Yes, it is only practice...

[Coach]

I had not noticed the comment, no. Thanks for pointing it out.

To the Oliver thing first...As I said above, I have no dog in that fight and don't care if Oliver busts or goes HoF. I just got a kick out of the thread and decided to watch him to see what all the hub bub was about and shared what I saw. What can I say, I enjoy watching tape and this is the first year I have been able to in a while so it was a chance to do it.

I've not done a deep dive on film with Davis in preseason or in past years so my view is the same broadcast view as everyone elses. That said, Davis is definitely in a Show Me year. Physically, he is strong enough and fast enough but the guy has been bounced around positions in a defense that has been a wreck the last couple of years (for various reasons). His rookie year, I saw a guy who could hit and make solid tackles but was learning NFL coverage. I was quite surprised by (and disappointed with) his regression his second year. He was moved to a new position and I expect mistakes with that, but his tackling and hitting fundamentals went to ****. Sadly, that was true about the entire team. Davis also had shoulder surgery before that season. Thump your chest all you want about tough guys, but full recovery from surgery is harder than most people realize (this I know all too well). I suspect his issues were in part due to that but also in part to a defense that, as a whole, did not tackle for ****. I actually laid much of that years defense on coaching. I don't know if it was changes to scheme or lack of focus on fundamentals in practice or what. But fundamentals across the entire defense was suspect that season but no arguing he regressed.

For 2018, there is a bit of a larger picture to consider. Davis was moving to his third spot in 3 years, but not just any position. He was moved to the Defender of Last Resort if you will. That means a lot of his role is mopping up when things break down in other places. The result is a lot of times it looks like he is coming over late or out of position when he really isn't. He is coming over to clean up someone else's mess (not always, but a lot of times). Well, what was around him? We had no replacement for Shaz so that means coverage issues in the middle. TJ and Bud flipped sides (for the better, but it is still a change). Burns was awful and Davis had a rookie starter beside him. That left a lot of areas where mopping up would be needed. Especially one - I felt Davis looked a lot better when Burns was not on the field. That is not a film based read...just a casual observation. Anyway, not making excuses for the guy, he left plenty on the field on his own. I am just saying it wasn't as bad as folks might think because a lot of times he was the mop man on Aisle 4 and not the guy who dropped the Garlic and Herb Prego jar in the first place. He did show some improvement in fundamentals as the season went on, but not where I thought he was at the end of his rookie year. In other words, the needle was going back up, but not there yet.

So, for this year. Nelson is in for Burns. Edmunds is looking like an absolute beast in preseason. Bush and Barron add much needed speed in the middle. There are signs the pass rush will be better. And, the guy is in his second year in the same spot. There is nothing standing in his way to a good year and make no mistake, it is a show me year for him. He is actually one of the guys high on my "watch" list for the season; it is a prove it year for him. I still see him as more of a physical/tackler type baller than cover guy despite his experience at CB. I don't see him as a ball hawk and I don't think the team is going to ask him to be that. I do think we will see a much better defense this year and a much better Davis. He is never going to be a HoF or likely even Pro Bowl. But most guys aren't and that doesn't mean they suck either.

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader. To some people here, you are the new TMC. That was meant as a compliment if you had no clue of who he was.


We have seen Daivs in enough games.


The book on him is this. Davis is not a good coverage person, and his ball skills are below average. He takes bad angles to the ball and leads the team in missed tackles. Often when a pass comes his way, the receiver catches it without much of a problem. You could say he's a better athlete than safety. The only thing he's good at is the blitz, but paying FS he's not going to get a chance, and its clear Edmunds as a rookie had already passed Davis.


Davis is a poor last line of defense.


On Oliver, I watched games worth of his downs. He's a poor pass rusher. He's undersized and can be overpowered by a center alone. Most of his sacks, in fact all three of them came vs. terrible opposition last season. Could be a liability vs the run in the NFL. He's a 4-3 gap shooter, that's his role. Not a NT, and certainly not a DE. The fact that he failed to secure an assisted tackle or tackle in 4 pre-season games tells me he's having issues with the bigger and better NFL players, which is what I predicted.

 

[Coach]

Very much looking forward to September 8, 2019 at 5:20 p.m. Pittsburgh Steelers Time. Let's see how they do against the greatest dink-and-dunk passer of all time.

This year we have players to cover the the dink and dunk. This year, we should. If the Steelers coaches are smart they uses Samules a lot. He ripped them a new one last year. Gronk is gone. And he killed us. Play tighter man, Our pass rush looks as good as ever and New England's OL has injuries.

Don't look now, but New England doesn't match up as well vs. us as they used to. However they will have the coaching edge over us until Hoodie retires.

 

[slashsteel]

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader. To some people here, you are the new TMC. That was meant as a compliment if you had no clue of who he was.


We have seen Daivs in enough games.


The book on him is this. Davis is not a good coverage person, and his ball skills are below average. He takes bad angles to the ball and leads the team in missed tackles. Often when a pass comes his way, the receiver catches it without much of a problem. You could say he's a better athlete than safety. The only thing he's good at is the blitz, but paying FS he's not going to get a chance, and its clear Edmunds as a rookie had already passed Davis.


Davis is a poor last line of defense.


On Oliver, I watched games worth of his downs. He's a poor pass rusher. He's undersized and can be overpowered by a center alone. Most of his sacks, in fact all three of them came vs. terrible opposition last season. Could be a liability vs the run in the NFL. He's a 4-3 gap shooter, that's his role. Not a NT, and certainly not a DE. The fact that he failed to secure an assisted tackle or tackle in 4 pre-season games tells me he's having issues with the bigger and better NFL players, which is what I predicted.

You love to try to make your opinion fact. Far from it. And nobody here needs a leader twatwaffle. What we need is for you to step away from your agenda and buy a clue.


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[CoolieMan]

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader. To some people here, you are the new TMC. That was meant as a compliment if you had no clue of who he was.


We have seen Daivs in enough games.


The book on him is this. Davis is not a good coverage person, and his ball skills are below average. He takes bad angles to the ball and leads the team in missed tackles. Often when a pass comes his way, the receiver catches it without much of a problem. You could say he's a better athlete than safety. The only thing he's good at is the blitz, but paying FS he's not going to get a chance, and its clear Edmunds as a rookie had already passed Davis.


Davis is a poor last line of defense.


On Oliver, I watched games worth of his downs. He's a poor pass rusher. He's undersized and can be overpowered by a center alone. Most of his sacks, in fact all three of them came vs. terrible opposition last season. Could be a liability vs the run in the NFL. He's a 4-3 gap shooter, that's his role. Not a NT, and certainly not a DE. The fact that he failed to secure an assisted tackle or tackle in 4 pre-season games tells me he's having issues with the bigger and better NFL players, which is what I predicted.

bullshit...you watched a few downs from a couple of games...I have posted his games against OU and Lousiville a few times...he had multiple sacks in both

I have told you many many times he was forced into the NT role at UH due to injuries on the DL....his role in the NFL is likely right where he has been so far, a 3 technique.

You have not watched a single down of his NFL work and you want to make assumptions about his ability. Get the **** over yourself you little ********.

you also predicted he wouldn't go in the Top 10...you were wrong about that also

as for Davis...most understand it is extremely difficult to truly see what goes on in the secondary from the normal telecast of games, they are not on the screen until the ball is close so you don't see how the play developed and who truly ****** up.

no one here needs a leader...we need more posters like TMC who took the time to really analyse what players could really do. Unlike many here who base their opinions on highlights or what other sites post about players....

 

[Coach]

bullshit...you watched a few downs from a couple of games...I have posted his games against OU and Lousiville a few times...he had multiple sacks in both

I have told you many many times he was forced into the NT role at UH due to injuries on the DL....his role in the NFL is likely right where he has been so far, a 3 technique.

You have not watched a single down of his NFL work and you want to make assumptions about his ability. Get the **** over yourself you little ********.

as for Davis...most understand it is extremely difficult to truly see what goes on in the secondary from the normal telecast of games, they are not on the screen until the ball is close so you don't see how the play developed and who truly ****** up.

no one here needs a leader...we need more posters like TMC who took the time to really analyse what players could really do. Unlike many here who base their opinions on highlights or what other sites post about players....

You ie little man . I went through games of him playing, more than one. Check the archives

 

[CoolieMan]

You ie little man . I went through games of him playing, more than one. Check the archives

you analyzed about 8 plays from one game and you were wrong about almost everything that happened. You watched the game with your anti-coolie glasses on and it showed. Plus the fact you couldn't recognize talent if it slapped you in the face...or do I have to point out your thoughts on a certain Steeler safety and his head size?

I have said many times my views on Oliver may be slanted based on him being a player on my favorite college team....but I try to be open minded about him unlike others

 

[Steelworth]

And nobody here needs a leader twatwaffle. What we need is for you to step away from your agenda and buy a clue.

Yeah WTF is this tool blathering on about? Some guys here need a leader? A leader of what? I think you take yourself and message boards a little too seriously.

 

[Irondiesel58]

What's a twatWaffle? I want one!! [emoji23]

you analyzed about 8 plays from one game and you were wrong about almost everything that happened. You watched the game with your anti-coolie glasses on and it showed. Plus the fact you couldn't recognize talent if it slapped you in the face...or do I have to point out your thoughts on a certain Steeler safety and his head size?

I have said many times my views on Oliver may be slanted based on him being a player on my favorite college team....but I try to be open minded about him unlike others

Sent from my SM-J700T using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[CoolieMan]

What's a twatWaffle? I want one!! [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-J700T using Steeler Nation mobile app

coach is a twatwaffle....do you really want one of those???

 

[Ike Kelly]

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader. To some people here, you are the new TMC. That was meant as a compliment if you had no clue of who he was.


We have seen Daivs in enough games.


The book on him is this. Davis is not a good coverage person, and his ball skills are below average. He takes bad angles to the ball and leads the team in missed tackles. Often when a pass comes his way, the receiver catches it without much of a problem. You could say he's a better athlete than safety. The only thing he's good at is the blitz, but paying FS he's not going to get a chance, and its clear Edmunds as a rookie had already passed Davis.


Davis is a poor last line of defense.


On Oliver, I watched games worth of his downs. He's a poor pass rusher. He's undersized and can be overpowered by a center alone. Most of his sacks, in fact all three of them came vs. terrible opposition last season. Could be a liability vs the run in the NFL. He's a 4-3 gap shooter, that's his role. Not a NT, and certainly not a DE. The fact that he failed to secure an assisted tackle or tackle in 4 pre-season games tells me he's having issues with the bigger and better NFL players, which is what I predicted.

Opinion vs fact meter.

In quotation above is rhetoric from Coach. Below are facts about Coach.

Predicted a 1st round pick and future HOF (Polamalu) wouldn’t make it in the league because “his head is too big”

Admits he doesn’t watch games.

Predicted Matthew Thomas 18 months ago would be “something special”. Currently unsigned. After being cut by two teams.

Wagered incessantly that Ed Oliver would not be a 2019 top ten draft pick and lost.

Was whipped like a 3 year old on every single argument when discussing player evaluations with the aforementioned TMC.



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[Steeltime]

Opinion vs fact meter.

In quotation above is rhetoric from Coach. Below are facts about Coach.

Predicted a 1st round pick and future HOF (Polamalu) wouldn’t make it in the league because “his head is too big”

If I recall correctly, Coach protested that Troy was too small to be a top-tier safety. When another poster pointed out that Troy was 5'11", good enough, Coach opined that a good deal of Troy's height was due to his large cranium, so that he was in reality more of a guy who played at 5'9".

That is where the whole "head is too big" thing came from.

And if you think my post somehow "backs up" Coach ... read it again.

 

[Hoot]

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader. To some people here, you are the new TMC. That was meant as a compliment if you had no clue of who he was.


We have seen Daivs in enough games.


The book on him is this. Davis is not a good coverage person, and his ball skills are below average. He takes bad angles to the ball and leads the team in missed tackles. Often when a pass comes his way, the receiver catches it without much of a problem. You could say he's a better athlete than safety. The only thing he's good at is the blitz, but paying FS he's not going to get a chance, and its clear Edmunds as a rookie had already passed Davis.


Davis is a poor last line of defense.


On Oliver, I watched games worth of his downs. He's a poor pass rusher. He's undersized and can be overpowered by a center alone. Most of his sacks, in fact all three of them came vs. terrible opposition last season. Could be a liability vs the run in the NFL. He's a 4-3 gap shooter, that's his role. Not a NT, and certainly not a DE. The fact that he failed to secure an assisted tackle or tackle in 4 pre-season games tells me he's having issues with the bigger and better NFL players, which is what I predicted.

thanks for the compliment. I have no idea who TMC is/was. I am not looking to be anyone but me.

Davis is not a ball hawk; I said that. As to angles, again, a lot of times he was playing mop up but I also said he left some things on the field. Angles are part of tackling and fundamentals which I mentioned quite clearly. He regressed from his first year. The physical skills are there, but he hasn't put it all together on the field yet. I listed some potential reasons for that, but bottom line is the guy has to put it together this year. That is what I mean by "Prove It" year. You may have closed the book on him. That is fine - its a message/opinion board.

With Oliver...I watched 13 preseason plays. He did not make tackles on those 13 plays, but it wasn't because of lack of skill or physical assets on his part. He wasn't supposed to be the tackler on those plays. He played his lanes per basic scheme for a 43 defense and the Bills ran a basic 43 scheme.

Not sure why you are trying to tell me he isn't an NT or a DE. I never suggested any positional molds or changes for him. Maybe that was part of the debate you had with others. Don't know - I wasn't here for it and don't really care. What he did do on the plays I watched was line up on the outside shade of the OG. That is what 3-Technique means..outside shoulder of the OG. In a 43 Base, the job a 3-technique is to fill the B gap. Or be a "shooter" as you put it. At anyrate, I assume you are tossing NT and DE out there to state that he couldn't play a 2 gap peek and shed responsibility which was probably part of your disagreement with others. Doesn't matter to me - I gave my commentary of his play in the scheme he is in. I offered zero opinions on if he could play other positions or schemes. I haven't seen nearly enough of him to offer such an opinion. I saw a guy who did play the 3-technique the way it is supposed to be played in the base 43. The tackle stat you keep tossing out is nice to bolster your opinion, but it has nothing to do with his in game responsibilities. No coach at any level looks at tackling stats to determine if the player is doing a good job or not. If you want to hang your hat on that, go right ahead, but it means little to me. If you want to look at plays and discuss performance then I am all for it. I love watching film and I love X's and O's (I am sure that is obvious).

I didn't see anything to suggest the kid isn't strong, but he is a rook who hasn't had a year in an NFL weight program. These guys..even first rounders...have a development cycle in both mind and body. The kid is strong enough for where he is in that development path and he is going to get stronger.

 

[CoolieMan]

Hoot, Oliver played NT at UH and I think someone here or it might have been some talking head that suggested maybe he could move to DE....but coach loves to make pronouncements over and over again even if no one is arguing the point.

At the combine Oliver did something like 32 reps on the bench press...I'm not sure of the exact number...but it was enough to show he was plenty strong enough for a DL in the NFL

Oliver's main issue, even at UH was getting away from blockers after the got their hands on him...He needs to work on that to excel at this level. He is plenty strong and fast enough to excel at this level, he stays low and usually is able to make first contact..he just needs to learn to keep the OL hands off of him and shed those blocks

coach loves stats even if they don't mean ****. IMO if a DL ties up two blockers and the LB behind him roams free and makes the tackle, the DL did his job. If the DL holds his spot and blocks his gap and the RB bounces the play outside...the DL did his job. There are no stats to support that so coach takes that as a bad play by the DL...

 

[Tibs]

Coolie I gotta give you props for your enduring homerism for UH players over the years, it really is a sight to behold.

Having said that, Oliver looks like a good one.

 

[Superman]

WTF is Samules and what position does he play on defense?

 

[Hoot]

Hoot, Oliver played NT at UH and I think someone here or it might have been some talking head that suggested maybe he could move to DE....but coach loves to make pronouncements over and over again even if no one is arguing the point.

At the combine Oliver did something like 32 reps on the bench press...I'm not sure of the exact number...but it was enough to show he was plenty strong enough for a DL in the NFL

Oliver's main issue, even at UH was getting away from blockers after the got their hands on him...He needs to work on that to excel at this level. He is plenty strong and fast enough to excel at this level, he stays low and usually is able to make first contact..he just needs to learn to keep the OL hands off of him and shed those blocks

coach loves stats even if they don't mean ****. IMO if a DL ties up two blockers and the LB behind him roams free and makes the tackle, the DL did his job. If the DL holds his spot and blocks his gap and the RB bounces the play outside...the DL did his job. There are no stats to support that so coach takes that as a bad play by the DL...

Yea, he is plenty strong enough. The difference on his initial pop vs. the guy who came in after him was obvious. 32 is a good set of reps with 225 although that is also as much about muscle endurance as it is raw power. Anyway, interesting you make the point about hands in college; I never saw him play in school. It does match what I watched. He needs to learn some hand fighting. On one play he did rip across the face of the guard to make a play so he can do it. It will take some time to learn and those O-Lineman are pretty well trained to deal with it too. It will take time. Kid is going to be okay. It is just preseason...right now they want to make sure he handles the base gap responsibility. He did. They will add more as masters what he has been given.

The job varies from scheme, but you are right. He has to maintain his gap control. In a base 4-3 the job is to get into the gap and stuff the ISO or Dive play. Not one ISO or Dive play at his lane during the time I watched. The two most telling plays about him were the one I said about ripping across the guards face and either his first or second play where the 25 bootleg keeper when he maintained his "Slide" down the line to ensure the RB is spilled into Run Force man or the sidelines while preventing any cutback. No stat covers that but doesn't mean he didn't do his job.

 

[CoolieMan]

WTF is Samules and what position does he play on defense?

he plays next to Larry Donald

 

[Tibs]

I like your stuff, and some guys here need a leader.

 

[Steelworth]

he plays next to Larry Donald

And in front of Kelly Kameron.

 

[CoolieMan]

Coolie I gotta give you props for your enduring homerism for UH players over the years, it really is a sight to behold.

Having said that, Oliver looks like a good one.

tibs, I pimped the guys I watch the most...I watch other games but don't get to see those guys play every week. I see every UH game and most I DVR so I can watch them later to see how key players perform.

 

[Tibs]

tibs, I pimped the guys I watch the most...I watch other games but don't get to see those guys play every week. I see every UH game and most I DVR so I can watch them later to see how key players perform.

I get it man, meant no disrespect. Purely from a Steelers fan perspective, I'm mindful of the fact there are 130 major college football programs, any of which could provide the next wave of players to join our ranks. We get a front row seat to UH players on the board from you, and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact, I appreciate your insight.

/edit - just wanted to add, I've been a fan of several UH players coming into the draft over the years, including Stanford Routt, Ayers, Jackson III, Bowser and most recently Isaiah Johnson and of course, Ed Oliver. The fact my brother lives in Houston may have something to do with that as well.

 

[CoolieMan]

Yea, he is plenty strong enough. The difference on his initial pop vs. the guy who came in after him was obvious. 32 is a good set of reps with 225 although that is also as much about muscle endurance as it is raw power. Anyway, interesting you make the point about hands in college; I never saw him play in school. It does match what I watched. He needs to learn some hand fighting. On one play he did rip across the face of the guard to make a play so he can do it. It will take some time to learn and those O-Lineman are pretty well trained to deal with it too. It will take time. Kid is going to be okay. It is just preseason...right now they want to make sure he handles the base gap responsibility. He did. They will add more as masters what he has been given.

The job varies from scheme, but you are right. He has to maintain his gap control. In a base 4-3 the job is to get into the gap and stuff the ISO or Dive play. Not one ISO or Dive play at his lane during the time I watched. The two most telling plays about him were the one I said about ripping across the guards face and either his first or second play where the 25 bootleg keeper when he maintained his "Slide" down the line to ensure the RB is spilled into Run Force man or the sidelines while preventing any cutback. No stat covers that but doesn't mean he didn't do his job.

as I've said before, I've seen every game the kid played at UH. I was at his very first game as a true Freshman and I knew UH had signed a 5 Star kid but I didn't know much about him. It was obvious watching his #10 make plays all over the field that he was going to be a player.

I started pimping him here just prior to his 2nd year at UH.

 

[CoolieMan]

I get it man, meant no disrespect. Purely from a Steelers fan perspective, I'm mindful of the fact there are 130 major college football programs, any of which could provide the next wave of players to join our ranks. We get a front row seat on UH players on the board from you, and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact, I appreciate your insight.

didn't take it as disrespectful. If I had gone somewhere else I would pimp the best guys from there. I know most here don't watch and don't care about non Power 5 football, but since as a UH fan I watch a lot of it. But yeah, the next great NFL star could come from anywhere so why not pimp my guys when I have good reason to...

The fact that coach and omar don't like it just amuses me more

 

[Steelworth]

WTF is Samules and what position does he play on defense?

Maybe he plays next to Daivs?

We have seen Daivs in enough games.

 

[tdub88]

coach you went back and forth on a few of the picks you now claim to have hated, plus we could all list even more picks you hated that were way off.

but you trying to claim a Hall of Fame safety wasn't going to be any good because of his head being too big is your crown jewel.....


but this thread is about something else

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/top-3-things-to-know-from-day-7-at-bills-training-camp

Early in the red zone period, Oliver blew up a pair of linemen to penetrate into the backfield and force Matt Barkley off his spot. Rookie DE Darryl Johnson got the QB pressure on the play to force an incompletion.


Two plays later Oliver beat his lineman in a one-on-one situation and got pressure on Josh Allen before he wanted to get rid of the ball and hurried him into an incompletion.

A series later, Oliver had his play of the day. He used a stab move and knocked the opposing offensive lineman off balance sending him into the center’s legs who also fell on the play and affected the other guard who stumbled as a domino effect was unfolding. The play was effectively blown up from Oliver all on his own.

I think everybody is missing the real story here. Matt Barkley is still getting reps in the NFL? Unbelievable..................