That's him. But I won't give him credit for player development, which is what I'm referring to
 
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slashsteel said:
I would think a lot of people feel he needs to adjust some parts of his approach. Coming up short repeatably will earn him those viewpoints.

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Click to expand...

But its only our opinion of what those things should be..the 2-4-5 that Coryea hates is practically our base defense.. and using it the majority of the time we were 5th in total defense.

I hate to see us come out in empty sets in short yardage i done blame it for all that is wrong with our offense cause i hate it
 
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AggieSteel said:
Right - there are some things for which I think this is true, like player development and drafting. I think Tomlin is more invested in the defense than in the offense. I think our defensive players often do not develop. So I partially blame him for those bad things. Is it drafting? Development?
Both? I don't know. But either way, I look at him for that.

But because he is NOT more invested in the offense, I attribute the development of the players on the other side of the ball mostly to other guys. He gets some credit sure for overseeing it all, but everyone seems to at least agree that the player development on offense is not something he involves himself in too much. It's not bias or unfair, it could just be how things are. And given that I often do not agree with his approaches on other things, it's not difficult for me to believe that he is more involved with the defense and therefore deserving of some blame for the shittiness of many of our defensive players.

I will give him credit when the team takes an aggressive offensive stance and gets a touchdown or wins a game because of it. That's him. But I won't give him credit for player development, which is what I'm referring to
Click to expand...

I dont agree with that and dont see how anyone can make that assumption.
 
AggieSteel said:
Right - there are some things for which I think this is true, like player development and drafting. I think Tomlin is more invested in the defense than in the offense. I think our defensive players often do not develop. So I partially blame him for those bad things. Is it drafting? Development?
Both? I don't know. But either way, I look at him for that.

But because he is NOT more invested in the offense, I attribute the development of the players on the other side of the ball mostly to other guys. He gets some credit sure for overseeing it all, but everyone seems to at least agree that the player development on offense is not something he involves himself in too much. It's not bias or unfair, it could just be how things are. And given that I often do not agree with his approaches on other things, it's not difficult for me to believe that he is more involved with the defense and therefore deserving of some blame for the shittiness of many of our defensive players.

I will give him credit when the team takes an aggressive offensive stance and gets a touchdown or wins a game because of it. That's him. But I won't give him credit for player development, which is what I'm referring to
Click to expand...

I dont agree with that and dont see how anyone can make that assumption.

Tomlin is the fifth head coach for Darrius Heyward-Bey.

“He has his hands in everything. He touches everything,” the veteran receiver said. “He's not just going to tell the offensive coordinator, ‘You have that.' Because he knows what defenses do to stop us. He knows defense because that's what he does. He does special teams. Other coaches don't do that.”

http://triblive.com/sports/columnis...m-of-steelers-mike-tomlin-has-been-ridiculous
 
antdrewjosh said:
But its only our opinion of what those things should be..the 2-4-5 that Coryea hates is pratically our base defense.. and using it the majority of the time we were 5th in total defense.

I hate to see us come out in empry sets in short yardage i done blame it for all that is wrong with our offense cause i hate it
Click to expand...

Well Rooney addressed the run issues in his interview today, so it isn't just our opinion. He said their was times the run D is soft and that isn't Steeler football. So I am sure the schematics is being looked at, as well as bringing in some run stuff capable players in free agency and the draft. Also touched on continue to develop the young players on our team.

In other words the development phase of the team needs to improve. And we all know who headlines that, as well as signing off on the scheme.

I think they have already started heading in the right direction to fix some issues. With more experienced coaches.
 
slashsteel said:
Well Rooney addressed the run issues in his interview today, so it isn't just our opinion. He said their was times the run D is soft and that isn't Steeler football. So I am sure the schematics is being looked at, as well as bringing in some run stuff capable players in free agency and the draft. Also touched on continue to develop the young players on our team.

In other words the development phase of the team needs to improve. And we all know who headlines that, as well as signing off on the scheme.

I think they have already started heading in the right direction to fix some issues. With more experienced coaches.
Click to expand...

And i agree its soft but is that schematics or better players?? And again im not saying i like it..i would love to see a 3-3-5 look myself but that doest make me right. And i dont see Tomlin as a we playing this scheme and nobody else has a say type. If that was the case maybe he fires Lebeau from jump. Im saying the defensive staff must agree that the 2-4-5 is the way to go..
 
antdrewjosh said:
And i agree its soft but is that schematics or better players?? And again im not saying i like it..i would love to see a 3-3-5 look myself but that doest make me right. And i dont see Tomlin as a we playing this scheme and nobody else has a say type. If that was the case maybe he fires Lebeau from jump. Im saying the defensive staff must agree that the 2-4-5 is the way to go..
Click to expand...

I think this is one situation it isn't one or another but both.

They have been tweaking their scheme a significant amount. And sometimes you spread yourself thin, looking for answers. Hopefully with a season tweaking they found some of those answers.

And players need to improve either by being replaced or by fixing what things need tweaking in their game.

Watt should be better year two. And has plenty of room to improve. I think Mitchell gets replaced and a replacement is brought in to unfortunately replace Shazier. Second promising ILBer career cut short to injury. He at least lasted longer than Kendrell. I think his loss was significant enough to make all those D issues seem just a little bigger. Hopefully they can somehow find a player somewhat capable.
 
I think we all agree its time this team put up or shut up..
 
I remember when Steeler fans would howl with derision at teams who flouted their regular season records as proof of their greatness. Now we're them...let that sink in old timers.
 
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