Coaches

[Vader]

Only because it was that playoff run where we turned him loose. Before that we had not previously depended on him like that before. It's really not that hard to understand..

HAHA "only because" you needed to make a point and didn't care what year it was. When I use his rookie year that's off limits because.. reasons? Yea, it's really not that hard to understand. Like I said, even after his 2nd year he played many games where he didn't play great and won.

Even during his rookie season they needed him to play great a few games. Take the NY Giants game for example. How about when he came back to beat Dallas that year? But you don't remember that either.The only thing that matters is defending Tomlin and bashing Ben to make Tomlin look good. I get it man.

 

[antdrewjosh]

HAHA "only because" you needed to make a point and didn't care what year it was. When I use his rookie year that's off limits because.. reasons? Yea, it's really not that hard to understand. Like I said, even after his 2nd year he played many games where he didn't play great and won.

Even during his rookie season they needed him to play great a few games. Take the NY Giants game for example. How about when he came back to beat Dallas that year? But you don't remember that either.The only thing that matters is defending Tomlin and bashing Ben to make Tomlin look good. I get it man.

It's like talking to a wall..I used one game off the top of my head and if you can remember a time period before that playoff run where Ben was the focal point of the offensive game plan like he is NOW. Yes there were instances, drives where we asked Ben to step up that's way different then him being the focal point of the game plan..So you bringing up his rookie season makes no sense..

 

[diver]

Driver said that he wants a "guarantee" that the coach is better. Do you understand that? How can you guarantee that? You can't. That's what he does. He puts out something that is impossible and then comes back with "might as well keep Tomlin". He doesn't want Tomlin gone. Can't you understand that. He's using an impossible measure so that he can basically say "Tomlin needs to stay".

Nobody has ever said Ben plays up to that billing every game. No QB does. It's a strawman. Many of the Tomlin lovers were talking about how unstoppable the offense was this year and that nobody wanted to play them in the playoffs. You can't come back now and say Ben isn't a franchise QB and he sucks. It's bullshit. If his WRs catch the balls thrown to them this isn't even a conversation. Remember those great WRs that Tomlin drafts so well? The ones that haven't won a single playoff game?

BTW Ben's rookie year he didn't play up to the "standard" a lot of those games and they still went 13-0 with Ben.

It's impossible? The way you guys act, you could find anyone. Tomlin is terrible. So shouldn't be entirely possible?

If there is a guy out there that commands respect and has control, that is where I look first. Tomlin appears to have that. To me it starts there. Sure another coach is going to have some issues I am sure, just different than Tomlin's. But he has to have respect from and control of the players. That has to be the guarantee. If not I can guarantee one thing, it will be worse, a hell of a lot worse.

For the last time, I will not lose sleep if they fire Tomlin and bring in a guy like above. You think I would care one bit if in some fantasy land they were able to get rid of Tomlin and bring back Cowher?

 

[slashsteel]

Respect only goes so far. winning is the bottom line... They are out there to win, if you aren't trending in that direction why should you stay?


Unless mediocre and not sniffing another SB is ok under Tomlin.

Hell they can't even win a playoff game let alone reach the SB.

And control the players? I am not sure we can give that to Tomlin.

Control would entail them playing as a team instead of more as individuals.

Control would have them in the playoffs instead of on the ouside looking in.

It isn't like they had to beat a fricken good team.

The Rats had more injuries than any other team and you come in and look unprepared.

But **** Tomlin has their respect let him stay.


got damn it mane...

 

[diver]

Respect only goes so far. winning is the bottom line... They are out there to win, if you aren't trending in that direction why should you stay?


Unless mediocre and not sniffing another SB is ok under Tomlin.

Hell they can't even win a playoff game let alone reach the SB.

And control the players? I am not sure we can give that to Tomlin.

Control would entail them playing as a team instead of more as individuals.

Control would have them in the playoffs instead of on the ouside looking in.

It isn't like they had to beat a fricken good team.

The Rats had more injuries than any other team and you come in and look unprepared.

But **** Tomlin has their respect let him stay.


got damn it mane...

They will not win if they don't respect the coach.

Notice I have used the word "appears" or "seems to" in describing the respect I think Tomlin has. None of us know for sure. So if would be determined he does not have that and that is why they lose those winnable games, get rid of him.

You guys do realize that outside of this board Tomlin is considered a top coach. I listen to some of the Philly stations. I like to hear them whine about Kelly and so on. I have heard a number of people say they would love a Tomlin.

So, depending on who you talk to, it will be tough finding better.

 

[slashsteel]

They will not win if they don't respect the coach.

Notice I have used the word "appears" or "seems to" in describing the respect I think Tomlin has. None of us know for sure. So if would be determined he does not have that and that is why they lose those winnable games, get rid of him.

You guys do realize that outside of this board Tomlin is considered a top coach. I listen to some of the Philly stations. I like to hear them whine about Kelly and so on. I have heard a number of people say they would love a Tomlin.

So, depending on who you talk to, it will be tough finding better.

Many probably remember those two SBs and factor them in..

Nobody will argue he can manage to get his teams above 500

and for some fans that is enough....

But with a franchise QB I want more than mediocre.

I want a playoff win within a 5 year span.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

Again I will take a up year and a down year for a playoff win or a SB win over oh I managed to not have a losing season yippee.

Guess it depends on what you want or expect.

 

[diver]

Many probably remember those two SBs and factor them in..

Nobody will argue he can manage to get his teams above 500

and for some fans that is enough....

But with a franchise QB I want more than mediocre.

I want a playoff win within a 5 year span.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

Certainly not. I want more, too.

Does the franchise QB bear any responsibility?

 

[slashsteel]

Certainly not. I want more, too.

Does the franchise QB bear any responsibility?

The whole team does, and even moreso does the coach that is allowing repetitive mistakes.

I don't think there is a fan that would say Ben played well.

or the D played well.

But there is enough games of this and that playing below the line. Enough to the point it just isn't getting the job done.


because with this talent on O lets be real. Anything less than a playoff appearance is a fail, and it is again a reoccurring problem.

Was the practice lackadaisical leading up to the game?

The whole game just stunk of lack or preparation.

And year after year after year same issues.

So there is a point that you have to stop finger pointing the players and point toward the coach and GM.


It is where I am at..

 

[topseed]

It's impossible? The way you guys act, you could find anyone. Tomlin is terrible. So shouldn't be entirely possible?

If there is a guy out there that commands respect and has control, that is where I look first. Tomlin appears to have that. To me it starts there. Sure another coach is going to have some issues I am sure, just different than Tomlin's. But he has to have respect from and control of the players. That has to be the guarantee. If not I can guarantee one thing, it will be worse, a hell of a lot worse.

For the last time, I will not lose sleep if they fire Tomlin and bring in a guy like above. You think I would care one bit if in some fantasy land they were able to get rid of Tomlin and bring back Cowher?

Wait, according to you, a good coach has respect from the players. And control of the players. It's the very first thing you look for, yet it's a "stupid argument" to say that the same coach should motivate them? So what good are respect and control without accomplishing motivation for his players? Is he running a concentration camp?

Vader's right. You talk in circles.

 

[diver]

Wait, according to you, a good coach has respect from the players. And control of the players. It's the very first thing you look for, yet it's a "stupid argument" to say that the same coach should motivate them? So what good are respect and control without accomplishing motivation for his players? Is he running a concentration camp?

Vader's right. You talk in circles.

Bullshit. Commanding respect from the players and keeping control of the locker room (which is what I meant, and you damn well know it) are entirely different than motivating them. Chuck Noll had respect and keep control but wasted no time trying to motivate. As was stated earlier, that has to come form within each player. That rah, rah **** means nothing.

Did you play sports? Are you willing to state right here that you were an unmotivated guy, and needed some coach to help you get up? Cause in a way you are saying these guys are unmotivated lumps, and it is incumbent upon the coach not only to have the perfect game plan, make all the right calls, and on top of that motivate them. I never needed that ****. I would tune out. If at the very least you should be motivated enough to not embarrass yourself out there.

 

[diver]

Last thing I will say on this topic, then I am done. If you notice, you will never find a post where I defend Tomlin for drafting Jarvis Jones for example or some of his other personnel moves. You won't see me trying to defend a stupid fake or clock management. Those issues are completely fair and deserve criticism.

Ripping him for not motivating grown men or winning with someone else's players is stupid.

 

[ark steel]

In 2011 he took over a team that had not had a winning season since 2002. He proceeded to go 13-3 losing in the conference championship game, 11-4-1 losing in the Super Bowl & 12-4 losing in the conference championship. That's a pretty good run for someone that doesn't have the chops to cut it in the NFL.

My point is, he did not take over a team full of ****** players. There were some pretty stud players (Gore, Bowman, Willis, Iupati) with some other decent players. HE didn't put those players on the field and he didn't make them studs. Whether they had ever won anything before is irrelevant. Just Bowman/Willis is a pretty incredible start to a defense. Neither of the four I mentioned learned to play the day Harbaugh walked in.

What we know, for sure, is that after four years, when his stamp should be fully on the team, it went 8-8 and his owners were so tired of his bullshit, they couldn't wait to get rid of a coach that had gone to three straight championship games out of 4 years of coaching. That tells me he didn't have the chops to make it. I can't imagine getting rid of a stud employee who I would project earning my company more and more money unless there is something I know about the situation that the general public doesn't know. Maybe what they knew is that the early success had little to do with Harbaugh? Maybe it was something else.

 

[topseed]

Bullshit. Commanding respect from the players and keeping control of the locker room (which is what I meant, and you damn well know it) are entirely different than motivating them. Chuck Noll had respect and keep control but wasted no time trying to motivate. As was stated earlier, that has to come form within each player. That rah, rah **** means nothing.

Did you play sports? Are you willing to state right here that you were an unmotivated guy, and needed some coach to help you get up? Cause in a way you are saying these guys are unmotivated lumps, and it is incumbent upon the coach not only to have the perfect game plan, make all the right calls, and on top of that motivate them. I never needed that ****. I would tune out. If at the very least you should be motivated enough to not embarrass yourself out there.

I surely did play sports, but you've obviously never been employed in any type of leadership position. That much is clear.

 

[MT~Forged]

I still wish we had gotten Rivera instead.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I would never look to the college ranks for a coach. College football is rigged by an uneven playing field. I've watched Alabama roll out basically the same big strong fast guy at running back every play every year. My guess is their 4th guy could start on 2/3 of the other college teams. I don't think you can take much from their results.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Bullshit. Commanding respect from the players and keeping control of the locker room (which is what I meant, and you damn well know it) are entirely different than motivating them. Chuck Noll had respect and keep control but wasted no time trying to motivate. As was stated earlier, that has to come form within each player. That rah, rah **** means nothing.

Did you play sports? Are you willing to state right here that you were an unmotivated guy, and needed some coach to help you get up? Cause in a way you are saying these guys are unmotivated lumps, and it is incumbent upon the coach not only to have the perfect game plan, make all the right calls, and on top of that motivate them. I never needed that ****. I would tune out. If at the very least you should be motivated enough to not embarrass yourself out there.

Well I've either played or coached virtually every sport you can think of within reason (football, basketball, hockey, soccer, wrestling, track volleyball). I can tell you 100 percent that coaches do motivate players but not with some great speech. But through the person they are and the culture they create. And when the coach is always concerned about the pedigree of the player and trots out players based upon draft order then it creates a sick culture. I've been to two football congress where coaches from the Seattle Seahawks spoke. Rocky Seto and the Oline coach Pat (last name escapes me). I can assure you the head coach creates the culture and climate of not only accountability but the best player plays. You think Tomlin would have stepped up and taken responsibility for that Super Bowl loss. No ****** way. He would have said some flim flam Bullshit. It isn't the speech that motivates players it's the speaker. The Steelers have not been able to replace the team leadership of guys like Potsie and Ward that made Them great. And that flows from the top.

 

[Stainless]

My point is, he did not take over a team full of ****** players. There were some pretty stud players (Gore, Bowman, Willis, Iupati) with some other decent players. HE didn't put those players on the field and he didn't make them studs. Whether they had ever won anything before is irrelevant. Just Bowman/Willis is a pretty incredible start to a defense. Neither of the four I mentioned learned to play the day Harbaugh walked in.

What we know, for sure, is that after four years, when his stamp should be fully on the team, it went 8-8 and his owners were so tired of his bullshit, they couldn't wait to get rid of a coach that had gone to three straight championship games out of 4 years of coaching. That tells me he didn't have the chops to make it. I can't imagine getting rid of a stud employee who I would project earning my company more and more money unless there is something I know about the situation that the general public doesn't know. Maybe what they knew is that the early success had little to do with Harbaugh? Maybe it was something else.

Are you saying he had nothing to do with taking that stud team, who had not had a winning record for 9-10 years, to three straight championship games & a Super Bowl? Did they just suddenly decide they were going to start kicking everyone's ***? Whatever happened in year four probably had a lot more to do with things happening off the field. I'm not sure I would use that incredibly small sample to evaluate whether he can cut it in the NFL.

 

[ark steel]

Are you saying he had nothing to do with taking that stud team, who had not had a winning record for 9-10 years, to three straight championship games & a Super Bowl? Did they just suddenly decide they were going to start kicking everyone's ***? Whatever happened in year four probably had a lot more to do with things happening off the field. I'm not sure I would use that incredibly small sample to evaluate whether he can cut it in the NFL.

All that means is that he was better at HC than Singletary, doesn't it? I think if you look at it as critically as people do Tomlin, you see lots of warts. Different ones, maybe, but they are there.

I don't think he is any better than Tomlin.

What was going on off the field? Why was the SF FO so ready to get rid of an HC that had brought them so much success. Something off the field and/or they realized that he wasn't the answer? I'd say both and if it was something off the field by the players, why did he lose control.

Losing Bowman and Willis and iupati in one season to injury (you know the other guys players who didn't know what a football was before Harbaugh) and left with his own team had just as much to do with than off the field stuff.

 

[Stainless]

Yeah, I would say it means he's a better coach than Singletary. In fact, I would say it means he's a much, much better coach. Taking a perennial loser to two championship games and a Super Bowl in a three year span might even lend credence to the argument that he's a great coach. I certainly wouldn't judge him based solely upon one .500 season. To me that seems completely illogical. Based upon what little I know, I also would not attribute 100% blame to him for what seemed to become a severly clustered situation. I bet San Fran fans would love to have him back.

 

[nooneuno]

I bet San Fran fans would love to have him back.

yes, but would the players?

 

[Shane Falco]

I actually like Mike Pettinine. He reminds me of a young Bill Cowher. His downfall is being stuck in Cleveland.

 

[ark steel]

Yeah, I would say it means he's a better coach than Singletary. In fact, I would say it means he's a much, much better coach. Taking a perennial loser to two championship games and a Super Bowl in a three year span might even lend credence to the argument that he's a great coach. I certainly wouldn't judge him based solely upon one .500 season. To me that seems completely illogical. Based upon what little I know, I also would not attribute 100% blame to him for what seemed to become a severly clustered situation. I bet San Fran fans would love to have him back.

Why wouldn't he be the majority of the blame for the cluster ****?

 

[ark steel]

I actually like Mike Pettinine. He reminds me of a young Bill Cowher. His downfall is being stuck in Cleveland.

He might have some success elsewhere.

 

[Stainless]

Why wouldn't he be the majority of the blame for the cluster ****?

Why would he? Clusters usually consist of more than one participant. I don't know all the ins & outs of the situation. Perhaps you could share the intimate details from which you are deriving that it's all on him.

 

[Shane Falco]

He might have some success elsewhere.

I agree.