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According To PG. Tomlin micromanaged Defense. & Changes are happening from Rooney

Black & Gold Bleeder said:
yeah? no **** you are so anti what anyone else says,,, youre exhausting to read
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Cause i dont think the way you want me to...they have an ignore feature for that. Problem solved.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
nah,, don't think so highly of yourself. You just like to argue.
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Whos arguing?? We can go back and forth.. like i said just put me on ignore. According to you, you arent missing anything
 
I commend antdrewjosh for at least sticking to his guns and providing some good debate. Our philosophies are just different and we see the team and the game differently. Not worth rehashing the same things over and over and getting nowhere...I don't think either of us would convince the other of being right. Agree to disagree and rep to you.
 
Same to you Nitsuj
 
antdrewjosh said:
Im a bad poster because i choose to judge what i see vs what i can speculate on. I put more onus what i can see.. drop ball i dont blame the WR coach. Overthrown ball i dont say what the **** was the QB coach doing all week..team gives up an opening drive TD i dont automatically say oh they werent prepared.
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Def disagree with that guy that you're a bad poster.. you're one of the best posters here. Disagreeing with you doesn't make you "bad" in my eyes, because I enjoy the debate.

Now on to the debate part lol. Yes for a dropped ball I def don't blame the WR coach. However, if our receivers developed a habit or trend of dropping passes regularly, and throughout the depth chart, then I'd look at the WR coach. Luckily, our WRs have consistently performed above expectations for years, so due to that trend, I think our position coaching there has been stellar. Conversely, I look at the DB coach and LB coaches from last year when our guys in the back end seemed to be lost in space somewhere in so many huge plays given up to opposing offenses. Not just one or two blown coverages or assignments. But regular blown plays, miscommunications, week after week never cleaned up, and no player in that unit was immune. That screams coaching to me. So I def do not start making judgments about coaches until I see what is regularly happening.

So my biggest beef with our current coach has *always* been our team's predictable inability to get up for relatively less interesting games on the schedule. I've been calling it out for years so for me it's not a matter of one guy making a mistake one time. It's a trend that lasts several years and much roster turnover. It has to be coaching. Usually it affects us in September or October, hurts our playoff positioning down the line, and then we get ousted in a difficult matchup in the playoffs that could have been more favorable had we won more easy games earlier on. But this year, that mentality seeped into an actual playoff game and that is just beyond inexcusable. Just downright disrespectful to the opponent, disappointing to the players who arguably deserved a better outcome, and to the fans who are helpless to do anything but watch another potentially amazing season go down the drain into the black box of former seasons that ended up going nowhere and will be barely remembered at all except for underachievement.
 
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-Running zone against the Pats in every game before this season...not sure why it took 4-5 games of fail to realize this was the right scheme. I give the coaches props for this seasons scheme against the Pats. I don't know how you can't see that scheme made a huge difference in that game as well.
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I agree with AJ more than I disagree with him (even after i found out he is black.

I have addressed this one item a few times, but I will do so again:

-Running zone against the Pats in every game before this season...not sure why it took 4-5 games of fail to realize this was the right scheme. I give the coaches props for this seasons scheme against the Pats. I don't know how you can't see that scheme made a huge difference in that game as well.
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The domination of the Steelers by the Brady/*'s did not start with Tomlin. Going back to 2002, the Steelers have beaten the Brady led *'s twice. Once by Cowher's team and once by Tomlin's. If you look at the average points scored by the two coaches' teams, you'd expect that Cowher's would be significantly better. I don't think any of us think that the current defenses are better than most of Cowher's. However, the average points scored by the *'s over the five games against Cowher defenses is 27.6, while against Tomlin lead defenses, it is 30.33. Less than 3 points. And this is while the NFL had made it harder (started during the end of Cowher's tenur, but has ramped up since) and harder to play against the exact kind of Offense the *'s run AND while the *'s are cheating against both coaches.

This is not to compare Cowher and Tomlin. As I said, I don't think anyone would argue against the statement that, in general, Cowher put together better defensive plans. However, we have been seeing the exact same complaints over the last several years and, in all practical results are the same. The *'s are going to score 24-27 points. The *;'s against Cowher's better defenses scored 24,30,20,41,23. In the last four games against the STeelers, the *'s have scored 27,36,27 and 28. So, the "better" scheme everyone wanted kept them to 27, better than the prior year), but, in reality, had the same results as the two years before that with the dreaded zone.

Now, ignore all of the above. Other teams are playing different defensive schemes with different talent in different places. Some with, certainly better pass rushers at times and others with better DB's and, quite Obviously, better coaches than our ****-flinging-monkeys. They more successful than we have been, correct? But, they are not.

These teams might not let Gronk score 3 TD's in a game, but the *'s are STILL scoring 24-27 points PER GAME on a regular basis. you have to go back to 2009 before you find a year in which the *'s are not in the top 4 teams in poings PER GAME. In 2009, they were at 26.7 points PER GAME. Last year, they were at 28.6.

No other team in the NFL can stop the *'s on a regular basis. Some teams have had success occasionally, but none on a regular basis, except, maybe, the Broncos. This article from 2016 shows that the Billicheck lead *'s have a winning record versus every team in the NFL, except 3 (GB, NYG and DEN). Really, the ontly one of those to have played them enough to say they won on a "regular basis" is DEN at 9-9.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...iots-have-a-winning-record-vs-every-nfl-team/

So, if it is so easy as to just change the scheme, why doesn't everyone do it and have consistent success? Besides the obvious answer of that they are cheating sacks of ****, all of this should show that, whether the D is man-to-man, 3-3-5, 2-4-5, zone or whatever, the results end up, basically, the same. The *'s are going to score 24-27 points. If you hold them to under, you have had a good, fairly rare day, and it isn't likely to happen the next time.

You MUST score 27+ points to beat them. What your D does via scheme may not be the most relevant part of whether you win the game. Do we WANT them to play better? Sure. Realistically, though, better players and better schemes have ended up with similar results in almost all cases.
 
I hope the PER GAME references don't confuse anyone. This doesn't mean in A game. It, in this context, means that, if you look at the season as a whole and divide the total by the number of games played in the season, you get what is called an "average PER GAME". This can be confusing.

While the "average PER GAME" isn't the be all end all of the statistics with regard to points, over a longer period of time i can be useful. it is understood (by most people) that, over a shorter period of time, one game of a high number of points scored can skew the results.
 
nitsuj1225 said:
Is this even a question? Of course the Eagles winning. I actually liked most of the players and coaches on the team, it's the fans that I can't stand. I will say they handled the win better than I thought though.
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That's cool that you got over your Philly bias from living there... ;)

Glad your classmates are happy as well! I guess the hate runs too strong also on the Pats side. I'm guilty of that as well...
 
Excellent Debate guys, I've been staying out of it, because all the points are being hit on both sides. But I always see talent/scheme as a chicken/egg scenario.

Your scheme can improve the chance of success with the talent you have.
Your talent can overcome deficiencies in scheme.
 
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Cope said:
Excellent Debate guys, I've been staying out of it, because all the points are being hit on both sides. But I always see talent/scheme as a chicken/egg scenario.

Your scheme can improve the chance of success with the talent you have.
Your talent can overcome deficiencies in scheme.
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One of the complaints ive had with some Coordinators (not just here). They install their scheme and run it, regardless of the personell/talent they have. Figure out what parts of the talent you have fit what parts of your scheme, then change the rest of your scbeme.
 
ark steel said:
One of the complaints ive had with some Coordinators (not just here). They install their scheme and run it, regardless of the personell/talent they have. Figure out what parts of the talent you have fit what parts of your scheme, then change the rest of your scbeme.
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Doug Pederson did just that, when he jettisoned all those players of Chip Kellys. Or maybe that was pat shurmer. . However he kept foles and it turned out to be a good decision.

But a lot of people thought they were crazy.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Doug Pederson did just that, when he jettisoned all those players of Chip Kellys. Or maybe that was pat shurmer. . However he kept foles and it turned out to be a good decision.

But a lot of people thought they were crazy.
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Actually Foles was with Pederson in Kansas City after being cut by the Rams. He backed up Smith. The eagles signed him to backup Wentz this year.
 
steelhurt said:
You are right now!


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How someone who im not talking too can feel im arguing when the person im going back with doesnt is beyond me. There werent harsh words directed at anyone. He feels the way he does and so do i. And again just put me on ignore if i offend you.
 
Country style PORK ribs,.......it's what's for breakfast. Maybe I'll have a little BEACON to with that.!!!!!



**** the tato tots.......they take up to much room so NOW I will have beacon and a lot of it !!!!!!!!!!!






Salute the nation
 
antdrewjosh said:
How someone who im not talking too can feel im arguing when the person im going back with doesnt is beyond me. There werent harsh words directed at anyone. He feels the way he does and so do i. And again just put me on ignore if i offend you.
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It’s just simply my opinion to think you were arguing. We all have our opinions on this board, correct?


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slashsteel said:
Yes sorry scheme does matter. It is a combination of that and execution and putting the players in a position to succeed. If your scheme doesn't fit your talent, there will be issues. Like getting run on, or passed on. etc. They changed the scheme and beat the pats, if that isn't evidence nothing is. BTW they did beat them, it took refs to change the outcome.
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I’m with you on this Slash. Scheme certainly does matter and that is what it’s all about with Belichick and his Pats. There is no riddle wrapped in an enigma to figure out with what he’s doing. He simply develops the scheme to fit the talents of his current roster and as mentioned from some of his former players, they practice it and continue to practice it until the execution is damn near flawless.
In addition to that he has his team in the game for the entire 60 minutes and again some former players have made mention that they only look ahead to their next opponent.
He never has the best of talent but what he does is to utilize and maximize the talent they do have and put them in the best position to execute the game plan successfully.
I think that Cool Shades really should take a chapter from Belichick’s book and start applying it to this football team.


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Tomlins biggest issue isn't that he's not a good coach because he is, but he's stubborn, prideful, whatever you want to call it. He's reluctant to get away from his game plan and thinks we do what we do is going to be enough to win.

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We continue to let value time with Ben slip by because of this coach’s arrogance, stubbornness, not wanting to change. Who knows how long it will take to get the next franchise QB. It took over 20 seasons of forgettable QBs before we got Ben.
That’s my concern with Tomlin and his reluctant to change. It’s costing us valuable time.


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