Yeah the spin is tgey we’re trying to get background images or something...
Cheat...Terssssss
Once a cheater .....
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Yeah the spin is tgey we’re trying to get background images or something...
Cheat...Terssssss
Money talks Slash. This could be worth big $$$$$$$$$$. The media needs to put this **** front and center. Public pressure. Put TMZ on it. They will get the tape.
The Athletic said 8 min. Tha tis a pay site so I couldn't read the whole thing. This is why full transparency will be required. If he filmed the entire first 1/4 there is no way that is for the fluff piece and there is no way he did that on his own.
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Just ban Belischmuck already. He will never stop cheating until he is GONE.
Because Kraft owns Godell, thus the NFL.
I saw the 8 minutes thing also, they reported the part about the entire qtr on the fan 20 minutes ago
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He can't get a slap on the wrist. The only 2 ways out for Cheatin Bill are:
1) It's not an infraction, no punishment
2) It's an infraction and he's banned for life.
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I'll take a Number two ................................... literally and would love to on several nfl employee's and cheatriots employee's door steps
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At first I was meh on this, but now espn is saying a source filmed the entire 1st quarter.
Nail their *** to the wall, I want lost pics and suspensions for Kraft and Bellicheat. A forfeit to the bungles is most appropriate but there's no way that happens with the cash and tv contracts.
Imagine if any other team had the track record this owner has, there would be hell to pay...
Nail their *** to the wall, I want lost pics and suspensions for Kraft and Bellicheat. A forfeit to the bungles is most appropriate but there's no way that happens with the cash and tv contracts.
Imagine if any other team had the track record this owner has, there would be hell to pay...
The Bungles? The 1-12 Bungles?? They need to cheat to beat those clowns. What a bunch of ******* losers. Pretty much says if they're willing to cheat against a 1-12 team that they cheat against everybody. Then you have the media and the announcers licking their balls saying how great their defense is.."always in the right place at the right time", " great awareness and discipline", calling out teams plays pre-snap, what a crock of ****. It's easy to pass a test when you have the ******* answers
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it will come out like the pass interference calls. Blatant but no punishment. Or like the FISA warrant abuse. Totally not political..
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BILL BELICHICK
C, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
The Athletic's Paul Dehner Jr. reports the Patriots sent a three-person video crew to record Cincinnati's sideline for "about eight minutes" in Sunday's matchup against the Browns.
Bill Belichick obviously denied any involvement on WEEI-FM hours before the organization issued an official statement on Monday night claiming the production crew for their documentary on an advanced scout didn’t know the NFL policy; that of course is the exact excuse New England's videographers were told to use if asked what they were doing during the Spygate investigation. That case settled with Belichick being fined $500,000 while Robert Kraft and the organization were hit with a $250,000 fine and loss of a first-round pick. The Deflategate investigation eight years later resulted in another lost first-round pick and four-game suspension for Tom Brady. Any guilty verdict in this most recent controversy would obviously bring down an impactful ruling. Suspensions across the board are on the table.
SOURCE: Paul Dehner Jr. on Twitter
Dec 10, 2019, 10:47 AM ET
C, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
The Athletic's Paul Dehner Jr. reports the Patriots sent a three-person video crew to record Cincinnati's sideline for "about eight minutes" in Sunday's matchup against the Browns.
Bill Belichick obviously denied any involvement on WEEI-FM hours before the organization issued an official statement on Monday night claiming the production crew for their documentary on an advanced scout didn’t know the NFL policy; that of course is the exact excuse New England's videographers were told to use if asked what they were doing during the Spygate investigation. That case settled with Belichick being fined $500,000 while Robert Kraft and the organization were hit with a $250,000 fine and loss of a first-round pick. The Deflategate investigation eight years later resulted in another lost first-round pick and four-game suspension for Tom Brady. Any guilty verdict in this most recent controversy would obviously bring down an impactful ruling. Suspensions across the board are on the table.
SOURCE: Paul Dehner Jr. on Twitter
Dec 10, 2019, 10:47 AM ET
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This needs to be the NFL's version of MLB's Pete Rose ban ... both Kraft and Belicheat gone and asterisks next to ALL SB wins or strip the organization of them altogether.
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I don't know if you guys understand the seriousness of these latest allegations. But, first, to respond (as I often do) to several things at once...
Now this is important. If the Cheats TRULY are using all their extra radio equipment (they bring about 2 to 3 times as much radio equipment to away games as other teams) to "interrupt" radio transmission to the QB and Defensive Captain at critical times, you have to be aware that in order to interrupt that signal, you have to know the FREQUENCY. If you know the frequency, you can listen in. (Yes, I know the league implemented some scrambling technology. Why do you suppose they did that? Furthermore, if an algorithm exists to scramble a signal, a counter-algorithm exists to decipher it. Otherwise NOBODY would be able to hear the radio signals.) Short version, the P*ts have been listening in on radio calls for over a decade. They KNOW the calls going in to opposing QBs and defenses and Ernie Adams KNOWS each teams play-calling language. THIS is why the cheats are always in the right place at the right time, why they always have the perfect play dialed up. But, I will try not to rant.
With all THAT data, Ernie has the playcall for each play of the game, along with any anecdotal actions/mannerisms of the coach leading up to that playcall. He then begins the process (with his eidetic memory) of working out what happens during each play and compares that to the play call. In short order, he has "translated" the playcalling language of a team. He knows what each phrase and component mean. Then, in future matchups, when the audio stream is again captured and a playcall sent in, Ernie can instantly determine what the play is and send that information down to the appropriate helmet mic. The players STILL have to execute. Just because you know Leonard Fournette is about to come through your gap doesn't mean you don't have to stop him. THAT is why often times games aren't simply blowouts. THAT is why good teams still play the cheats to close games. Because it becomes execution against execution. The P*ts have merely removed the guesswork about what the offense or defense is trying to do.
Obviously Brady. He may already have a bust in the hall.
Obviously Bellichik.
Obviously Kraft.
And there are other players that one assume deserves enshrinement. Gronk, of course. Edleman has put together an extraordinary career.
Now. Consider the ramifications of a new Spygate controversy. If you, the league, are forced to come out and announce that the P*ts have been caught cheating AGAIN, and it was basically the same thing they got dinged for, what, 12 or 13 years ago, does ANYONE believe that the cheats unbelievable run wasn't built on systemic, cancerous cheating?
And if THAT's the case, clearly Brady, Bellichik, and Kraft can't get into the H.O.F. And why would you put Gronk in? I mean, how much of his career was actually based on the cheats... well cheating? Same goes for Edleman.
Essentially you would be GUTTING the league. You'd be exposing that the entire last decade + of National Football Games were essentially rigged by a cheating team.
At face value, they just can't do that.
However, you also have a fairly serious undercurrent of unhappiness with NFL fans. Honestly, what is the point of watching the league anymore? You KNOW who's going to win. The only POSSIBLE wildcard anymore is whether the cheats will lose the SB by a FG or if they'll once more come out as undisputed champions of the ever-verse. Nobody gives a **** about the NFL anymore because it's becoming so obviously a manipulated product. At this point, you can't look at ANY teams wins and say, "Ya, I feel good about that." There are too many missed, blown or flat out bullshit calls that happen.
No, the league has a serious credibility problem and this thing with the Cheats is a full on ******* wrench in the machinery. I'm sure they would have liked for Brady to quietly retire, Belichick to slip off into book-writing and for the P*ts to expectedly suck for a few seasons. Then they could pretend that "yes, the P*ts were truly the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen and how awesome is it that they became amazing with 9-11? How great is it that in our country's greatest time of turmoil and attack that the Patriots rose up and became the greatest unit America has ever seen?
Pretty ******* awesome!
You wanna **** all that up? You wanna shine a spotlight on the fact that the NFL has become the WWF? **** no! You say the sideline tape is inappropriate, but as the cheats suggest, there's nothing on it that would possibly give a team the upper hand. Indeed, it's so boring and mundane that it's been returned to the Cheats. Although the cameraman has been fired because he did a crap job getting crowd footage for the P*ts "do your job" special.
The ONLY way anything is going to come of this is if somebody leaks the tape and people can see for themselves whether or not there is any possible advantageous footage. (However, you have to look at even THAT through the lens of realization that the sideline footage is just ONE component of their spygate process.)
Once more, the ORIGINAL complaint filed by our guy Eric the "Man"gini, included TWO components. Firstly, the P*ts were filming sidelines, particularly coaches giving signals. and SECOND, the P*ts were using extra radio equipment and tampering with radio signals.
Now this is important. If the Cheats TRULY are using all their extra radio equipment (they bring about 2 to 3 times as much radio equipment to away games as other teams) to "interrupt" radio transmission to the QB and Defensive Captain at critical times, you have to be aware that in order to interrupt that signal, you have to know the FREQUENCY. If you know the frequency, you can listen in. (Yes, I know the league implemented some scrambling technology. Why do you suppose they did that? Furthermore, if an algorithm exists to scramble a signal, a counter-algorithm exists to decipher it. Otherwise NOBODY would be able to hear the radio signals.) Short version, the P*ts have been listening in on radio calls for over a decade. They KNOW the calls going in to opposing QBs and defenses and Ernie Adams KNOWS each teams play-calling language. THIS is why the cheats are always in the right place at the right time, why they always have the perfect play dialed up. But, I will try not to rant.
Someone already HAS. Read the original ESPN expose (some of which is quoted above.) People have come forward and explained a great deal of what the cheats do. Not all of it. Their schemes are compartmentalized so only Ernie Adams knows everything. Again, short version. One guy gets "scoreboard footage" showing time, down and distance. They sync this with the "high perspective" footage showing all 22 guys throughout the game. After syncing, they know time, down and distance for every play. This is cut into individual chunks for Ernie. Yet ANOTHER guy is used to film sideline interactions, particularly with the goal of catching signals or coach actions/mannerisms on the sideline. This is paired with each play. Finally, they use any captured audio data they have to get the actual play-call tied to each play. (It should be noted, the P*ts were caught putting microphones in their defensive linemen's pads to catch audibles too.)
With all THAT data, Ernie has the playcall for each play of the game, along with any anecdotal actions/mannerisms of the coach leading up to that playcall. He then begins the process (with his eidetic memory) of working out what happens during each play and compares that to the play call. In short order, he has "translated" the playcalling language of a team. He knows what each phrase and component mean. Then, in future matchups, when the audio stream is again captured and a playcall sent in, Ernie can instantly determine what the play is and send that information down to the appropriate helmet mic. The players STILL have to execute. Just because you know Leonard Fournette is about to come through your gap doesn't mean you don't have to stop him. THAT is why often times games aren't simply blowouts. THAT is why good teams still play the cheats to close games. Because it becomes execution against execution. The P*ts have merely removed the guesswork about what the offense or defense is trying to do.
as somebody else mentioned. PLEASE TMZ. I'm Begging You!
The NFL is actually in a very precarious position. One that the P*ts should NEVER have put them in. Consider. How many people on the P*ts are right now shoe-ins for the H.O.F.?
Obviously Brady. He may already have a bust in the hall.
Obviously Bellichik.
Obviously Kraft.
And there are other players that one assume deserves enshrinement. Gronk, of course. Edleman has put together an extraordinary career.
Now. Consider the ramifications of a new Spygate controversy. If you, the league, are forced to come out and announce that the P*ts have been caught cheating AGAIN, and it was basically the same thing they got dinged for, what, 12 or 13 years ago, does ANYONE believe that the cheats unbelievable run wasn't built on systemic, cancerous cheating?
And if THAT's the case, clearly Brady, Bellichik, and Kraft can't get into the H.O.F. And why would you put Gronk in? I mean, how much of his career was actually based on the cheats... well cheating? Same goes for Edleman.
Essentially you would be GUTTING the league. You'd be exposing that the entire last decade + of National Football Games were essentially rigged by a cheating team.
At face value, they just can't do that.
However, you also have a fairly serious undercurrent of unhappiness with NFL fans. Honestly, what is the point of watching the league anymore? You KNOW who's going to win. The only POSSIBLE wildcard anymore is whether the cheats will lose the SB by a FG or if they'll once more come out as undisputed champions of the ever-verse. Nobody gives a **** about the NFL anymore because it's becoming so obviously a manipulated product. At this point, you can't look at ANY teams wins and say, "Ya, I feel good about that." There are too many missed, blown or flat out bullshit calls that happen.
No, the league has a serious credibility problem and this thing with the Cheats is a full on ******* wrench in the machinery. I'm sure they would have liked for Brady to quietly retire, Belichick to slip off into book-writing and for the P*ts to expectedly suck for a few seasons. Then they could pretend that "yes, the P*ts were truly the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen and how awesome is it that they became amazing with 9-11? How great is it that in our country's greatest time of turmoil and attack that the Patriots rose up and became the greatest unit America has ever seen?
Pretty ******* awesome!
You wanna **** all that up? You wanna shine a spotlight on the fact that the NFL has become the WWF? **** no! You say the sideline tape is inappropriate, but as the cheats suggest, there's nothing on it that would possibly give a team the upper hand. Indeed, it's so boring and mundane that it's been returned to the Cheats. Although the cameraman has been fired because he did a crap job getting crowd footage for the P*ts "do your job" special.
The ONLY way anything is going to come of this is if somebody leaks the tape and people can see for themselves whether or not there is any possible advantageous footage. (However, you have to look at even THAT through the lens of realization that the sideline footage is just ONE component of their spygate process.)
If they are doing a film session on their scouts, then there is zero reason to even video tape the Bengals sideline, the scout isn't on their sidelines, he's in the press box, if they needed some film of the Bengals on game day, show some of them warming up. It's so damn obvious what their doing.
I don't know how some Steeler fans, and Rams fans, don't feel totally ripped off. Busted taping the Rams walk through before the Super Bowl. We installed a play of Friday before the 04 championship game, that we've never run, and when we run it there's Harrison standing right where the ball is going, to the point where he totally let Ward go open. Several players said they were calling out the plays they were about to run in that game.
Chris Hoke is adamant that something was going on.
I don't know how some Steeler fans, and Rams fans, don't feel totally ripped off. Busted taping the Rams walk through before the Super Bowl. We installed a play of Friday before the 04 championship game, that we've never run, and when we run it there's Harrison standing right where the ball is going, to the point where he totally let Ward go open. Several players said they were calling out the plays they were about to run in that game.
Chris Hoke is adamant that something was going on.
@wig - well written. I can't like it enough and thank you for also mentioning radios and encryption. That has been a thorn of mine for a while but few will even acknowledge it.
One point I do disagree with is when folks say there is no advantage to knowing signals because players still have to execute. It is true that players have to execute, but part of play calling is spotting a tendency by the other team that you can exploit. For example, if you see the backside backer over pursuing, you call misdirection. If you see the playside backer cheating too close to the edge to stop the off tackle, you call the bubble screen to the WR. That is where the true money is with play calling in my opinion. It is why teams script some early plays...to see what the defense is giving. If the defense knows the plays that are coming, they can play more aggressive to that play and if they know things like misdirection are coming they can stay home. This is one reason I love option concepts...not just triple option (love it, but not appropriate for pro's) but RPO's and even route option reads. It is what made zone running so interesting when it first came out...the runner could hit the hole or cut back into a backside lane.
One point I do disagree with is when folks say there is no advantage to knowing signals because players still have to execute. It is true that players have to execute, but part of play calling is spotting a tendency by the other team that you can exploit. For example, if you see the backside backer over pursuing, you call misdirection. If you see the playside backer cheating too close to the edge to stop the off tackle, you call the bubble screen to the WR. That is where the true money is with play calling in my opinion. It is why teams script some early plays...to see what the defense is giving. If the defense knows the plays that are coming, they can play more aggressive to that play and if they know things like misdirection are coming they can stay home. This is one reason I love option concepts...not just triple option (love it, but not appropriate for pro's) but RPO's and even route option reads. It is what made zone running so interesting when it first came out...the runner could hit the hole or cut back into a backside lane.
They don't need to film anything. The NFL should film and distribute game film to teams. Everyone gets the same tape that way. Further, the NFL should have an official in the team press box during every game.
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I'm not saying knowing the calls isn't a huge advantage. Obviously it is. That's what has allowed the P*ts to plug in no-names and cast-offs for years and play at an amazingly high and consistent level.
However, only a couple times have the P*ts just utterly dominated, even with their systematic cheating. There was the "almost-undefeated" season, where I think the P*ts were saying "**** you!" to the league for daring to expose and punish them. And then the otherworldly come-back against the Falcons a few years ago.
Yes, there were a few things involved in that ****-show, including the Falcons coaching staff inexplicably choosing NOT to run the ball more and kill clock. But the fact is, I ******* knew the P*ts were going to come back in the 2nd half. I knew they were going to make it at least interesting. What they did however was essentially an "in-your-face" demonstration of utter dominance.
The fact is, if you have a quality team, even if you know their play-call, your guys still have to beat their guys. Yes, it's so much easier if you know what they're doing, but at the end of day, if you know the Steelers are looking at Hines Ward as the #1 option on post, you still have to put a corner out there on Hines Ward and you have to be prepared for Hines to break his route.
It's my opinion that this is why the Cheats have won a lot of 3 to 7 point games over the years.
However, only a couple times have the P*ts just utterly dominated, even with their systematic cheating. There was the "almost-undefeated" season, where I think the P*ts were saying "**** you!" to the league for daring to expose and punish them. And then the otherworldly come-back against the Falcons a few years ago.
Yes, there were a few things involved in that ****-show, including the Falcons coaching staff inexplicably choosing NOT to run the ball more and kill clock. But the fact is, I ******* knew the P*ts were going to come back in the 2nd half. I knew they were going to make it at least interesting. What they did however was essentially an "in-your-face" demonstration of utter dominance.
The fact is, if you have a quality team, even if you know their play-call, your guys still have to beat their guys. Yes, it's so much easier if you know what they're doing, but at the end of day, if you know the Steelers are looking at Hines Ward as the #1 option on post, you still have to put a corner out there on Hines Ward and you have to be prepared for Hines to break his route.
It's my opinion that this is why the Cheats have won a lot of 3 to 7 point games over the years.
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If it didn't work to their advantage they wouldn't risk doing it. They aren't going to go through all the trouble of filming something that doesn't help them. A HCs time is too valuable to waste with something that doesn't work. They've been doing it for years so they know it works.
This is the first time the Pats have played the Bengals under the new coaching staff, so they don't have any signals on them yet. I haven't read all the stories yet, but Stan is saying they were filming the Bengals practice also.