He had one fuckup in clock management last year. I'd say that's elite.
Name it...
Name it...
Is Mike Tomlin an Elite Coach?
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I don't think that team you are speaking of head coach is elite. I think he is a piece of **** and should have been banned from the NFL years ago. If it wasn't for the owner owning HUGE cable TV and putting big add money into the NFL, the favoritism may have never of happened and yopu'd have a losing coach similar to the loser he was at Cleveland.
Did I happen to mention the CHEATRIOTS entire organization including the head coach,.......SUCK
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I do not think Tomlin is elite. He is too stubborn. I feel that he sticks with bad decisions rather than admitting he could've been wrong.
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I believe the original question wss whether Tomlin is elite or not. The question was NOT whether or not Tomlin sucks balls.
I think most of us can agree Tomlin is neither elite NOR does he suck balls.
I think most of us can agree Tomlin is neither elite NOR does he suck balls.
That would lock him into 3rd place, behind Noll and Cowher.
Dang, I haven't been on the site for months, and I was reading the last thread I posted in. Sorry to bother you.
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Tomlin is an above average coach. Elite coaches maximize their talent base. Tomlin hasn't done that here up to now.
Your "study" has already been debunked, but let me ax you a question:
Since I'm sure the onside kick with two timeouts and the two minute warning still remaining wouldn't fall under your "clock management" umbrella (although it certainly should), what would you classify it as, per se?
General In-Game Management ****-Up?
Field Position Idiocy?
Destroying Any Chances of a Realistic Comeback by Your Future HOF Quarterback?
Name it.
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The on side kick gave them two chances of getting the ball back. On the kick or on downs. When the kick failed they still could have held on downs and get the ball back. They didn't. They gave up a first. Or maybe I just remember it incorrectly.
You are indeed mistaken. The Steelers stopped them on three downs, and rather than having to punt from their own territory, Jacksonville kicked the game-clinching field goal.
And that chance of getting the ball back via the expected onside kick was minuscule, considering the Steelers were 0-14 on such attempts since 2008. Now they're 0-15. In no way was it worth risking that amount of field position with three clock stoppages available.
Also, if anyone can explain why Tomlin decided to squib-kick it directly to the lone Jacksonville deep man with one second left on the clock, instead of pooching it up in the air to at least give his team a chance (however tiny) to fight for the ball, I'd love to hear it.
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Clock management is within 2 minutes of the half and game.
You're pissed that they didn't recover a surprise onside kick. You can disagree with the coaching move, but statistically, you have a 35% chance of getting an onside kick outside of a final chance on side kick, that the other team knows is coming, is prepared for, and has their hands team on the field (5%).
It's a numbers game weighing the statistical probability of success, and giving your team the best chance to win. It's why we go for 2 more than any other team, because statistically, per point, it is the most efficient way to score.
It's also why we are playing the stats to win games. When we are on offense and need a first down to ice the game, we don't turtle and run it, we go for the distance, and put the ball in the air to close out games. Happened 3 times last season.
I also remember him going for it at the end of a game in SD, with no time remaining, to win it in regulation on a Bell run. The stats to get 1yd (75%) vs going to OT (50%) were the better percentage, and we benefited from that call.
Sure the outcome can go the other way, but that's why you take chances in football. Coaches that take chances, at the right times, win more often (Bellicheck, Tomlin) coaches that play it safe do not (Lewis, Edwards).
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CUSP
Salute the nation
Salute the nation
FYI, both of those teams had top defenses those seasons, so there is that as well. And Ben had nice comebacks in both of those games.
Really? Says who? You? So you're trying to tell me that there is no consideration whatsoever for the clock during the other 56 minutes of the football game? How about when the Steelers called a timeout with 3:20 left in the game, down by two touchdowns, in control of the ball ON OFFENSE, WITH A FIRST-AND-TEN? Was that wise management of the clock? Oh wait, somehow it was 1:20 away from mattering, in your world.
Cope said:
What "surprise"? Jacksonville DID have their hands team on the field. Yeah, the league average is around 5%, and the Steelers are 0% for their last 15 attempts. Thanks for proving my point.
Cope said:
I wonder what the success rate of going for 2 from the 12 is. I wonder what the success percentage is for sneaks on 4th-and-inches by 6'5" 240-pound quarterbacks. I wonder what the success percentage of kicking it directly at the lone deep man down the field was.
I don't mind selective aggression, but coaches who make stupid decisions lose important playoff games (Tomlin).
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you meant, "no, there's doubt about it".
we toss around the word "elite" far too freely.
he's decent, but elite? get the **** out of here.
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Mike Tomlin an elite coach? Don't make me laugh! He has destroyed a top rank Defense in as little as three years! This Defense is a joke. When Ben's career is over we are going to look back at his later years of his career and see that he was one of the most consistent QB's but because Tomlin has all but destroyed this Defense....and yes it's Tomlin's fingerprints all over this one....not Keith Butler....including the Defensive play calling. If Cowher was the Steelers Head Coach right now I honestly think Ben and the Steelers would have had two or three more Super Bowl rings. Tomlin's Defense has really cast a dark cloud over Ben's career.
Ben & the Offense will need to score 45 PPG this season to guarantee a win....this Defense can't tackle and isn't capable of playing good fundamental football. The Steelers ILB's with the exception of Vince Williams are a complete joke! Bostic stinks! Matakevich & LJ Fort are not the answer either! They better find some ILB who can come in and make an impact. What about signing Navarro Bowman? He certainly can't be any worse than what they are putting on that field Defensively now! Very frustrating......this season almost feels like it's over before it begins because of the lack of ability from our ILB's.
Ben & the Offense will need to score 45 PPG this season to guarantee a win....this Defense can't tackle and isn't capable of playing good fundamental football. The Steelers ILB's with the exception of Vince Williams are a complete joke! Bostic stinks! Matakevich & LJ Fort are not the answer either! They better find some ILB who can come in and make an impact. What about signing Navarro Bowman? He certainly can't be any worse than what they are putting on that field Defensively now! Very frustrating......this season almost feels like it's over before it begins because of the lack of ability from our ILB's.
Those selective off tempo TOs Ben called didn't hurt us in any end game or end half this season. Tomlin isn't calling those TOs, Ben is.
Steelers have only kicked 2 onside kicks outside of 2 minutes under Tomlin. Against Green Bay, and against JAX in the playoffs. We didn't recover either. Beat GB but lost to JAX.
I will agree with you that going for 2 from the 12 is ridiculous if it isn't end game.
Also maddened me that we didn't sneak in 4 years under Haley. That is a valid point, and one that Tomlin needed to Veto. His inaction there is his fault.
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Call it what you want. Tomlin is a top 5 coach in the NFL today, that's elite enough for me.
Fix the ****** defense or he can take his elite self and coach somewhere else.
An elite coach is a coach that wins without top talent, Bellichik, Doug peterson etc. Those guys have won with 2nd and 3rd tier skill position guys and pederson with a backup qb.
Not a coach that CONSISTENTLY gets beat by subpar talent.
Mike Tomlin is not Elite
Not a coach that CONSISTENTLY gets beat by subpar talent.
Mike Tomlin is not Elite
Elite means one of best ever. Top 5 in a league with average at best coaches does not make you elite. Do you think the Steelers have accomplished what they should have in Tomlins time here is the question? Anything other than exceeding what this team should have would exclude him from elite
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Elite also is able to evaluate talent, after two preseason games and all of training camp Steelers have had no one stand out. The biggest thing is who Tomlin has though had all this talent and drafted and yet have not shown reedy to play let alone stand out. His high drafts , you need to look them up and see what number they are to know if they are on the field.
If it is indeed Ben calling those "selective off tempo TOs," he shouldn't be. Tomlin should be the guy controlling the clock. He's the head coach, not Ben. I don't have time to verify your assertion that it "didn't hurt us" this past season, but even if that is the case, it's bad time management to waste a timeout on offense in those types of situations. Period.
Yes, the Steelers suck on onside kicks. We know that. Especially with Boswell (remember the Bizarro reverse-foot job a few years back?). That's why it was a particularly bad decision.
Glad we can agree on some things.