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Bye Haley, but how can MT say the defensive staff are all safe?

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AggieSteel

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That is completely unacceptable. Neither Lake nor Porter have developed a single player since they’ve been here. The only players who have improved on this defense over time are Heyward and Shazier, and one of them may never play again. Bad scheme, bad communication, bad mental errors by the players, everything about this defense is poorly coached.

Even if MT was completely hands off from the defense, the fact that he can recognize all these things and not make a single change signals to me that it is entirely his fault that this defense is bad. And it will be just as bad next year unless they find players to plug in who are so talented, they rise above the clusterfuck the coaches have in place.


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Tough to argue with that Aggiesteel. Firing 2 coordinators sounds very un-Rooney like, I'm not saying it's not deserved tho

The defense showed signs of improvement this year, but was terrible in the playoffs, knowing the Rooneys Butler gets another year.

Lake and Porter are former players, that shouldn't make a difference, but it probably will. I'd show those 2 the door too if it was me
 
Tomlin is delusional if he honestly thinks his defensive scheme is solid and all of the problems are execution. Tomlin inherited the #1 defense in the NFL and over the last 10 years it has slipped and regressed to the middle of the pack. The hybrid 4-2 defense that we play with 2 DL is horrific and there were numerous times that we run 2 DL on 3rd and short or on the goal line. Show me any team that goes 2 DL on the goal line. Defense is this teams biggest issue and it has been for quite a while. Still waiting for the defensive guru to do something about it.
 
With this board, is it ever on the damn players to show improvement and just play better? Heyward and Tuitt sucked on Sunday, Burns was OK but he got to stumbling around on that deep ball the announcers said Bortles put right there...if he's not bumbling around it may be picked or at least broken up,, Dupree may not be as bad as Jarvis Jones, but he is close, and he has the measurables, unlike Jones so don't go there. Its so damn childish to blame the coaches all the time. I guess if it comforts you, though.
 
I hate Haley but loathe Butler. He will be why the Steelers will fail again next year....fire him now Tomlin and get a whole new crew in here!


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diver said:
With this board, is it ever on the damn players to show improvement and just play better? Heyward and Tuitt sucked on Sunday, Burns was OK but he got to stumbling around on that deep ball the announcers said Bortles put right there...if he's not bumbling around it may be picked or at least broken up,, Dupree may not be as bad as Jarvis Jones, but he is close, and he has the measurables, unlike Jones so don't go there. Its so damn childish to blame the coaches all the time. I guess if it comforts you, though.
Click to expand...

I blame players when it’s clear which players are learning and improving and which players don’t learn or don’t improve

I blame coaches when trends hold throughout a season, or across multiple seasons. When many players make mistakes, when many players struggle to develop, etc. Is it still the players making the mistakes and not getting better? Yes of course. But when it’s many of them, over a long period of time, then you have to wonder if they are not being developed well or put in position to succeed.

At least for me, it’s not about a blind, angry “raaahhh the coaches”. I actually watch and try my best to give credit and blame where both are due


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diver said:
With this board, is it ever on the damn players to show improvement and just play better? Heyward and Tuitt sucked on Sunday, Burns was OK but he got to stumbling around on that deep ball the announcers said Bortles put right there...if he's not bumbling around it may be picked or at least broken up,, Dupree may not be as bad as Jarvis Jones, but he is close, and he has the measurables, unlike Jones so don't go there. Its so damn childish to blame the coaches all the time. I guess if it comforts you, though.
Click to expand...

When we run 2 DL on our goal line defense, is that on the players too? When we give a QB 8 seconds in the pocket because we are rushing 2DL and 2OLB that have no chance of getting pressure, is that on the players too? Tomlin took over the #1 defense in the NFL and over the last 5 years we have dropped to an average of 15. is that all on execution as well. If so, what the **** do we need coaches for?
 
diver said:
With this board, is it ever on the damn players to show improvement and just play better? Heyward and Tuitt sucked on Sunday, Burns was OK but he got to stumbling around on that deep ball the announcers said Bortles put right there...if he's not bumbling around it may be picked or at least broken up,, Dupree may not be as bad as Jarvis Jones, but he is close, and he has the measurables, unlike Jones so don't go there. Its so damn childish to blame the coaches all the time. I guess if it comforts you, though.
Click to expand...

We have the talent, that’s the problem. Especially on offense, we are by far the most talented offense team in the league and even the defense is at least in the middle of the pack. Good coaches get what they should out of their players. Great coaches get more than they should out of their players. I think it’s safe to say we get less from the talent we have.
 
Toddster ran a pretty good offense but he didn't play well with others....anywhere he's worked.
Disappointed with keeping the defensive staff, they should all be fired.
 
Artie Burns is a man corner, the more man he plays the better he is, the more zone he plays the more often he ***** up.

Watt is pretty damn good no matter what he does, and only a rookie.

Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave do well when going straight ahead, but the Jags kept making them have to go horizontal and they couldn't get off blocks or move their guy backwards. That's where a Hampton part 2 needs to come into the picture.
Shazier is a freak and we saw how much he was truly missed

Dupree, I had hope for him, but he's just ******, has only one pass rush move and can't set the edge.

Haden keeper

ILBs are not starters

Mitchell can take Dupree with him

Davis looks pretty good for the most part.

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I hope they don't think the defense had a great season because they set a sack record and led the league. That doesn't make a good defense.
Hell, I think we recorded most of them vs. the Browns. Something needed to change with the defense.
Now, it looks like nothing will change and they are going to just blame the ability of the players basically.
Unless they plan on signing defensive free agents, rookies aren't going to come in and make this defense a force and we all know the coaching isn't either.
 
diver said:
With this board, is it ever on the damn players to show improvement and just play better? .
Click to expand...

Ummmm NO! That is a completely foreign concept. You sound like you may think these guys are professional athletes or something. Have you gone mental?
 
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Tomlins footprint is all over the defense. That is why he can't fire Butler..
 
MT stated that he went for the onside because his D could not execute a stop. In other words there is no faith in the D and they suck. But yet all D coaches coming back. I will say this again, going on a decade now. Mike Tomlin is a fraud.

Enough already.
 
To be fair, Before Shazier went out our defense was not that bad. he was basically the big Ben on our defense. we just couldn't replace him.
 
coolshark said:
MT stated that he went for the onside because his D could not execute a stop. In other words there is no faith in the D and they suck. But yet all D coaches coming back. I will say this again, going on a decade now. Mike Tomlin is a fraud.

Enough already.
Click to expand...

Yep. The onside kick with 2 timouts and the 2 minute warning is the ultimate indictment of Tomlin (a defensive head coach) and Butler
 
If they keep the same D staff, their D philosophy still MUST change. Collapse the pocket and get rid of this gap bullshit that for years now, the guys always say we didn't communicate or we didn't stay in the proper gap or didn't stay in our gaps. That is a bunch of bullshit. We thought LeBeau's D was hard to learn, well, the last 2 to 3 years, this D, with the same scheme has not gotten any better. In fact, they are worse against the run and worse in red zone D.
 
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2018/01/report-former-steelers-rb-coach-kirby-wilson-candidate-replace-todd-haley/

Posted the above link in the other thread about this. Apparently Kirby Wilson (former Steelers RB coach) is a candidate for OC. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in some folks' kitchen if he got it. lmao
 
Our defense WAS looking better as the season went on until Shazier went down. At that point we had to change our philosophy because of an utter lack of depth behind him that could play the same type of game he did. I am not blaming it all on one person but it shifted everything we could do from a speed perspective as teams figured that out, we were sort of stuck. Butler was getting better at his calls up and to that point. Even against NE it looked better but the more tape teams had on us without Ryan the more they were able to gameplay against us effectively and I am not sure we could have made significant enough adjustments with the personnel left to use. For that reason I give Butler a partial and limited pass but a very short leash. We have to retool the ILB group and maybe Dupree but unlike some I still think he is far better than JJ and could still become what we want but we need a backup plan in case.


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Lake is worse than Porter but Tomlin loves the ones he can control. Butler must really have some secret info to not have been let go after what was called defense last week.
 
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