OK...this is weird. K-DOT has (apparently) pissed off the coaches.

[CoolieMan]

**** the offseason

 

[steelreeling]

Did you just copy/paste/quote from a post I made in another thread before this thread got started? I didn't say he was out of shape. DK said he was told he was in "less than ideal shape". Since I don't know what the coaches asked of him, I can't say whether he has or has not met that standard (which is, of course, the standard). But, as I said earlier, looks can be deceiving. He may not be at the level of cardio fitness they want him at.

As one poster noted above (Bleeder?), his legs do look a little skinny as opposed to his upper body. Might be that's just the way his body makes gains. Might be that they specifically asked him to work on getting those legs to match the rest of his body. I don't know. But, it seems to me that if he was pulling trucks with those legs last off season, they should be plenty strong enough. Which leads me back to cardio. I think the initial meeting with Turner and the leak to DK was a shot across the bow about his cardio not being up to snuff so that he would come to camp in shape to handle the not so gentle workload that Klemm may have in store for them. Again though ... who knows? Could just be that DK was wrong/going for the clicks.

The coaches and the FO better not have been behind this "sending a message thing". If Steelers management has the temerity to ***** and cry about all the bullshit from Bell, Brown and Shuster, then they ought not to partake in the same passive-aggressive bullshit by passing messages thru the media with stories like this. Otherwise it is fair for star players to start riling up the locker-room to "send a message" to the coaching staff and GM.

If Mike Tomlin wants respect, then he needs to cut-the-**** here and squash these rumors quickly. Tomlin and Co. need to act like the fans and players can trust them - not like a douche-bag boss.

 

[steelreeling]

Coaches play mind games all the time, if you played football at any level and were sidelined with an injury they treated you like a leper. Maybe Dotson was a bit winded even though he looks to be in fine shape, maybe he seemed less serious and was acting like an established vet with a couple pro bowls under his belt. That gun at the sun also could have upset the coaches. Who knows but I believe he'll be fine and probably got the message.

What scares me is that picture of Trai Turner, I don't remeber him looking so slovenly. Maybe the groin really impacted his conditioning and play last year, I sure hope that's the cause, he looks like he couldn't pull without a five second head start.

It's just odd for the coaching staff to somehow suddenly value fit and quick OL. And yet they draft Najee, Frier & Moore while you have Chucks, Dot, Hassenauer & Banner looking to start on the OL?!*(^#@! i mean that's really not a recipe for an outside zone running scheme.

Why are they trying to punk this kid after the coaches clearly made a mistake in not starting and playing him at LG more last season? Would the coaches even admit that mistake? idk

 

[Ike Kelly]

Not saying it's not true that the decision to release DD was agreed to on both sides. However, this is the first I've heard of it. I've read that he was "not surprised" at being released, but not that he agreed to it. Kinda different scenarios. For example, my delivery driver was probably not surprised that he was fired for being late 6 times over the last month. But, we never had a conversation where we agreed it was the best course of action.

Buckeye, Dave was released on the NFI title (Non Football Injury). So it wasn’t related to PIT’s decision, but rather a reaction to DD’s decision for a 3rd surgery so close to camp. No doubt there will be grievances filed by his agent and NFLPA, as most NFI releases are. It is reported the FO and training staff knew his ankle was still bothering him during OTAs, hence why they sent him for another MRI. The decision for a 3rd surgery was from DD, not PIT, hence the reason for his NFI release. Coincidentally DD knew he would be released and lose the balance on his contract. The grievances are just protocol.

6 times? Gheez how many warnings did you give him before cutting him loose? Man times have changed…….being punctual on the clock was a no-brainer.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Buckeye, Dave was released on the NFI title (Non Football Injury). So it wasn’t related to PIT’s decision, but rather a reaction to DD’s decision for a 3rd surgery so close to camp. No doubt there will be grievances filed by his agent and NFLPA, as most NFI releases are. It is reported the FO and training staff knew his ankle was still bothering him during OTAs, hence why they sent him for another MRI. The decision for a 3rd surgery was from DD, not PIT, hence the reason for his NFI release. Coincidentally DD knew he would be released and lose the balance on his contract. The grievances are just protocol.

6 times? Gheez how many warnings did you give him before cutting him loose? Man times have changed…….being punctual on the clock was a no-brainer.

Six times. Was looking for his replacement after time #2. Hard to find folks without a CDL that the commercial insurance will cover. They're all pulling jobs with Amazon Delivery nowadays. smh

 

[KStilley]

It's just odd for the coaching staff to somehow suddenly value fit and quick OL. And yet they draft Najee, Frier & Moore while you have Chucks, Dot, Hassenauer & Banner looking to start on the OL?!*(^#@! i mean that's really not a recipe for an outside zone running scheme.

Why are they trying to punk this kid after the coaches clearly made a mistake in not starting and playing him at LG more last season? Would the coaches even admit that mistake? idk

Let's say for this conversation that it's true the coaching staff was upset with Dotson's off season preperation, maybe conditioning, maybe months ago Klemm, Canada and or Tomlin sent the offensive linemen information on what they expected the OL to grasp regarding upcoming changes and Dotson wasn't up to speed. Who knows but intentionally (if Tomlin OK'd the leak) releasing their displeasure in his preparation is something they hope he'll positively respond to.
Hopefully it works, people respond differently to this type of approach.

I'm with you as far as allowing him to remain at LG upon Feiler's return but that's last year.

Maybe you and I look at things differently regarding motivation, maybe it's an age difference. I don't think their intention is to disrespect (punk) Dotson, it's more of your not a rookie anymore and if you want this job and make a boatload of money while doing so, get to work.

 

[TDX27]

He looks in good shape strength-wise. If his cardio isn't there, he can gain some over the next 6 weeks or so before camp but he should have been working on it for months now. He would be too far behind, at this point, to get to where he needs to be. Of course, this is all hypothetical since we don't even know if the story is true.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

But, you can get that cut without being in top cardio shape. You can even look like Adonis and have the cardio of a couch potato. Not to mention not have the flexibility that is required to play Guard in the NFL if you aren't doing stretching exercises. A lot more than lifting weights is needed to be "in condition" to play at the professional level.

As the great Deion Sanders said “you don’t see lions stretching before the kill” Stretching has never proved to being beneficial. ConditionIng takes about 6-8 weeks To build up good cardio. Not like this guy has to lose 40 lbs.

 

[steelreeling]

Let's say for this conversation that it's true the coaching staff was upset with Dotson's off season preperation, maybe conditioning, maybe months ago Klemm, Canada and or Tomlin sent the offensive linemen information on what they expected the OL to grasp regarding upcoming changes and Dotson wasn't up to speed. Who knows but intentionally (if Tomlin OK'd the leak) releasing their displeasure in his preparation is something they hope he'll positively respond to.
Hopefully it works, people respond differently to this type of approach.

I'm with you as far as allowing him to remain at LG upon Feiler's return but that's last year.

Maybe you and I look at things differently regarding motivation, maybe it's an age difference. I don't think their intention is to disrespect (punk) Dotson, it's more of your not a rookie anymore and if you want this job and make a boatload of money while doing so, get to work.

As old as i am, i dont think it's an old v. new school thing. I agree with your take on it, hope for noble intentions. But i dont respect the mind-games that coaches try to play. nor games from players.

A guy like Cowher, hell the men i've always seen in my life that have real honor - they'd tell you **** right to your face.

These kid-athletes at 21 years old (starting w/ Meshaun way back) display alot of disrespect. And i think the first thing you do is take them aside privately and dress them down.

Public stink has lingering effects on trust... and that works both ways. Cowher, Reeves, Shottenheimer, Landry, Noll and Gibbs are men that were always above-board and trusted to actually lead. I guess that's just one man's opinion about it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

As the great Deion Sanders said “you don’t see lions stretching before the kill” Stretching has never proved to being beneficial. ConditionIng takes about 6-8 weeks To build up good cardio. Not like this guy has to lose 40 lbs.

Good point. Which would put the "shot across the bow" at about the right time for KD to get in cardio shape ... "IF" that's what it was and "IF" it even happened.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

As old as i am, i dont think it's an old v. new school thing. I agree with your take on it, hope for noble intentions. But i dont respect the mind-games that coaches try to play. nor games from players.

A guy like Cowher, hell the men i've always seen in my life that have real honor - they'd tell you **** right to your face.

These kid-athletes at 21 years old (starting w/ Meshaun way back) display alot of disrespect. And i think the first thing you do is take them aside privately and dress them down.

Public stink has lingering effects on trust... and that works both ways. Cowher, Reeves, Shottenheimer, Landry, Noll and Gibbs are men that were always above-board and trusted to actually lead. I guess that's just one man's opinion about it.

Question: Are you implying that Tomlin isn't that type of guy? Because if he isn't, then a lot of players have been lying about how upfront he is and how he'll tell you the good, the bad, the ugly to your face.

 

[steelreeling]

Let's say for this conversation that it's true the coaching staff was upset with Dotson's off season preperation, maybe conditioning, maybe months ago Klemm, Canada and or Tomlin sent the offensive linemen information on what they expected the OL to grasp regarding upcoming changes and Dotson wasn't up to speed. Who knows but intentionally (if Tomlin OK'd the leak) releasing their displeasure in his preparation is something they hope he'll positively respond to.
Hopefully it works, people respond differently to this type of approach.

I'm with you as far as allowing him to remain at LG upon Feiler's return but that's last year.

Maybe you and I look at things differently regarding motivation, maybe it's an age difference. I don't think their intention is to disrespect (punk) Dotson, it's more of your not a rookie anymore and if you want this job and make a boatload of money while doing so, get to work.

i guess the original point i also tried making - why the **** do they care?

i mean they are putting together a mauling, street-fighter crew this year to run Najee inside. Protect Ben in his last year on a SB run.

And then the coaches whine like ******* - never before seen - about the condition of a big-ugly?!@# How does THAT make any sense? Unless they were counting on these guys sprinting out in zone-running schemes? Coaches were never before ******* with a guy like... Shar Poundesh. Those kind of guys are animals, road-graders. Nobody looks at this cobblestone OL we got now and says '[g]ee, i wonder if their hand-placement and footwork techniques will hold up enough to allow Najee 6-9 hundred-yard rushing games this season?!'

What else in the frickin world - other than a power trip - could be their motivation for pulling the baby-momma drama **** like this?

 

[steelreeling]

Question: Are you implying that Tomlin isn't that type of guy? Because if he isn't, then a lot of players have been lying about how upfront he is and how he'll tell you the good, the bad, the ugly to your face.

i think Tomlin, given his age, is a coach whom has put up with this ****. It does not seem to bother him. And on the flip side, the locker room has been hurt because of it - for evidence i would point to Ward, Harrison and Troy leaving disgruntled while there has never been true discipline for the antics of Bell or Brown from Tomlin.

And so, unfortunately, players these days can relate to Tomlin in this respect. Thus, the players like him and say that he's straight up with you. But he's not - because if he was, the Steelers wouldn't have put up with even Ben the drama-queen ****, let alone the testing positive BS from Bell. Stonio getting arrested and leaving. Brown - doing that.

If Cowher was in charge (and perhaps Dan still alive) then the Steelers would've sent a message to knock off the ****.

 

[TDX27]

I agree with Deion to an extent. You might be able to get your cardio up in that timeframe but you also risk hamstring, achilles, and other injuries of the like trying to do it so quickly. You have to push yourself daily to get there and not give your muscles time to recover.

 

[Drink IRON City]

i think Tomlin, given his age, is a coach whom has put up with this ****. It does not seem to bother him. And on the flip side, the locker room has been hurt because of it - for evidence i would point to Ward, Harrison and Troy leaving disgruntled while there has never been true discipline for the antics of Bell or Brown from Tomlin.

And so, unfortunately, players these days can relate to Tomlin in this respect. Thus, the players like him and say that he's straight up with you. But he's not - because if he was, the Steelers wouldn't have put up with even Ben the drama-queen ****, let alone the testing positive BS from Bell. Stonio getting arrested and leaving. Brown - doing that.

If Cowher was in charge (and perhaps Dan still alive) then the Steelers would've sent a message to knock off the ****.

VERY true and it shows continously. FAIL at end of season(S), FAIL as Troy attested to the lack of dicipline, FAIL at Brown getting off housing at TC, FAIL at many more things that contribute to a lack of team chemistry and discipline.

Football is a DISCPLINE sport





Salute the nation

 

[KStilley]

As old as i am, i dont think it's an old v. new school thing. I agree with your take on it, hope for noble intentions. But i dont respect the mind-games that coaches try to play. nor games from players.

A guy like Cowher, hell the men i've always seen in my life that have real honor - they'd tell you **** right to your face.

These kid-athletes at 21 years old (starting w/ Meshaun way back) display alot of disrespect. And i think the first thing you do is take them aside privately and dress them down.

Public stink has lingering effects on trust... and that works both ways. Cowher, Reeves, Shottenheimer, Landry, Noll and Gibbs are men that were always above-board and trusted to actually lead. I guess that's just one man's opinion about it.

That's a reasonable/good opinion.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

i think Tomlin, given his age, is a coach whom has put up with this ****. It does not seem to bother him. And on the flip side, the locker room has been hurt because of it - for evidence i would point to Ward, Harrison and Troy leaving disgruntled while there has never been true discipline for the antics of Bell or Brown from Tomlin.

And so, unfortunately, players these days can relate to Tomlin in this respect. Thus, the players like him and say that he's straight up with you. But he's not - because if he was, the Steelers wouldn't have put up with even Ben the drama-queen ****, let alone the testing positive BS from Bell. Stonio getting arrested and leaving. Brown - doing that.

If Cowher was in charge (and perhaps Dan still alive) then the Steelers would've sent a message to knock off the ****.

Ward, Troy and to some extent Harrison, left because the coaching staff and front office no longer believed they could play well enough. That actually may have been why they were disgruntled. Brown was traded to Oakland. Bell was suspended for his smoke and toke. Tomlin couldn't, under the CBA and a fair amount of labor laws, punish him for not signing his franchise tag.

Also, I think you may want to revisit those Cowher years. He had his own discipline problems. As did Noll. Pounds of weed in the trunk of your RBs car. Your DL standing on the Ohio Turnpike shooting at a police helicopter. etc.,etc., etc.

 

[steelreeling]

That's a reasonable/good opinion.

Thanks man.

 

[steelreeling]

Ward, Troy and to some extent Harrison, left because the coaching staff and front office no longer believed they could play well enough. That actually may have been why they were disgruntled. Brown was traded to Oakland. Bell was suspended for his smoke and toke. Tomlin couldn't, under the CBA and a fair amount of labor laws, punish him for not signing his franchise tag.

Also, I think you may want to revisit those Cowher years. He had his own discipline problems. As did Noll. Pounds of weed in the trunk of your RBs car. Your DL standing on the Ohio Turnpike shooting at a police helicopter. etc.,etc., etc.

So do you think Cowher would have had a rough time disciplining the team in this modern era because of technology and all the CBA rules and other **** anyways?

And also, would you say that Tomlin and Cowher are really not that far apart in terms of how they treat the players?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

So do you think Cowher would have had a rough time disciplining the team in this modern era because of technology and all the CBA rules and other **** anyways?

And also, would you say that Tomlin and Cowher are really not that far apart in terms of how they treat the players?

I think Cowher would have a tough time dealing with today's players, the CBA, the way the media blows even the littlest thing out of proportion. There's a perception that Cowher was a disciplinarian and, at according to one HOF Steelers player, he wasn't.
I took this quote from an article Cook wrote on the subject of Tomlin and Cowher as disciplinarians. Jerome Bettis had this to say in that article:

" Jerome Bettis said after Plaxico Burress signed with the New York Giants in 2005? “I know [Burress] is not a stickler for the rules and [Giants coach Tom] Coughlin is all about rules … coach Cowher allowed us a lot of flexibility. He never fined us for anything. You came late, you never got fined. You never got reprimanded for anything.” https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...as-better-disciplinarian/stories/201608090015

People tend to forget that there were plenty of screwups, illegal acts and PR nightmares during Cowher's years also.

• In November 1992 — Cowher's first year — Eric Green got busted for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

• Before the 1994 AFC Championship game, some Steelers players prepped a Super Bowl rap video then proceeded to lose at home to San Diego.

• In 1996, Byron "Bam" Morris pleaded guilty to felony possession of marijuana.

• In 2000, Richard Huntley and Earl Holmes got involved in a minicamp wooden-stool-swinging brawl in the locker room.

• Plaxico Burress was cited for an open-container violation in Cleveland and public drunkenness in Virginia while he was a Steeler. He also got ejected for fighting James Trapp during a Ravens game, and he skipped a minicamp practice as a Mother's Day protest.

• Marvel Smith was arrested for using marijuana two weeks before training camp started in 2002.

• Porter got ejected for a pregame fight in Cleveland and tried to fight Ray Lewis outside of the Baltimore team bus in 2003. This after he missed the game with his injury from a gunshot wound.

From an article written by Benz awhile back. https://archive.triblive.com/sports...hings-werent-perfect-with-bill-cowher-either/

I think Tomlin and Cowher both have two different ways they treat(ed) players. Stars/starters have one set and backups/role players have another set. Like it or not, you're not treating TJ Watt the same way you'd treat Quincy Roche.

 

[Ike Kelly]

i think Tomlin, given his age, is a coach whom has put up with this ****. It does not seem to bother him. And on the flip side, the locker room has been hurt because of it - for evidence i would point to Ward, Harrison and Troy leaving disgruntled while there has never been true discipline for the antics of Bell or Brown from Tomlin.

And so, unfortunately, players these days can relate to Tomlin in this respect. Thus, the players like him and say that he's straight up with you. But he's not - because if he was, the Steelers wouldn't have put up with even Ben the drama-queen ****, let alone the testing positive BS from Bell. Stonio getting arrested and leaving. Brown - doing that.

If Cowher was in charge (and perhaps Dan still alive) then the Steelers would've sent a message to knock off the ****.

Given his age? Does not seem to bother him? Locker room has been hurt because of it? Seems to be revisioning of history going on in thought. Age as a parameter? Hardly, Tomlin been a head coach for one team longer than anyone besides, Belichick and off the top of my head maybe Payton and Carroll. He’s seen almost all of it for sure. But put up with it, or that it doesn't bother him? How can one know? Tomlin’s press conferences are just as vanilla as Cowher’s ever were. His post camp practice comments are ALWAYS measured with the intent of giving subtle notice to those who needed to hear it. Only those in the locker room knew Who it was for. His mannerisms while being somewhat toned down the majority of the time you could tell when he was absolutely pissed after a poor performance. While easy to see and ridicule, isn’t as ludicrous as some of the theatrics we’ve seen from others.

Its interesting that you state players say he’s straight up, but really isn’t because “if he was“ there wouldn’t be any Ben Drama. That’s hogwash. Ben has always welcomed the dramatics. Hell, he was more dramatic his first couple years with Cowher. After his “come to Jesus“ with Dan Rooney regarding all the negatives from Millidgeville and Reno incidents he’s walked the better path. Sure he’s still does his drama queen antics with injuries, or play calling, what 10+ year vet QB in the league doesn’t? Is there on record any player saying Tomlin wasn’t straight up? I haven’t heard or read any. Harrison, had a problem with Porter, not Tomlin. He was his position coach and obviously Butler has to listen to his position coaches. Honestly, I don‘t think Peezy was an effective coach. He definitely wasn’t towards Jones and Bud in the beginning. When Butler took over OLB job amazing how productive both Bud and then TJ became.

As for Hines, Troy and Deebo, Buckeye nailed it. The coaches saw the tape, the injuries, the effectiveness of those players and made a team decision. The fact two of the three retired without even bothering with interests from other clubs, should validate what the coaches saw. Deebo the exception, but to look at his work post release, I saw nothing special to validate his demand to be released.

Bell’s positive test (by not testing) is well documented. He won an appeal of the original decision and never had a positive after entering the NFL’s substance abuse program after his initial suspension. Holmes being arrested? Are you kidding me? He tweeted one morning “time to wake and bake” and went viral so fast that he was traded a day later to NYJ. Rex Ryan took him, knowing he was going to be suspended again. Holmes was already on thin ice with his previous suspension. So how is it Tomlin not being “straight up”. No doubt he gives “opinions” to players privately. There is the CBA and NFLPA to work through any discipline.

i definitely agree if Dan was around AB would have been gone after the playoff video incident.

 

[steelreeling]

I think Cowher would have a tough time dealing with today's players, the CBA, the way the media blows even the littlest thing out of proportion. There's a perception that Cowher was a disciplinarian and, at according to one HOF Steelers player, he wasn't.
I took this quote from an article Cook wrote on the subject of Tomlin and Cowher as disciplinarians. Jerome Bettis had this to say in that article:

" Jerome Bettis said after Plaxico Burress signed with the New York Giants in 2005? “I know [Burress] is not a stickler for the rules and [Giants coach Tom] Coughlin is all about rules … coach Cowher allowed us a lot of flexibility. He never fined us for anything. You came late, you never got fined. You never got reprimanded for anything.” https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...as-better-disciplinarian/stories/201608090015

People tend to forget that there were plenty of screwups, illegal acts and PR nightmares during Cowher's years also.

• In November 1992 — Cowher's first year — Eric Green got busted for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

• Before the 1994 AFC Championship game, some Steelers players prepped a Super Bowl rap video then proceeded to lose at home to San Diego.

• In 1996, Byron "Bam" Morris pleaded guilty to felony possession of marijuana.

• In 2000, Richard Huntley and Earl Holmes got involved in a minicamp wooden-stool-swinging brawl in the locker room.

• Plaxico Burress was cited for an open-container violation in Cleveland and public drunkenness in Virginia while he was a Steeler. He also got ejected for fighting James Trapp during a Ravens game, and he skipped a minicamp practice as a Mother's Day protest.

• Marvel Smith was arrested for using marijuana two weeks before training camp started in 2002.

• Porter got ejected for a pregame fight in Cleveland and tried to fight Ray Lewis outside of the Baltimore team bus in 2003. This after he missed the game with his injury from a gunshot wound.

From an article written by Benz awhile back. https://archive.triblive.com/sports...hings-werent-perfect-with-bill-cowher-either/

I think Tomlin and Cowher both have two different ways they treat(ed) players. Stars/starters have one set and backups/role players have another set. Like it or not, you're not treating TJ Watt the same way you'd treat Quincy Roche.

That's fair. Personally, i think Cowher dealt with these things better but i take your point.

 

[F83]

we have seen the pics he is in perfect shape bs trying to sir up things, I would think maybe his performance in OTA and minicamp could have been what caused them to bring in Turner before we knew what was going on with DD. After a bad year, Turner should be focusing on coming in lighter, listed at 6"3 315 looked closes to 340 hopefully he sheds say 10 LBS as those SePT and OCT games take a toll on heavier OL and now that we will be running more stamina will be of the essence. Let's see between Haweg and Coward who is higher on the depth chart or maybe we see Finney playing some spot-duty snaps early to keep Turner fresh if we are running say 35 times a game.

 

[TDX27]

Dotson looks like a ripped beast for an OL. As long as he has his cardio under control, the dude is going to maul people this year.

 

[swal75]

Not to belabor a dead point, but he threw out the first pitch at the Pirates' game today and that dude is freaking built