When to throw the red flag

[Vader]

The inherited players argument is weak. you have to coach the players you have, and if that was the case of only winning with inherited players, he should have a losing record by now.

Also all great coaches are linked to a great QB. Every. Single. One. It's a unicorn to have a great coach linked to 2. Only Walsh with Montana and Young. Read the list of SB winners, and all time coaching wins, and it's linked to a QB-Coach tandem Every. Single. Time.

I don't see the argument as weak. Almost every single person on here talk about Switzer and Gruden winning with someone else's talent. So it applies to Tomlin as well since every single SB starter with the exception of TWO was a Cowher player. Hartwig the center and Woodley were the only starters Tomlin had anything to do with. He also had a HOF DC and an established OC. Like Switzer he didn't change anything.

Also are you saying Tomlin is a great coach? Montana/ Young and Walsh is the same as Ben and Tomlin? Seriously? Tomlin has won ONE SB... ONE... 10 years ago. Even though he has had a HOF QB his entire coaching career.... ONE. This isn't some great QB-Coach tandem. It's a great QB dragging a coach along for the ride.

 

[Stryker]

I don't see the argument as weak. Almost every single person on here talk about Switzer and Gruden winning with someone else's talent. So it applies to Tomlin as well since every single SB starter with the exception of TWO was a Cowher player. Hartwig the center and Woodley were the only starters Tomlin had anything to do with. He also had a HOF DC and an established OC. Like Switzer he didn't change anything.

Also are you saying Tomlin is a great coach? Montana/ Young and Walsh is the same as Ben and Tomlin? Seriously? Tomlin has won ONE SB... ONE... 10 years ago. Even though he has had a HOF QB his entire coaching career.... ONE. This isn't some great QB-Coach tandem. It's a great QB dragging a coach along for the ride.

Here's the point with Switzer and Gruden, they won the year after. Tomlin won it year 2 and made it back again year 4. Gruden and Switzer had exponential drop offs after their immediate success. It's a much different argument 11 years later. Tomlin = Seifert. He inherited a HOF QB and succeeded.

No way am I comparing Tomlin to Walsh, Walsh is the gold standard - the only coach to have 2 HOF QBs back to back. There may be one more coach, but I'm lacking. My argument is sound: All great coaches are linked to a great QB. Name one who isn't?

So Green Bay's coach sucks? Only one SB with Rogers, and haven't been to another SB? Tough to win SBs when you have a team in the AFC that stacks the deck and applies questionable strategies. It's not a failing of the Steelers, It's more of what the Pats are doing to the entire conference.

 

[mr peeples]

I would also like to know who the hell is telling him when to challenge. If it's just him, then he's a bigger moron than I thought. Just have someone sit in the booth and watch the damn live feed. It's not that difficult. I'll do it for free. Just pay my travel expenses!

No, you know those challenge calls come from Tomlin's "gut." Just like all those 2 point calls which were not based on logic.

 

[Steelin]

I've cringed watching him throw the flag so many times. Its like dude why in the hell are you challenging that? And then he'll not challenge something that actually has a chance of being overturned. Is it some sort of dyslexia? Why is he still in charge of this? So many questions and all can be answered by the statement that he is in over his head and abilities. Theres really no question in my opinion.

 

[slashsteel]

Here's the point with Switzer and Gruden, they won the year after. Tomlin won it year 2 and made it back again year 4. Gruden and Switzer had exponential drop offs after their immediate success. It's a much different argument 11 years later. Tomlin = Seifert. He inherited a HOF QB and succeeded.

No way am I comparing Tomlin to Walsh, Walsh is the gold standard - the only coach to have 2 HOF QBs back to back. There may be one more coach, but I'm lacking. My argument is sound: All great coaches are linked to a great QB. Name one who isn't?

So Green Bay's coach sucks? Only one SB with Rogers, and haven't been to another SB? Tough to win SBs when you have a team in the AFC that stacks the deck and applies questionable strategies. It's not a failing of the Steelers, It's more of what the Pats are doing to the entire conference.

Some of their fans seem to think so, and throw out some of the same concerns.

As often as I have seen these Tomlin debates there seems to be no middle ground. Tomlin is great, or Tomlin sucks.


I still fall in the middle of this thinking and say Tomlin is good.

But that is as good as it gets.


If you love participation trophies Tomlin is your man.

If you love SB wins or hell even appearances.The two Mike's don't cut it.

I actually like the Green bay reference. Because there is a lot of similarities there.

I will stand by I prefer a X and O coach.

I really do not see the Steelers doing anything more or less due the above mentioned.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Op should hire a poo flinging monkey to make his posts. He'd have better topics, albeit less attention.

I was contacted as YOI know I have a "ONE ARMED **** flinging monkey rental business". An old OC was my main client. In retrospect I turned out to be to expensive for Coach but due to the whom my Monkey had to serve I couldn't reduce my rates due to excessive useage because Coach, once interviewed, showed signs of continuing to have the **** tossed until it stuck on something he agreed with. I never overwork MY Monkeys and I take very good care of them but I felt in this case near total exhaustion wasn't worth the payout.




Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

None of the things he's good at matter very much in being a head coach. Noll and Belichick were terrible at PR and don't believe you need to motivate pro players. I wonder if they are
better coaches than is the Cool Shades?

ALSO...........NOLL and bilicheat were LIGHT YEARS apart. One HONEST and the other a CHEATING muthA ******......!!!!






Salute the nation

 

[Ike Kelly]

I don't see the argument as weak. Almost every single person on here talk about Switzer and Gruden winning with someone else's talent. So it applies to Tomlin as well since every single SB starter with the exception of TWO was a Cowher player. Hartwig the center and Woodley were the only starters Tomlin had anything to do with. He also had a HOF DC and an established OC. Like Switzer he didn't change anything.

Also are you saying Tomlin is a great coach? Montana/ Young and Walsh is the same as Ben and Tomlin? Seriously? Tomlin has won ONE SB... ONE... 10 years ago. Even though he has had a HOF QB his entire coaching career.... ONE. This isn't some great QB-Coach tandem. It's a great QB dragging a coach along for the ride.

Don Shula/Dan Marino would like a say in this....


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Coach]

I've cringed watching him throw the flag so many times. Its like dude why in the hell are you challenging that? And then he'll not challenge something that actually has a chance of being overturned. Is it some sort of dyslexia? Why is he still in charge of this? So many questions and all can be answered by the statement that he is in over his head and abilities. Theres really no question in my opinion.

I know. Its hard to defend Tomlin's actions here.

I took a look at Sean Peyton's red flag challenges.

In the past 29 attempts, Peyton was correct 13 times or 44.8 percent of the time. Let's look at our division.

John Harbaugh is 21-for his last 44 red flag challenges, 47.7 percent correct.

A bit of a contrast to Cool Shady, wouldn't you say?

 

[ark steel]

Mike Tomlin is great at public relations, interviews, motivation, and I'd say administrative bullshit.
He is weak at talent evaluation, in game adjustments, clock management, challenges, and game preparation.

He would make a great PR guy, because he can spew some bullshit.

Talent evaluation?, really? Haven't people been saying we have one of the most prolific or talented offenses in the league, so should be scoring more?

Where did that talent come from?

When you start your analysis with "with this much talent coach X would be winning more". Well, coach X didnt put this talent on the field.

 

[ark steel]

I know. Its hard to defend Tomlin's actions here.

I took a look at Sean Peyton's red flag challenges.

In the past 29 attempts, Peyton was correct 13 times or 44.8 percent of the time. Let's look at our division.

John Harbaugh is 21-for his last 44 red flag challenges, 47.7 percent correct.

A bit of a contrast to Cool Shady, wouldn't you say?

Is john Harbaugh the coach that has his team ranked below SBWHCMVLT in the standings right now?

 

[Vader]

Here's the point with Switzer and Gruden, they won the year after. Tomlin won it year 2 and made it back again year 4. Gruden and Switzer had exponential drop offs after their immediate success. It's a much different argument 11 years later. Tomlin = Seifert. He inherited a HOF QB and succeeded.

No way am I comparing Tomlin to Walsh, Walsh is the gold standard - the only coach to have 2 HOF QBs back to back. There may be one more coach, but I'm lacking. My argument is sound: All great coaches are linked to a great QB. Name one who isn't?

Sorry but you're wrong. Switzer won in his 2nd year. I simply stated that both Switzer (which you are wrong about) and Gruden took teams to the SB and people on here always talk about them saying they took someone else's team and won. Tomlin did the same thing. Just because he had almost the exact same team 2 years after his SB win doesn't change that. He's won nothing in 10 years.

Just BTW Tampa Bay had MORE starters that weren't from the previous HC in Gruden's first year than Tomlin did in his 2nd year when he won the SB. Tomlin did the exact same thing as both of those guys. Just because he's been able to stay longer doesn't change that. He's an ok coach in a great situation.

Also the Steelers haven't lost to the pats*** every year. They lost to Jax last year. They should have lost to the bungles a couple of years ago before the bungles showed who they were. They lost to Denver a couple of years ago as well. They got hammered by the rats in 2012 and 2015. So the idea that the pats*** are the only thing standing from cool shades and unlimited SB wins is a myth. As a matter of fact Tomlin has only lost ONCE to NE in the playoffs because that's as many times as he's seen them.

Also I have no idea about GB. I know they were injury prone for several years and could barely field a healthy DB. But he's won as many SB as Tomlin has but I don't hear anybody talking about him being a great coach. There have been rumblings in GB about changes there too.

 

[ark steel]

That team that tomlin took to the super bowl was so awesome, they went 8-8 the year before he took over...

 

[ark steel]

Id also like to point out that tomlin has beaten Brady/Belichick exactly as many times as Cowher's awesome teams.

 

[Steelers12]

That team that tomlin took to the super bowl was so awesome, they went 8-8 the year before he took over...

Yeah with a QB who had a major facial injury in a motorcycle accident and then appendicitis. One year removed from the 1st Steelers Super Bowl win in 26 years.The team was so loaded that even a mediocre coach like Tomlin could win a Super Bowl with 22 of 24 starters being from that team. Funny we haven't won a single Super Bowl since that awesome 8-8 team.

 

[ark steel]

Yeah with a QB who had a major facial injury in a motorcycle accident and then appendicitis. One year removed from the 1st Steelers Super Bowl win in 26 years.The team was so loaded that even a mediocre coach like Tomlin could win a Super Bowl with 22 of 24 starters being from that team. Funny we haven't won a single Super Bowl since that awesome 8-8 team.

The team was so awesome, missing Ben for 4-6 games shouldnt have made a difference, right? A player that Cowher was, essentially, told to take? Cowher didnt win a super bowl until ben was forced on him.

Excuses are like ********. Everyone has one and they a stink.

 

[mr peeples]

Proof of your love...

Proof of your mental illness.

 

[ark steel]

That team that went to the Sb after the 2005 year got blown out by the *'s allowing 41 points in the 2004 season playoffs.

 

[Vader]

The team was so awesome, missing Ben for 4-6 games shouldnt have made a difference, right? A player that Cowher was, essentially, told to take? Cowher didnt win a super bowl until ben was forced on him.

Excuses are like ********. Everyone has one and they a stink.

Wow just excuse after excuse. Anything to make Tomlin look like he is a great coach. I see people are still making **** up out of thin air. Cowher wasn't forced to take Ben. According to Rooney he steered the conversation back around to Ben and the "Group" made the decision. But of course people like you have to make it sound like Cowher was 100% against it and had to be forced to take him. Which if you listen to Cowher, Rooney and Colbert you'd never get that impression. But making up **** is par for the course for Tomlin apologists.

 

[IndySteel]

I blame Ark for Tomlin sucking so much ***.

But seriously, Cowher won a SB in Ben’s 2nd year. Dumblin has gone 10 straight years with Ben and hasn’t won ****.

 

[LastRide]

I used to always think who the numb skull they had reviewing plays. Its always been bad for the last 20 years..LOL

 

[ark steel]

Wow just excuse after excuse. Anything to make Tomlin look like he is a great coach. I see people are still making **** up out of thin air. Cowher wasn't forced to take Ben. According to Rooney he steered the conversation back around to Ben and the "Group" made the decision. But of course people like you have to make it sound like Cowher was 100% against it and had to be forced to take him. Which if you listen to Cowher, Rooney and Colbert you'd never get that impression. But making up **** is par for the course for Tomlin apologists.

I'm not the one making excuses. If it were JUST the players, they would not have gone 8-8 I 2006 just missing one person. You people are the one with the excuses.

The year before the SB those same players got linked by the *'s , who scored 41 points. I didn't look to see if they were all offensive scores by the *'s.

The fact is those same players are the ones you are saying did it for Tomlin.

Winning with Cowhers players is BS myth you people like to trot out. Then make excuses for why they didn't do t other years. Why didn't they do it in 2009?

 

[Vader]

I'm not the one making excuses. If it were JUST the players, they would not have gone 8-8 I 2006 just missing one person. You people are the one with the excuses.

The year before the SB those same players got linked by the *'s , who scored 41 points. I didn't look to see if they were all offensive scores by the *'s.

The fact is those same players are the ones you are saying did it for Tomlin.

Winning with Cowhers players is BS myth you people like to trot out. Then make excuses for why they didn't do t other years. Why didn't they do it in 2009?

So you think the same players last year on this team that got plastered by the jags TWICE can beat them this year? Didn't they give up MORE points against them than they did against pats*** did in 2004? Do you see how ignorant that sounds?

 

[ark steel]

So you think the same players last year on this team that got plastered by the jags TWICE can beat them this year? Didn't they give up MORE points than the pats*** did in 2004? Do you see how ignorant that sounds?

I have no idea what that means. I assume it has to do with some other BS myth you want to carry forward?

I dont know that i have ever said Tomlin is a great coach. I think he is close. Significantly closer than the circle jerk group around here thinks he is.

You guys live in your very own echo chamber. Can't wait to jump on the board to gloat about how Ben bailed out Tomlin, again, or, even after Ben throws 2 pick 6's and 3 other ints, that it was Tomlin's gameplan that was the reason we lost.

If someone speaks up, they must be shouted down or called Tomlin nuthuggers. Sorta like another group we know about, but aren't supposed to mention on this side of the board. Maybe you guys can get some AntiTo balaklavas.

Hell, pop has a thread about how bad Tomlin's team is after the bye, when he is 9th best.

 

[Vader]

I have no idea what that means. I assume it has to do with some other BS myth you want to carry forward?

I dont know that i have ever said Tomlin is a great coach. I think he is close. Significantly closer than the circle jerk group around here thinks he is.

You guys live in your very own echo chamber. Can't wait to jump on the board to gloat about how Ben bailed out Tomlin, again, or, even after Ben throws 2 pick 6's and 3 other ints, that it was Tomlin's gameplan that was the reason we lost.

If someone speaks up, they must be shouted down or called Tomlin nuthuggers. Sorta like another group we know about, but aren't supposed to mention on this side of the board. Maybe you guys can get some AntiTo balaklavas.

Hell, pop has a thread about how bad Tomlin's team is after the bye, when he is 9th best.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the pats*** game one year before the SB. What the hell are you talking about?

Also you guys live in your own echo chamber. Same ****... Team loses BEN SUCKS!! Team wins because Ben brings them back LOOK AT TOMLIN'S TEAM!! Same **** different game. Tomlin isn't close to a great coach. I'm sure you believe he is but that doesn't make it true. If I had told you after his one SB win that he wouldn't win another SB in 10 years and counting with Ben on the team every single year you wouldn't believe it. I wouldn't have either. But changing OC, DC, scouts, OL coach, Lb coaches ETC... one thing remains the same.... Tomlin.