Coaches

[bmoritz]

Yeah, it's another coaches thread, but a little different, so I hope it's okay.

I see a lot of Tomlin "apologists" (for lack of a better term) asking who we'd rather have, which is a fair question. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few:

1. Staying in-house - Munchak. He has done an OUTSTANDING job with what was a below par line, and that's without the starting center. He has coaching experience, and has a Pittsburgh mentality.
2. I know I'll get blasted for this, and it probably won't happen as he loves where he is, but I'd throw the moon at Jim Harbaugh. Yes, he's a pain in the ***, but he's a helluva coach. He got a lot out of Colin Kapernick for crying out loud. He took a lowly 49ers team to the top, and look where they are without him. He'd probably love a chance to be in the same division as his brother, and ratchet the Steelers/Ravens rivalry through the roof.
3. David Shaw of Stanford - Excellent coach running a good pro style offense. I think he's ready for the jump up.
4. Part of me screams Urban Meyer - highly successful coach ready for the pros, but part of me hates how he handled the QB position.

I don't even sniff Chip Kelly. Hell, I'd rather keep Tomlin.

 

[Vader]

Not one person on here knew who the hell Tomlin was when he was with the Vikings. There are always DC, OC, positional coaches, college coaches ETC... that can be looked at as a HC. Staying with a coach because "who will you replace him with" is as stupid as firing a coach every year because there has to be someone better.

 

[wig]

1. So you'd be all for dismantling the good work that's been done on the line by taking away the coach you suggest is responsible. And who is this "starting center" you speak of? I haven't seen him for about a season and a half now.

2. The team was about ready to kill Harbaugh. They hated his head games. He was fine to start out but eventually they all turned on him. We don't want that here. Think Miami but with a talented team.

3 & 4. Rarely do college coaches make successful transitions to the pros. They are used to getting a few star athletes that overwhelm the mediocre talent put up against them. It's all about scouting and babysitting in the college ranks. In the NFL, you have to actually be able to coach a complete team of talented players against a complete team of OTHER talented players. It's few coaches who can actually do that successfully.

 

[TazManianDevil]

Come on guys this is useless. ....we all know how Steelers operate......no way they'll fire Tomlin. Ever.

 

[bmoritz]

I agree they won't fire him, I'm just trying to honestly answer the question of who I'd look at to replace him. Good point Vader, I'm sure there are assistants who are ready who I'm not really aware of.
Wig, I don't understand your point on Munchak of dismantling the good work on the line, he'd be the head coach.

 

[ark steel]

LOL at Harbaugh. Drafted Kap who got a huge contract. HC's do all of that right? Anyone think Kap is worth that contract?

Had a great team as long as Gore, Bowman, Willis and Iupati were up (Singletary players). Had three good years (isn't that when you are winning with the previous coach's players?). In his fourth year when you can expect to have his full stamp on the team and BAM! has an 8-8 season. Hmm. One of those stud LB's he drafted 'retired' after 1 year.

Such a **** guy, SF couldn't wait to get rid if his stupid ***. Apparently, a good college coach, but not so much on the NFL level.

 

[diver]

Not one person on here knew who the hell Tomlin was when he was with the Vikings. There are always DC, OC, positional coaches, college coaches ETC... that can be looked at as a HC. Staying with a coach because "who will you replace him with" is as stupid as firing a coach every year because there has to be someone better.

Yea, but like I have said alot, there is this automatic assumption around here that whoever is brought in will be better than Tomlin. It could be worse, maybe even a lot worse. In another thread, someone threw out Mike Shula or Kyle Shanahan. I don't know. I just don't see two guys who have been riding Daddy's coattails to get a hell of a lot of respect. Now in Pittsburgh it could be different with those guys, as the Steelers don't fire coaches. Therefore, it won't get you anywhere going above their head and crying.

Is that a reason to keep Tomlin? No. But it better be considered.

 

[Vader]

Yea, but like I have said alot, there is this automatic assumption around here that whoever is brought in will be better than Tomlin. It could be worse, maybe even a lot worse. In another thread, someone threw out Mike Shula or Kyle Shanahan. I don't know. I just don't see two guys who have been riding Daddy's coattails to get a hell of a lot of respect. Now in Pittsburgh it could be different with those guys, as the Steelers don't fire coaches. Therefore, it won't get you anywhere going above their head and crying.

Is that a reason to keep Tomlin? No. But it better be considered.

And there is the other automatic assumption that every coach Rooney would bring in would be worse. You say it's no reason to keep Tomlin but needs to be considered... considered as what? A reason? Any consideration is a "Reason". Don't try to separate them because you can't. It is either a consideration "reason" or it isn't.

The fact is many on here love Tomlin and are going to defend him no matter what. Which is why you get the "OH GOD the next coach may suck". Remember you can't run a football team by living in your fears. If you fear change then you'll die with the status quo.

 

[diver]

And there is the other automatic assumption that every coach Rooney would bring in would be worse. You say it's no reason to keep Tomlin but needs to be considered... considered as what? A reason? Any consideration is a "Reason". Don't try to separate them because you can't. It is either a consideration "reason" or it isn't.

The fact is many on here love Tomlin and are going to defend him no matter what. Which is why you get the "OH GOD the next coach may suck". Remember you can't run a football team by living in your fears. If you fear change then you'll die with the status quo.

As per your first paragraph, that is a lot of ****. Overwhelmingly, people think a new guy will be better. If anyone would make the argument that more people here are for Tomlin than against him they just cannot read. It just may be that the few pro-Tomlin guys are pretty vocal.

You are damn right it is a reason. I do not want worse. Tomlin leaves a bit to be desired, but of the new hires over the last few years, who has set the world on fire? Arians would be one, but he hasn't won **** yet. I don't know. I am just drawing a blank right now. I woulda thought some of those guys coming out of Seattle would be better, but blah.

Can we get Cowher back? Man, would I love to see that. I know that ship has sailed, but I can dream.

 

[Confluence]

As per your first paragraph, that is a lot of ****. Overwhelmingly, people think a new guy will be better. If anyone would make the argument that more people here are for Tomlin than against him they just cannot read. It just may be that the few pro-Tomlin guys are pretty vocal.

You are damn right it is a reason. I do not want worse. Tomlin leaves a bit to be desired, but of the new hires over the last few years, who has set the world on fire? Arians would be one, but he hasn't won **** yet. I don't know. I am just drawing a blank right now. I woulda thought some of those guys coming out of Seattle would be better, but blah.

Can we get Cowher back? Man, would I love to see that. I know that ship has sailed, but I can dream.

Sign him to the same contract length as Ben. Let him run D, and ensure that Haley/Munch run O.




Championship!

 

[GILBERT]

We will see what the cardinals do in the playoffs. You might just see some questionable (situational) play calling that we used to see about 5-7 years ago with steelers.

 

[Vader]

As per your first paragraph, that is a lot of ****. Overwhelmingly, people think a new guy will be better. If anyone would make the argument that more people here are for Tomlin than against him they just cannot read. It just may be that the few pro-Tomlin guys are pretty vocal.

You are damn right it is a reason. I do not want worse. Tomlin leaves a bit to be desired, but of the new hires over the last few years, who has set the world on fire? Arians would be one, but he hasn't won **** yet. I don't know. I am just drawing a blank right now. I woulda thought some of those guys coming out of Seattle would be better, but blah.

Can we get Cowher back? Man, would I love to see that. I know that ship has sailed, but I can dream.

You are so contradictory it's mind boggling. First you say it isn't a reason because you want to play coy. Then you finally admit it is a reason. I don't care that the past few coaches haven't set the world on fire. Has Tomlin set the world on fire? He won 1 SB with another coaches team and could miss the playoffs with a franchise QB 3 out of the last 4 seasons. This is his 9th season and almost every player on defense is worse than the guy before him. So I don't see the standard being that high. You really don't think you can find a coach to miss 3 out of 4 playoffs or make the defense a laughing stock?

BTW I guess you shouldn't draft QBs high either since most of them bomb. It's nothing more than defending Tomlin. That's it no more, no less.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Yeah, it's another coaches thread, but a little different, so I hope it's okay.

I see a lot of Tomlin "apologists" (for lack of a better term) asking who we'd rather have, which is a fair question. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few:

1. Staying in-house - Munchak. He has done an OUTSTANDING job with what was a below par line, and that's without the starting center. He has coaching experience, and has a Pittsburgh mentality.
2. I know I'll get blasted for this, and it probably won't happen as he loves where he is, but I'd throw the moon at Jim Harbaugh. Yes, he's a pain in the ***, but he's a helluva coach. He got a lot out of Colin Kapernick for crying out loud. He took a lowly 49ers team to the top, and look where they are without him. He'd probably love a chance to be in the same division as his brother, and ratchet the Steelers/Ravens rivalry through the roof.
3. David Shaw of Stanford - Excellent coach running a good pro style offense. I think he's ready for the jump up.
4. Part of me screams Urban Meyer - highly successful coach ready for the pros, but part of me hates how he handled the QB position.

I don't even sniff Chip Kelly. Hell, I'd rather keep Tomlin.

I haven't looked enough into the next crop of coaches as well as any of the under-the-radar names, but some thoughts on the guys you mentioned.

1. I really like Munchak. His demeanor is great, he has knowledge of the game, but I don't know that he is cut out to be a head coach. He did alright in Tennessee given the circumstances, but he isn't a guy that I feel can take a team to the next level. I think he is worth an interview, but wouldn't be my top choice for the Steelers.

2. If Jim Harbaugh could tone it down a tad, he is a terrific head coach. His personality may be a better fit for college, though.

3. David Shaw seems like a great fit on paper, but his offense isn't particularly imaginative. I do think he pays attention to detail, but can he adjust to the passing game of the NFL today?

4. Urban is so intriguing, but I'm not sure if his system would work in the NFL and how does he handle things if they start to go wrong? As interested as I am to see how'd he'd do in the NFL, I think he's better off staying in the college game.

 

[MTC]

David Shaw comes to mind. Football smarts and a no nonense attitude. Look at how Stanford conducts themselves. Respectable. I think Harbaugh will stay at Michigan. But on our part that is wishful thinking. Tomlin is not going anywhere

 

[Punxsutawney]

I wouldn't mind giving Munchack a shot. He did do a pretty good job with the Titans, given the lack of stability at the QB position, and that organization has taken a considerable step back in the two years he's been gone. Also, being a HOFer lends him instant respect/credibility from players.

Shaw would probably be my top choice. He's very bright from a schematic standpoint, runs a pro-style system and seems to have the type of personality that would translate to the pro game.

 

[diver]

You are so contradictory it's mind boggling. First you say it isn't a reason because you want to play coy. Then you finally admit it is a reason. I don't care that the past few coaches haven't set the world on fire. Has Tomlin set the world on fire? He won 1 SB with another coaches team and could miss the playoffs with a franchise QB 3 out of the last 4 seasons. This is his 9th season and almost every player on defense is worse than the guy before him. So I don't see the standard being that high. You really don't think you can find a coach to miss 3 out of 4 playoffs or make the defense a laughing stock?

BTW I guess you shouldn't draft QBs high either since most of them bomb. It's nothing more than defending Tomlin. That's it no more, no less.

The last thing I am is coy. I guess I was just trying to be civil. So for me, it is a pretty important reason that they could be worse. Those types of decisions are made everyday in various professions. Will we be worse off or better if we make a change.

You always have to resort to that stupid ******' argument about winning with someone else's players. He was the coach, not Cowher. If I am fishing and use someone else's fishing pole, I guess the fish I catch I should not get credit for. It is a childish argument. Knock it off.

Maybe the franchise QB should stop playing like **** in big spots and they make the playoffs and win a game or two there.

Why does Ben get a pass because hey, he has won a couple of SBs, but Tomlin gets none for his win? Talk about contradictory.

I have no desire to defend Tomlin unless it is against stupid arguments, like he didn't motivate his players or he doesn't speak into his headset or whatever. But there is a real mindset here that they could hire anybody and it would be better. That is just a fact.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Tomlin sucks.

 

[steelerscotty]

Not one person on here knew who the hell Tomlin was when he was with the Vikings. There are always DC, OC, positional coaches, college coaches ETC... that can be looked at as a HC. Staying with a coach because "who will you replace him with" is as stupid as firing a coach every year because there has to be someone better.

Outstanding! I nominate this for post of the year!

 

[slashsteel]

With Tomlin he really got the most out of the run D with the Vikings.

But I thought he was a bit of a unknown. Maybe even one sided as I think their pass D wasn't memorable.


I think you look at a NFL coordinator that is known for getting the most out of his defense or offense.

maybe''s?

Arizona's O coordinator
Denver's D coordinator
Kansas City's D Coordinator

and I could care less how old they are... Ben isn't going to be around for a long time, I am trying to squeeze out a SB win, no matter even if the coach is around too long....

 

[diver]

With Tomlin he really got the most out of the run D with the Vikings.

But I thought he was a bit of a unknown. Maybe even one sided as I think their pass D wasn't memorable.


I think you look at a NFL coordinator that is known for getting the most out of his defense or offense.

maybe''s?

Arizona's O coordinator
Denver's D coordinator
Kansas City's D Coordinator

and I could care less how old they are... Ben isn't going to be around for a long time, I am trying to squeeze out a SB win, no matter even if the coach is around too long....

See, if I am going to replace Tomlin, I think that is secondary to a coach who commands respect. Even if he doesn't have the best O or D, if the players respect him. I think that is more important in this day and age than ever. And it seems Tomlin has that, which is why I would be reluctant to pull the plug.

My question on that though is it Tomlin they respect or Cowher before him or do they realize that it is a fruitless endeavor to try to undermine the coach because the Rooney's do not play that game. If it is more about the Rooney's and the way they do business, then I am fine with replacing Tomlin, because I have to agree that outside of what I perceive as the players respect for him and that he doesn't lose a team, he is replaceable.

I hope that clarifies my position a little more.

 

[nooneuno]

Since being fired from the niners Mike Singletary has done nothing but study football waiting for his next opportunity as a head coach, just saying ...... lol he'd be an interesting hire.

 

[MTC]

See, if I am going to replace Tomlin, I think that is secondary to a coach who commands respect. Even if he doesn't have the best O or D, if the players respect him. I think that is more important in this day and age than ever. And it seems Tomlin has that, which is why I would be reluctant to pull the plug.

My question on that though is it Tomlin they respect or Cowher before him or do they realize that it is a fruitless endeavor to try to undermine the coach because the Rooney's do not play that game. If it is more about the Rooney's and the way they do business, then I am fine with replacing Tomlin, because I have to agree that outside of what I perceive as the players respect for him and that he doesn't lose a team, he is replaceable.

I hope that clarifies my position a little more.

The Rooneys will not part ways with Tomlin because the Steelers are a stable/consistent organization. I will say one thing I admire about the coaches(Noll, Cowher and yes Tomlin) is that their teams rarely have that locker room drama that teams like the Cowboys, 49ers etc have

 

[Stryker]

I wouldn't replace Coach for any other poster. He is fun and adds lots of treads. Some of them I enjoy reading!

Is that the type of 'Coach' thread we're talking about?

 

[Drink IRON City]

Dg

Sign him to the same contract length as Ben. Let him run D, and ensure that Haley/Munch run O.




Championship!

Be sure to broaden Cohwer's responsibility to include SPECIAL TEAMS !!!!!!!!!!!! INSTANT gratification





Salute the nation

 

[JMM]

Joey Porter