nah i dont attack anyone dont lump me with him
Is Mike Tomlin an Elite Coach?
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nah i dont attack anyone dont lump me with him
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Well, Ike,
In case you fail to notice, I don't say my opinion alone. I back them up with data, quotes ( Like when Ben and others said Tomlin's stay in the locker room to avoid the national anthem ) was a distraction in a loss to a bad Chicago Bears team, and some football content*much to your chagrin.
In case you forgot, many of minority owners wanted cool shady out.
I'm sure your perfectly happy with the Steelers being 3-6 in their last nine playoff games.
Keep up read the thread..my post was in response to Warriors post. Who claimed Tomlin has wasted Ben years. I responded Ben hasnt played well in a majority of these playoff games..posted stats that prove just that..
Ben two turnovers dont get dismissed by me they were huge and played apart of the game
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4 of Chin’s wins with Ben during the same playoff streak.
Lol.....lack of coaching on the sideline. “Sometimes his headset is up”? Hahahaha.......Brilliant observational of what it means to be a coach!!
You are such a tool. Never knew you were on the sideline to see what goes on during a NFL coached game. Oh wait, you never have.
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You don’t state your opinions alone? You back the up with quotes, data, your dream states? First off, link from Ben saying Tomlin or any coach told them to stay in the tunnel.
Second, it was the players decision in what they did, Tomlin didn’t care what decision was made, as long as it was united with 100% participation. It wasn’t because Big Al got separated in between the captains while the field crew were coming off the field at the same time the anthem was started.
You use of quotes, data or whatever you call facts are misconstrued to prove your BS opinions.
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As I stated earlier, Tomlin is upper echelon, but not elite.
If Ben hadn't saved the day, with his incredible pump fakes, running for his life, Cool Shades would have ZERO super bowl wins at this stage. How Ben didn't get that Super Bowl MVP is beyond me.
If Ben hadn't saved the day, with his incredible pump fakes, running for his life, Cool Shades would have ZERO super bowl wins at this stage. How Ben didn't get that Super Bowl MVP is beyond me.
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Screw the defense, situational play calling, special teams, in game adjustments, clock management, it all comes down to Ben's turnover ratio.
Where did i say Ben was the lone factor in that game?? Im on record for saying everyone sucked in that game. That is one game by the way where ben was good. And in that good he also made two mistakes that didnt help anything. There are other games where he was also good baltimore 2010 and Denver 2015?(Fitz fumble)Played well no mistakes. 3 games out of 9. is that an elite playoff performer?? So again how has Tomlin wasted Ben years when he hasnt consistently performed well himself
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Oh no, Ben threw a couple picks, of course we lost! No coach or team has ever overcome a couple turnovers or a bad showing from their QB...
What I said was referring to any game in general, not just the Jags game. And you may not have explicitly said it but you are certainly implying Ben is the lone or at least biggest factor in Tomlin's shortcomings.
With that said, Haley was more of an issue than Tomlin has ever been regarding the offense. We'll see if that holds true this season. Now the defense on the other hand...can't blame Ben for that...although I'm sure it's anything but Tomlin's fault.
Nope wrong again i merely stated that saying Tomlin has wasted Ben as said by Warriors is to me false. How can you say someone has wasted someone years when that person hasnt played well. Especially when that person is usually the focal point of your game plan. I posted the stats and lo and behold there are instances where the team has won in the playoffs despite Ben not playing well. Again though is that a sustainable way to win super bowls??
Ben is a huge part of Tomlins success cause you need a franchise QB to win. That being said that franchise guy has to perforn well in the playoffs to have success.. it was that way for all the great coaches before him. Why is he the lone exception to this? I posted the stats point them out where ben was great and we lost in the playoffs.. and im pretty sure its the same for all other coach/QB combos
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As has been said before, nobody is FAULTLESS in a loss, including Ben. So you're right, he's not perfect. But you never put ANY blame on Tomlin. And let's look at this loss to Jacksonville in this year's playoff. Do you really blame Ben for that? Really? He played MORE than well enough to win, but our defense, which is supposedly Tomlin's expertise, let us down big time. You want to blame players, that's fine, and it's fair, but you continuously give Tomlin a complete pass.
Have you seriously not seen Black and Gold Bleeders signature??? I blamed every player and EVERY COACH that came out the locker room and participated against the jacksonville jaguars.. you can search it up.
And i already said the Jacksonville game was one of Bens better games in the playoffs since 2010. Does he get a pass for contributing 14 points or at least 10 points to the opposing team.. NO why cause they occured early. The two dumb *** 4th down plays were early does Tomlin get a pass for the stupid sweep by you cause it occured early?? No. They all sucked and ive said this already
Yes, I've seen the quote, it still leaves the fact that any time anybody dares to criticize Tomlin, you get in a huff and act like it's the most horrible thing in the world. You constantly put the lion's share of blame on Ben, even when he clearly was not the main culprit (and to be fair SOMETIMES he is). But we've been through this before. When somebody brings up the consistent failures (and I mean over years) in making in game changes, effective clock management, playing down to lesser teams, being outcoached and out prepared, you ALWAYS deflect and blame others. Then you give some halfhearted "everybody sucked" after spending hours defending every move Tomlin did or did not make. You HAVE to admit you give Tomlin WAY MORE leeway than anybody else.
This is absolutely true.
I dont have to admit anything. Because this thread was about Tomlin being elite. Do you see a post by me calling him elite? Where have i sang the graces of Tomlin in this thread? I responded to Warriors post..he said Tomlin has wasted Ben years..i responded how can waste his years when playoff stats show Ben hasnt played well consistently in the playoffs since 2010.
And again for the thousand time it has nothing to do with who is the coach.. i place more emphasis on player mistakes because thats what i can see..as long as been here you have never heard me speculate on our coach or even another teams coach mistakes cause unless its blatantly obvious i dont know.. but i can see a drop a fumble a miss tackle etc.. so its not something i do just for Tomlin its something i do for all coaches..
But no you may not be any different then DBS who straight up called me racist earlier in this thread..its a black thing right. Smh if im wrong i apologize
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drew in one debate told me he favored the coaches, as well as Cowher etc. So I can see how his debate approach would lean positively toward the coach. I have to take him for his word, and apologize for the racist angle I threw out way back when.
On the thread premise, I still don't necessarily agree that Tomlin is a elite coach a elite coach should be enough to win a SB or two more if he is learning from old mistakes.
Which the jury is still out on.
Like I said to one poster win a SB and I think it is fair to bump him up a level. But he has to have the desirable outcome. Not this one and done in the playoffs or a lack of SB appearances to show for effort.
I also think the D has to shoulder a decent amount of the blame. As they have looked soft against the run, and the FS was more often than not a step late.
I think a lot of pieces are in place. I look forward to seeing this team improve this year.
As I think they attacked pretty much everything that they could of.
Now it is up to the coaches to put it all together.
I think better depth and competition will help as far as from a player standpoint. All the way up to Ben. Who has a little something extra to motivate with.
On the thread premise, I still don't necessarily agree that Tomlin is a elite coach a elite coach should be enough to win a SB or two more if he is learning from old mistakes.
Which the jury is still out on.
Like I said to one poster win a SB and I think it is fair to bump him up a level. But he has to have the desirable outcome. Not this one and done in the playoffs or a lack of SB appearances to show for effort.
I also think the D has to shoulder a decent amount of the blame. As they have looked soft against the run, and the FS was more often than not a step late.
I think a lot of pieces are in place. I look forward to seeing this team improve this year.
As I think they attacked pretty much everything that they could of.
Now it is up to the coaches to put it all together.
I think better depth and competition will help as far as from a player standpoint. All the way up to Ben. Who has a little something extra to motivate with.
You know damn well now we're talking about how you've been the defender against all things slightly critical of Tomlin for years. Come on man. You also know damn well that the things I listed in my last post have been problems under Tomlin for years. We've been over this many times before. You consistently want to put the blame on Ben, with none on Tomlin. Sometimes Ben is to blame more than anybody, but more often that not, that is NOT the case. Ben has played well enough that we should have more than 1 title during Tomlin's years. I can't prove that, it's not a fact, but I do firmly believe it's true. As far as successes go, there is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that Ben has been infinitely more valuable to this team then Tomlin. Without Ben bailing him out multiple times each year, I firmly believe Mike would've been replaced a long time ago.
I hope I'm dead wrong, and Tomlin comes out this year and does an amazing job, leading this extremely talented team to a title. Maybe he'll finally address the problems I listed, and have this team prepared week in a week out (yeah, I know, that's the players responsibility, not the coach, blah, blah, blah) and prove that he is indeed elite. I sincerely hope that happens. I just have very little faith it will. And the worst part of it is I truly believe that a better coach, with this team, would get a helluva lot more out of them.
I hope I'm dead wrong, and Tomlin comes out this year and does an amazing job, leading this extremely talented team to a title. Maybe he'll finally address the problems I listed, and have this team prepared week in a week out (yeah, I know, that's the players responsibility, not the coach, blah, blah, blah) and prove that he is indeed elite. I sincerely hope that happens. I just have very little faith it will. And the worst part of it is I truly believe that a better coach, with this team, would get a helluva lot more out of them.
Also if you have an issue with his clock management see Cope's spreadsheet he says this is fallacy. Go tell him how he wrong and he is just being lenient towards Tomlin
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And again why are you talking about that im not. But you just want to jump there with prejudice towards me on this particular subject, again this thread is asking is he elite..did i say he was? Good coach for right now. Top 5 for right now.. is he one of the greatest of all time nope you never heard me say that.
To win super bowls you must perform well in the playoffs so where since 2010 has Ben played well to you. Point them out i already did. SO AGAIN PROVE THAT BEN YEARS HAVE BEEN WASTED BY TOMLIN..CAUSE TO ME THAT MEANS HE HAS CONSISTENTLY PERFORMED WELL AND BEEN LET DOWN BY THE REST OF THE TEAM DEFICIENCIES UNDER TOMLIN. The jacksonville game was one game. He played well better then his stats since 2010 indicate. And still he isnt blameless he helped put us in a hole. Is that factual?
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Actually, I have to admit, I did see dramatic improvement this past season in clock management, so you're right, I should remove that from my list of complaints. Hopefully he can improve in the other areas as well. And legit kudos to him for showing growth in that.
But honestly, I should've known better than to wade into this discussion with you. You're right, Mike Tomlin is the greatest coach ever. Every decision is flawless, and we should be so thankful he graces us with his presence. Everything that goes wrong is Ben's fault, and the head coach is not responsible for everything. Of course, I'm being facetious and exaggerating, but you do act like nothing is Tomlin's fault. You also act like Ben is the overwhelming number one reason we've bailed out in the playoffs every single time, and that's simply not true. Ben shares in the blame, as does Bell, the line, especially the defense. But the responsibility, ultimately, falls on the guy in charge. Especially when it happens again, and again, and again. But you consistently refuse to acknowledge Tomlin's share of the blame, and put way too much on our hall of fame quarterback. Do you really think this team would've gotten farther with Tomlin at the helm and a different QB? It's possible, but I would reckon no. Do you think it's possible that with better coaching, but with Ben, we may have gotten farther? Again, there's no way to know for sure, but I think we probably would have.
You take criticism of Tomlin as if it's a personal slight on you. To some degree, we're all guilty of that, myself included, but you take it to a whole new level. It SEEMS as if one guy (Tomlin) is more important to you than the team.
Just ask yourself, as a Steeler fan, are you truly satisfied with Tomlin's results the past 10 years? I'm not talking about Ben, Haley, or anybody else, this is simply a question about Tomlin. Has his individual performance been up to the TRUE Steelers standard? If you honestly think it is, that's fine. It's not a right or wrong answer. But please be honest.
But honestly, I should've known better than to wade into this discussion with you. You're right, Mike Tomlin is the greatest coach ever. Every decision is flawless, and we should be so thankful he graces us with his presence. Everything that goes wrong is Ben's fault, and the head coach is not responsible for everything. Of course, I'm being facetious and exaggerating, but you do act like nothing is Tomlin's fault. You also act like Ben is the overwhelming number one reason we've bailed out in the playoffs every single time, and that's simply not true. Ben shares in the blame, as does Bell, the line, especially the defense. But the responsibility, ultimately, falls on the guy in charge. Especially when it happens again, and again, and again. But you consistently refuse to acknowledge Tomlin's share of the blame, and put way too much on our hall of fame quarterback. Do you really think this team would've gotten farther with Tomlin at the helm and a different QB? It's possible, but I would reckon no. Do you think it's possible that with better coaching, but with Ben, we may have gotten farther? Again, there's no way to know for sure, but I think we probably would have.
You take criticism of Tomlin as if it's a personal slight on you. To some degree, we're all guilty of that, myself included, but you take it to a whole new level. It SEEMS as if one guy (Tomlin) is more important to you than the team.
Just ask yourself, as a Steeler fan, are you truly satisfied with Tomlin's results the past 10 years? I'm not talking about Ben, Haley, or anybody else, this is simply a question about Tomlin. Has his individual performance been up to the TRUE Steelers standard? If you honestly think it is, that's fine. It's not a right or wrong answer. But please be honest.
Nothing but hyperbole.. either try stick to the facts or just let it be. Personal slight AGAIN I responded to one narrative ithis thread posted by one individual..
As a steelers fan hell no im not satisfied super bowl or bust every year for me. If you could ask my family and friends they will tell you..you cant even talk to me for at least a month when we dont win the super bowl..
Tomlin has been good i cant point to one thing to where he is soley responsible for us not winning another super bowl..has he made mistakes of course everyone has.. has he ever lost a team respect nope not that know of. Do his teams play hard and compete yep.. you may want to point to the defense i give you that.. but i will say losing shazier was huge. Others may want to point to this high powered offense we have. Except they havent performed that way when it mattered. But thats on the coach i know..
But again are we competive every damn year yep
Lastly i asked you has Ben consistently above the line in the playoffs since 2010? Can you name a coach who has consistently won without consistent above average QB play in the playoffs.
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I'm curious,
What makes him upper echelon in your opinion?
He loses more often to .500 and below teams than other upper echelon coaches.
His clock management has been poor during his tenure.
His situational coaching is poor. He goes for it when he should have tried the field goal and tries the field goal when he should have gone for it. Other times he risks a foolish onside kick with a lot of time on the clock.
Tomlin is supposedly a DB coach. Have any of our DB's under his tenure? Haden does not count, he was a Brown.
His record in the playoffs lately is very poor.
Did he hire good OC's and DC's?
Sure Tomlin has a great team around him, and Ben is about as good as they get with 4th quarter comebacks...but that is not him.* Barry Swtizer and George Siefert had good regular season records too...taking over super bowl teams.
Bill Cowher 2006