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Is Mike Tomlin an Elite Coach?

Cope said:
1) Belly coached the Browns then. Not an apples to apples argument. Sure had trouble against them in 01 and 04 in the conference finals as a 1 loss team at home...

2) Because the Ref has to see it to call it. Here is where you learn what clock management is. Do the work man, it's a false argument...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RQyCuXlheBFTUgL1l0XGxkwzdrLSwf6u094zqGVSEYQ

3) He actually wins more than he loses. Much better than a coach than never goes for it until they have to, like a Marvin Lewis, or a Herm Edwards, or a Andy Reid or a Norv Turner. Would rather watch a Coach that plays the odds to give you the best chance to win, than watch a coach who is playing not to lose. You just have a problem with the results. You have to live and die by those choices, and more often than not, he's winning.

4) Not sure, He's a head coach now. Not sure why our all pro all everything DB Lake couldn't get those guys to make a play. Ike was amazing under him. Burns did well, and Sutton looked very good. Hilton, the undrafted player let go by Bellicheat, looked fantastic last year. So youth is starting to improve on the corners.

5) I can't disagree on the Haley /Ariens assessment. As I said, I agreed on this point with you. You don't think the Steelers FO had a say in the Haley signing? His dad coached for them, and family ties run deep with the Rooneys.
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1) Those games were most certainly "film aided" though. Just ask Hines.

2) Clock management can mean a few different things. If we're talking strictly the ability to squeeze out extra points through the use of timeouts and clock saving plays, then I agree there is no clock management issue with Tomlin and I would say he's top 3 in the league in making sure we score some points before halftime and also makes sure we have time for game winning drives. So yeah Coach is bitching just to ***** there. My issue with clock management falls more on Ben...usually he's too quick to call a timeout when a simple no huddle would do and leaves more time for the other team to go down and score. This flaw has become more exposed as our defense has worsened.

3) Tomlin is clearly better than those 4. Marvin Lewis makes Tomlin look like Vince Lombardi. Love the 4th down and 2 point conversion attempts. Usually hate the play call associated with them...QB sneak would solve 75% of the 4th and shorts we failed. Hopefully with Haley gone that changes and we see the percentages work in our favor like they're supposed to. I think Tomlin's weakness in this regard are his onside kick decisions. Again, as the D has gotten worse, those decisions become more exposed.

4) Coach kind of has a point that our CB play has been underwhelming for the most part. Whether that's Lake or Tomlin's fault or both, not quite sure. Burns is above average but seems to be missing something that would make him really good. Ike was our last true shutdown corner but became that way under Cowher. Cowher also had his fair share of CB busts too so it's not like I'm saying he's a CB guru either. Hilton was definitely a diamond in the rough who maybe just needed the opportunity so props to Tomlin for giving it to him. Keenan Lewis had a really good season before leaving and maybe he would've been Tomlin's guy if the Saints didn't lure him away. Way too early to make a call on Sutton.

5) I distinctly remember most on here applauding the Haley hire at the time (including myself)...he certainly overstayed his welcome so I'd put that one Tomlin but I definitely have high expectations for the offense now that the shackles of Haley have been removed.
 
What Burns is missing is experience. Still a young player
 
The Steelers would love for Burns to develop into a true No. 1 cornerback, something that can take time.

For example, Josh Norman didn’t really blossom as a coverage player until his third season. And it wasn’t until he turned 24 that Richard Sherman turned into a true shutdown cornerback.

Like a fine wine, cornerbacks can get better with age, so long as they still have their ability to run. Burns might be reaching that point where he’s got the perfect blend of experience to go along with his athleticism.

But he’ll have to continue to grow, both on and off the field.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2018/05/24/steelers-burns-mature/
 
Tommy8Maddox said:
You're going to single out FOUR games and think that's a worthy comparison? Um okay.... no.
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Believe me if he had went 1-3 or 0-4 it would be used against him um okay... yes
 
nitsuj1225 said:
1) Those games were most certainly "film aided" though. Just ask Hines.

2) Clock management can mean a few different things. If we're talking strictly the ability to squeeze out extra points through the use of timeouts and clock saving plays, then I agree there is no clock management issue with Tomlin and I would say he's top 3 in the league in making sure we score some points before halftime and also makes sure we have time for game winning drives. So yeah Coach is bitching just to ***** there. My issue with clock management falls more on Ben...usually he's too quick to call a timeout when a simple no huddle would do and leaves more time for the other team to go down and score. This flaw has become more exposed as our defense has worsened.

3) Tomlin is clearly better than those 4. Marvin Lewis makes Tomlin look like Vince Lombardi. Love the 4th down and 2 point conversion attempts. Usually hate the play call associated with them...QB sneak would solve 75% of the 4th and shorts we failed. Hopefully with Haley gone that changes and we see the percentages work in our favor like they're supposed to. I think Tomlin's weakness in this regard are his onside kick decisions. Again, as the D has gotten worse, those decisions become more exposed.

4) Coach kind of has a point that our CB play has been underwhelming for the most part. Whether that's Lake or Tomlin's fault or both, not quite sure. Burns is above average but seems to be missing something that would make him really good. Ike was our last true shutdown corner but became that way under Cowher. Cowher also had his fair share of CB busts too so it's not like I'm saying he's a CB guru either. Hilton was definitely a diamond in the rough who maybe just needed the opportunity so props to Tomlin for giving it to him. Keenan Lewis had a really good season before leaving and maybe he would've been Tomlin's guy if the Saints didn't lure him away. Way too early to make a call on Sutton.

5) I distinctly remember most on here applauding the Haley hire at the time (including myself)...he certainly overstayed his welcome so I'd put that one Tomlin but I definitely have high expectations for the offense now that the shackles of Haley have been removed.
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I'm with you on Ben and his calling of TOs when he doesn't have to, or calling them too early, leaving time for the other team. His talent and our D, I'll agree, diminish those short comings. They become more impactful when the D can't bail you out anymore.

Good points about Keenan Lewis, he was really good for us, back when we thought Curtis Brown was going to come on. He didn't, and Keenan dealt with some injuries, so not sure if he would have been as healthy here either.
 
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Shades is above-the-line, if you will, at the present time, and a top five coach, obviously.
If he were coaching in the 70's he would regularly get his *** handed to him by Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, George Allen, John Madden, Bud Grant, and Don Shula.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Here they are again in case you missed them or ignored them

Ben's stats from 2010 on in the playoffs

Baltimore 19 32 59.38% 226yds 2td 0int 101.8 passer rating 6sacks. WIN

NY jets 10 com 19 att 52.63% 133yds 0td 2int 35.5 passer rating 2 sacks WIN

Green Bay 25com 40att 62.50% 263 2tds 2int 77.4 passer rating 1 sacks LOSS

2011
Denver 22com 40att 55.00% 289yds 1td 1int 75.9 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2014
Baltmore 31com 45att 68.89 334yds 1td 2int 79.3 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2015
Bengals 18com 31att 58.06% 229yds 1tds 0int 92.0 passer rating 3 sacks WIN

Denver 24com 37att 64.86% 339yds 0tds 0int 94.3 passer rating 3sacks. LOSS

2016
Miami 13com 18att 72.22% 197yds 2td 2int 105.3 passer rating 1 sack. WIN

Kansas City 20com 31att 64.52% 224yds 0tds 1int 72.5 passer rating 1sack. WIN

Patriots 31com 47att 65.96& 314yds 1td 1int 83.1passer rating 0 sacks. LOSS

2017
Jags 37com 58att 63.79% 469yds 5tds 1int 110.5 passer rating 2 sacks 1 fumble. LOSS
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antdrewjosh said:
Where did i say Ben was the lone factor in that game?? Im on record for saying everyone sucked in that game. That is one game by the way where ben was good. And in that good he also made two mistakes that didnt help anything. There are other games where he was also good baltimore 2010 and Denver 2015?(Fitz fumble)Played well no mistakes. 3 games out of 9. is that an elite playoff performer?? So again how has Tomlin wasted Ben years when he hasnt consistently performed well himself
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antdrewjosh said:
I dont have to admit anything. Because this thread was about Tomlin being elite. Do you see a post by me calling him elite? Where have i sang the graces of Tomlin in this thread? I responded to Warriors post..he said Tomlin has wasted Ben years..i responded how can waste his years when playoff stats show Ben hasnt played well consistently in the playoffs since 2010.

And again for the thousand time it has nothing to do with who is the coach.. i place more emphasis on player mistakes because thats what i can see..as long as been here you have never heard me speculate on our coach or even another teams coach mistakes cause unless its blatantly obvious i dont know.. but i can see a drop a fumble a miss tackle etc.. so its not something i do just for Tomlin its something i do for all coaches..

But no you may not be any different then DBS who straight up called me racist earlier in this thread..its a black thing right. Smh if im wrong i apologize
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Since no one else directly addressed your contention (and I just finished reading this thread which also happened to be the last time I posted), I'll give it a go.

You're evidently referencing Ben's stats from 2010 and later because...? Not sure why 2007 isn't included, I get 2008 because they won the SB, but 2010 was a pretty good season, IMO, and a 6-point loss in the SB, including a late drive-killing fumble by Rashard Mendenhall, is tough to for me to classify as a "wasted Ben year."

You claim that Ben has had 3 good playoff games out of 9 since 2010. First of all, he's played in 11 games since that point, not 9, since we're all about the facts here. Not included in your three choices is the Miami game (2016), where Ben compiled a 105.3 rating highlighted by an off-the-charts 10.9 yards per attempt. Didn't care for that one? Also absent from your list is the 18-16 win over the Bengals (2015), during which Ben threw for 229 yards and a touchdown without an INT, managing a 92 rating in a driving rainstorm. Not good enough for you?

The Steelers' playoff record is 5-6 in your allotted time frame. Ben had five games well over his career playoff passer rating average of 86.5 during that stretch, 1 near it, 4 below it, and 1 well below it (his one truly awful performance vs the Jets). In fact, his two worst ratings still resulted in Pittsburgh wins.

To me, the much more telling number is points allowed by the Steelers. In all 6 losses, they gave up 23 or more points, including well over 30 in their latest two defeats. With the lone exception of the 2010 Baltimore victory (31-24), they held the opposition to 19 points or less in every win.

Imagine that.
 
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No, he's an average head coach with a top team around him. Any head coach with Kevin Colbert and Ben Roethlibserger would have won a super bowl too of he's been here 10+ years.
 
Coach said:
No, he's an average head coach with a top team around him. Any head coach with Kevin Colbert and Ben Roethlibserger would have won a super bowl too of he's been here 10+ years.
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Just wondering... if Tomlin's teams would have gotten the calls week in and week out...year in and year out by officials do you think he would be elite?
 
Dang ole grave robbers digging up a thread that’s been dead for months.
 
DBS1970 said:
Dang ole grave robbers digging up a thread that’s been dead for months.
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I am sure this thread will get revisited during the season

for better or worse.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Shades is above-the-line, if you will, at the present time, and a top five coach, obviously.
If he were coaching in the 70's he would regularly get his *** handed to him by Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, George Allen, John Madden, Bud Grant, and Don Shula.
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I agree, but it was a different era. Players were allowed to play and defenses were aggressive.

The bloated, subjective rule book has put shackles on teams, resulting in wins and loses at the whims of an official.

Tomlin is a good, not great coach, but he has fielded teams during his tenure that have been competitive and entertaining to watch. He must have some part in that.

I'm not really sure that with these rule changes and the social changes that put individual players in front of the team, there are any really elite coaches these days. Certainly not compared to those you listed.

And that includes Darth Hoodie*****
 
Of course Tomlin is an elite coach in NFL!!! Not only showing success with the Steelers, keep in mind he is very pivotal in putting the team together. The 53 man roster gets his final view not to mention his weight in selecting the draft picks and potential free agents. More than just coaching on the field...….GO Steelers!!!!
 
I see what you are saying. It is possible to be an elite coach without the elite QB.

Bill Parcells (Simms; Hostetler, Bledsoe, Testeverde, Romo)
Joe Gibbs (Theismann, Schroder, Williams)

I dont believe any of those guys are wearing gold jackets, but those coaches sure are.
 
I think Tomlin's best qualities are as a delegator and motivator (sans unleashing hell) I think he places a lot of trust in his coordinators and assistants, which he should. On gameday,he takes ownership of clock management and game strategy( going for it on 4th, 1 or 2, challenge or dont challenge) A few of these areas he is questionable at best. I think Mike Tomlin is a good coach. He is our coach for the forseeeable future.

However when I think of an elite coach, I think the word innovator needs to be involved. I don't see anything different that Mike has done.
 
He needs another Super Bowl victory on his resume to even have the "elite" discussion.
 
Well, with the talent this team possesses barring any major injuries to key players, I will closely be watching how this team performs this season.
If I see the same mistakes made by Tomlin over the years which lead to a disappointing ending, then I will make my evaluation, not that it really matters.


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