Anthony Chickillo. An emerging talent or just the hot camp story of the week?

[Ron Burgundy]

Chickillo is out playing him. So if Jones doesn't start, he needs to play special teams.

Makes sense to me and you but Jones was a high draft pick and Chickillo was not, therefore Jones will always be ahead of Chick on the depth chart. I mean, Uncle Jarvis started every game but one over Deebo last year but Deebo played a lot more total snaps. Tomlin plays politics with the depth chart more than any coach I've seen.

The only reason he hasn't already been kicked to the curb is because the team doesn't want egg on their face, and cutting him would be proof that they made a huge mistake with their first round draft pick.
That's it.
No other reason he is around.
But the Steelers are smarter than everyone when drafting; they couldn't have made a giant blunder with their decision to draft JJ.
And that is why he is still around.
I man, just look and listen. Tomlin tried to claim that JJ was having a "solid" season last year. Solid? 29 tackles and 2 sacks is solid?
Bottom line, they don't want to admit he was a bad draft pick, because they like to think of themselves as the smartest guys in the room.

Nailed it.
Practically a carbon copy of the Jason Worilds situation.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I just find it funny that the first play Chickillo makes in a game will be his first. But yet he is being a called a starter.. the Steelers are on record as saying they want to do away with the rotation and play Jones and Durpee the majority of the snaps this year. I mean I understand Jones hasn't been a superstar but the hate he gets is crazy. He has made plays for this team. Chick has made plays in practice ..even last preseason he didn't do anything spectacular. HoJo made more plays in games and we cut him. I love the progress he is making but until that progress carries over please miss me with that starter talk. I hope makes plays enough to make it a legit three man rotation between him and Jones and Durpee. Especially if he can be the top backup to them both. Giving us three young guys at the position.. I for one do not want to have to waste another pick at the OLB position..

 

[FordFairLane]

We cut the wrong Jones last year though. HoJo had consistently had stronger practices and preseason than JJ but the team wrongly picked uncle Jarvis. We could have used 5 sacks in very limited time last year.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Hojo problem was he could not cover. Teams can take advantage of that by their formation..

 

[Coach]

Hojo problem was he could not cover. Teams can take advantage of that by their formation..

And in our 4 man rush players seldom cover. Hojo > pass rusher than Jones and he has special teams ability.

 

[antdrewjosh]

And in our 4 man rush players seldom cover. Hojo > pass rusher than Jones and he has special teams ability.

Again if teams know you can't cover they will come out in formations that will make you cover. For instance if Hojo was a starter for this team. Teams would come out in formations that would keep us in base so that he would have to cover

 

[t-man]

Again if teams know you can't cover they will come out in formations that will make you cover. For instance if Hojo was a starter for this team. Teams would come out in formations that would keep us in base so that he would have to cover

It's hard to complete a pass if you're flat on your back. It's easy to say "well, they will make you cover" but I'm tired of this offense dictating the defense league bullshit. You bring the house, and yes, sometimes you give up a few big plays, but if the qb gets hit enough times, suddenly the "we'll make you cover" thing goes out the window. Look at how Brady folds when you start putting him on the turf, very few qb's can take the pounding and not end up with happy feet. I want that guy thinking every time he drops back "If I don't dump this off, I'm getting hit".

Joe

 

[antdrewjosh]

It's hard to complete a pass if you're flat on your back. It's easy to say "well, they will make you cover" but I'm tired of this offense dictating the defense league bullshit. You bring the house, and yes, sometimes you give up a few big plays, but if the qb gets hit enough times, suddenly the "we'll make you cover" thing goes out the window. Look at how Brady folds when you start putting him on the turf, very few qb's can take the pounding and not end up with happy feet. I want that guy thinking every time he drops back "If I don't dump this off, I'm getting hit".

Joe

I hear ya. But it's an offensive league and teams like the Patriots and Bengals and others will come out in that two tight end formation and force you to match up..if you go nickle they gash you in the run game. If you go base they force your Linebackers to cover. Definitely a chess game.

 

[SteelerAl]

I never saw anything out of HoJo that made me think he needed to be on our 53. Perhaps we just overloaded him with information in trying to make him into a 3-4 OLB who would do everything (drop in coverage, hold the edge in the run game and rush the passer on 3rd down). He thrived in Tampa when they probably just told him to put his hand in the dirt and get the QB.

 

[Coach]

I never saw anything out of HoJo that made me think he needed to be on our 53. Perhaps we just overloaded him with information in trying to make him into a 3-4 OLB who would do everything (drop in coverage, hold the edge in the run game and rush the passer on 3rd down). He thrived in Tampa when they probably just told him to put his hand in the dirt and get the QB.

And we could have used such value here, even if he was a rotated player in our 4 man rush on obvious passing downs. I'm not saying HoJo is going to be a star player, but he proved better some of the linebackers the Steelers kept.

 

[SteelerAl]

but he proved better some of the linebackers the Steelers kept.

He "proved better" only in Coach's world where stats tell the entire and complete story of a player's performance...no context needed, just go to NFL.com and you know how good a player is by seeing how many tackles he made!

 

[antdrewjosh]

He "proved better" only in Coach's world where stats tell the entire and complete story of a player's performance...no context needed, just go to NFL.com and you know how good a player is by seeing how many tackles he made!

Yep no need to watch the game..

 

[SteelerSask2]

Well and the real truth is that finding a bit of a diamond in the trash of another team is just a part of the nature of the game. Cockrell looks to be at least a stop gap starter on this defense. He was on a trash heap as I remember. Sometimes it's a numbers game. You simply can't keep them all. And unfortunately with a bust like Jarvis Jones you simply have to give them a longer opportunity than you would like because of the money and draft investment involved.

 

[ianv2012]

Hearing that we should have kept HoJo over JJ is beyond laughable. HoJo has no ability to hold down the edge and contain the run nor cover, both things JJ excels at even though he lacks in pass rush. JJ gets zero credit for his run defense and coverage ability, both of which are important in our D for a linebacker, and considering we were still near the top of the league in sacks does it really matter if they come from a plethora of players or does it absolutely have to be one or two players in the double digits for people to be happy with our pass rush. Idc how the sacks come but if we're top 5 in sacks I'm good.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I'm gonna be real honest. We all watch the games, and the terms good in pass coverage and hold the edge are real terms. I'm just not sure most are qualified to determine if one is actually proficient or not. Like it isn't as of I've seen Jarvis Jones handle Gronkowski or something. As far as setting the edge are most of us able to determine that from a side angle view and fairly limited knowledge of the defense. For all we know the inside linebackers might instinctively flow to his side to help. What I do know is fact. They have kept a 38 year old linebacker around to share the position with him. They clearly are not happy with his abilities.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I'm gonna be real honest. We all watch the games, and the terms good in pass coverage and hold the edge are real terms. I'm just not sure most are qualified to determine if one is actually proficient or not. Like it isn't as of I've seen Jarvis Jones handle Gronkowski or something. As far as setting the edge are most of us able to determine that from a side angle view and fairly limited knowledge of the defense. For all we know the inside linebackers might instinctively flow to his side to help. What I do know is fact. They have kept a 38 year old linebacker around to share the position with him. They clearly are not happy with his abilities.

You can definitely see someone set the edge while watching TV.. Jarvis is very sound against the run saying otherwise is just being a hater honestly. James Harrison being on the team has nothing to do with Jarvis other then when Jarvis got hurt the Steelers saw how much James had left. That's a testament to James and his work ethic. We are talking about James Harrison not some bum 38 year old. Like someone else said Jarvis is good in coverage and against the run. He needs to step up as a pass rusher but then again with Tuitt Heyward Dupree and now Hargrave we may not need him to be a double digit sack guy..

 

[SteelerSask2]

Ok Andrew let's really break down Jarvis Jones play:
He has minimal pass defenses and interceptions. Literally anyone at that level could occupy the hook curl zone and come up with similar numbers. Now it could be true that he "lock downs" his man or zone. But seriously there is absolutely no way you can see that from watching side angle football on a TV.
Tackling the ballcarrier: he is average at best and that is sooooo generous. Unlike not seeing him make many plays on the ball in pass coverage I cannot tell you the amount of times I've seen Jarvis Jones over peruse the play and look like he is in sand as the back or slot blows by him and he whiffs. That is fact.
Setting the edge: though I've coached a lot of youth football and know the game pretty well overall I usually have a hard time knowing who sets the edge well. I guess if he forces the cutback into the arms of the inside backer frequently, ok. I can accept that. However, I cannot say that he does though I can't say he does not.
Pass rush: You could see immediately from Dupree's play the difference. His tangibles set up his moves and he was beating people in a way that Jones just does not show. Almost all of Jones sacks have been of the coverage variety though he has managed some tomahawk chops at the qbs arm.
Finally, again what a team really thinks of a guys talent revolves around things like rotation and contracts. I've seen nothing from the Steelers to make me think they aren't dissapointed with Jarvis Jones at this point.

 

[tdub88]

While my 'judgement' on Uncle Jarvis is far less negative - I didn't like the pick when he was selected; but, he has become an intricate part of this team because of the QB pressures that he shows on the field.

Let's not forget that he started (very early) in Coach LeBeau's super hard defense [and he looked lost most of the time], he got hurt and hurt some more, but, he didn't look terrible last year in the new system.

Being that this is his contract year and he knows this system as much as the previous one - barring injury - let's see what his performance is like this year shall we???

And I think that Chick will be a great LOLB as well - let's see who finishes the race first...

Oh! You have to bring race into it! Get it? Finishes the race first? J/K bro.

This stuff is fun to watch.

 

[tdub88]

At Chick's size though, isn't he suited more at the strong side at 265 lbs? Wouldn't he be competing with Moats and Dupree for playing time on the Left side?

Blah, blah, blah, how big is his helmet size? That will determine everything. They can't have extra large heads on defense, ie Polomalu.......

 

[antdrewjosh]

Ok Andrew let's really break down Jarvis Jones play:
He has minimal pass defenses and interceptions. Literally anyone at that level could occupy the hook curl zone and come up with similar numbers. Now it could be true that he "lock downs" his man or zone. But seriously there is absolutely no way you can see that from watching side angle football on a TV.
Tackling the ballcarrier: he is average at best and that is sooooo generous. Unlike not seeing him make many plays on the ball in pass coverage I cannot tell you the amount of times I've seen Jarvis Jones over peruse the play and look like he is in sand as the back or slot blows by him and he whiffs. That is fact.
Setting the edge: though I've coached a lot of youth football and know the game pretty well overall I usually have a hard time knowing who sets the edge well. I guess if he forces the cutback into the arms of the inside backer frequently, ok. I can accept that. However, I cannot say that he does though I can't say he does not.
Pass rush: You could see immediately from Dupree's play the difference. His tangibles set up his moves and he was beating people in a way that Jones just does not show. Almost all of Jones sacks have been of the coverage variety though he has managed some tomahawk chops at the qbs arm.
Finally, again what a team really thinks of a guys talent revolves around things like rotation and contracts. I've seen nothing from the Steelers to make me think they aren't dissapointed with Jarvis Jones at this point.

The Steelers ask there OLB to drop into a certain zone. Jarvis does that.. He is able to get into his drops with the proper depth they want to take away certain passes..maybe you don't see certain passes thrown to his side because he has taken that look away from the QB. I really don't know what game you are watching because I don't see the over pursuing that you are referring too. As far as setting the edge he does this with regularity. If Jarvis wasn't a good run defender he would not play..it's the no 1 requirement on our defense. Not sacks. Stopping the run..so if he couldn't do that. He wouldn't play. Making tackles is not the end all be all of stopping the run..Alot of times forcing the play to your help is doing your job. Everyone wants to compare him to Harrison..while forgetting that James was a out of this world talent..he was able to set the edge and then stack and shed because of his out if this world strength. Jarvis is not James and there nothing to be ashamed of in that fact. James was different then every OLB we had even the other great ones.

And if you saw something from Dupree last year as a pass rusher other then a speed rush you are definitely watching a different game and you honestly have a bias against Jarvis..because none of Dupree's sack were worth anything..maybe one where he used his speed to beat a tackle. The others were where he came free based off the scheme. He did nothing after teams saw his only asset as a rusher was his speed rush. NOTHING as a rusher. He was consistently ran up the arc. He showed no moves. NONE. He was good in coverage also and good against the run too. But pass rushing no. Just because he had 4 sacks he wasn't consistently better. Jones got pressure and has more in his arsenal as a rusher he just has to get home. Jones also has made some big plays for the defense. The pick against the Colts was huge. If the Colts score there who knows how that games goes. And we needed that game. Also the forced fumble against the Bengals. We don't play Denver with out it.

As far as the rotation goes why not? It's James Harrison..

 

[ianv2012]

The Steelers ask there OLB to drop into a certain zone. Jarvis does that.. He is able to get into his drops with the proper depth they want to take away certain passes..maybe you don't see certain passes thrown to his side because he has taken that look away from the QB. I really don't know what game you are watching because I don't see the over pursuing that you are referring too. As far as setting the edge he does this with regularity. If Jarvis wasn't a good run defender he would not play..it's the no 1 requirement on our defense. Not sacks. Stopping the run..so if he couldn't do that. He wouldn't play. Making tackles is not the end all be all of stopping the run..Alot of times forcing the play to your help is doing your job. Everyone wants to compare him to Harrison..while forgetting that James was a out of this world talent..he was able to set the edge and then stack and shed because of his out if this world strength. Jarvis is not James and there nothing to be ashamed of in that fact. James was different then every OLB we had even the other great ones.

And if you saw something from Dupree last year as a pass rusher other then a speed rush you are definitely watching a different game and you honestly have a bias against Jarvis..because none of Dupree's sack were worth anything..maybe one where he used his speed to beat a tackle. The others were where he came free based off the scheme. He did nothing after teams saw his only asset as a rusher was his speed rush. NOTHING as a rusher. He was consistently ran up the arc. He showed no moves. NONE. He was good in coverage also and good against the run too. But pass rushing no. Just because he had 4 sacks he wasn't consistently better. Jones got pressure and has more in his arsenal as a rusher he just has to get home. Jones also has made some big plays for the defense. The pick against the Colts was huge. If the Colts score there who knows how that games goes. And we needed that game. Also the forced fumble against the Bengals. We don't play Denver with out it.

As far as the rotation goes why not? It's James Harrison..

Not to mention it seems like the one LT Jarvis dominates is Joe Thomas, which is baffling considering he is one of the best in the league, but he consistently beats Thomas when we play Cleveland and I've seen him straight walk JT into the pocket. Doesn't make sense but yeah he wouldn't play at all if he didn't excel in any area, and he's extremely disciplined against the run and does a great job flowing down the LOS to keep runs inside and he is really good at backside pursuit on runs that are away from him. Dupree got caught several times cheating to far inside against the run and allowed the RB to bounce outside and gain the edge. While yes we watch the game on TV at an angle, there is multiple angles on replays which they show almost every play now so you can discern how well someone did what they were supposed to. Also as Andrew said, Jarvis is constantly getting pressure but always seems to be just a second late, and he needs to finish those pressures, but the Steelers definitely trust his run D and coverage, while I'm sure they are disappointed about his pass rush lacking the 17th overall pick they invested, JJ has still earned a spot in the starting 11 for being more well rounded. One of the first things they look to teach young pass rushers when they get to Pit is sealing the edge on runs and dropping into coverage, and it's the reason Dupree was not going to start last year as he still learns how to improve in those areas including his pass rush skills. Inside linebackers can do far better at stopping the run when runs are kept inside.

 

[ianv2012]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks

Again I want to bring up we were third in the league with 48 sacks last year, only 3 sacks behind the "amazing" Denver pass rush which had 52. So do you have to have one or two guys with double digit sacks to be happy about our pass rush, or can a plethora of players getting sacks have the same effect of pressuring the passer?

All those who want to single out Jarvis, whom no one is defending as a good pass rusher (in fact I was disappointed when we drafted him, but root for him because he's a Steeler, but have no problem pointing out he wasn't worth the 17th overall pick) have to basically argue that the pass rush is only good if the OLBs are in double digits while ignoring the fact we were top 3 in sacks last year for team defense.

 

[Coach]

He "proved better" only in Coach's world where stats tell the entire and complete story of a player's performance...no context needed, just go to NFL.com and you know how good a player is by seeing how many tackles he made!

Yes, he proved better because he made plays in games. Ya know that has something to do with winning. Getting blocked and doing nothing does not help the defense. What context does Jones offer that others do not?

The sooner Jones is replaced by a better player, the better off the defense will be. That player could be Chickillo either this season or next.

 

[FordFairLane]

JJ does use his hands well and did ever since coming out of college. The problem is he doesn't have the speed or strength to turn that initial win into a sack or tfl. At this point JJ is what he is. Decent run defender but he's not going to give you much in terms of pressure. Either a missed assignment or coverage sack.

 

[Coach]

JJ does use his hands well and did ever since coming out of college. The problem is he doesn't have the speed or strength to turn that initial win into a sack or tfl. At this point JJ is what he is. Decent run defender but he's not going to give you much in terms of pressure. Either a missed assignment or coverage sack.

Ford,

A decent run defender to have the ability to disengage or run around would be blockers and make plays. Jones hardly does this, so how is he a decent run defender? He's not an NT trying to occupy blockers.

Those who think he's adding vs the run should watch the games. More often than not he's blocked.