Covid Vaccine

[Troglodyte]

Actually, the seat belt issue is widely known. There are several ways seatbelts can be death traps... if you are trapped upside down or with your weight fully on it in some other way, they may not release... also if it takes damage it can jam. Sometimes tgey fail to release just from the force of the impact jamming them... this is known... happens with enough frequency they make a tool for first responders.

A small percentage of people die from being trapped by seatbelts in a car that prevents them from escaping a dangerous situation like it being on fore or underwater... others arent able to get medical attention in time because of it.. and in cases where its not front to back impact, the belt can hurt more than help... getting tboned, for instance...

Famously Fox in the 90's had one of those caught on tape shows that had a guy who was in an accident and his belt jammed... the first responders on the scene couldnt get him out for several minutes... and you heard his screams as a fire slowly engulfed his car... iirc the fire department was able to get the fire extinguished but he was severely burned ...

The pro seat belt argument is that more lives are saved by them than hurt or lost because of them... but that is somewhat subjective... they count everyone wearing a seatbelt in an accident as a life saved... so its biased high for sure... still a good idea though...

The exception isn’t the rule. A seatbelt might prevent you from escaping a dangerous situation in a car, but I’d wager it’s far more likely to enable to escape that situation because your not unconscious from slamming your head into the windshield.

 

[oneforthebus]

except...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38221509/

or is the NIH now anti-vaxxer "slop"?

I’ve already acknowledged multiple times the vaccine caused rare cases of myocarditis. That hasn’t been kept secret by me, the government or big pharma. Yes, the anti-vaxxers like to mix occasional truths with all their lies for occasions such as this.

Myocarditis is an example of how VAERS works. It picks up safety signals. Adverse events are reported, and if the occurrence after vaccination is more frequent than would be expected in the general population, that's a signal. Events that happen at the same rate as they normally would, are not safety signals because they aren't indications that the vaccine is causing the problem. More study is needed of course, because they have to look at age, co-morbidities, other potential causes for the increase, and they do. After study a causal link in rare cases of myocarditis was confirmed. Not unusual for any medical treatment to have rare serious adverse events. It's good to know because if someone's looking out for myocarditis and is diagnosed it can usually be successfully treated.

 

[Superman]

Flu and other infectious diseases surged after the lockdowns due to immunity debt, people were not exposed and did not develop immunity...and I guess you missed the part where waves of excess deaths coincided with waves of new covid variants. I guess you also missed the part where studies show rates of deaths were lower in vaccinated people than unvaccinated ones. The Japanese study does not even look at association with covid vaccines or compare vaccinated to unvaccinated people in the excess deaths, but that doesn't stop anti-vaxxer misinformation sites from twisting it and using it to scare people.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2842305

you're not telling me anything new.

yes, there were deaths. but look at precisely what you said ...

people were not exposed and did not develop immunity

this is a by-product of the rush to vaccinate and essentially hide from a microscopic particle. or, as you said "a tiny amount" in reference to the vaccine that was not a vaccine. by not allowing people to congregate - be it in public settings, etc - herd immunity was curbed, just as was being discussed 700+ pages ago, but casually dismissed by the science deniers of Flog and Fibs.

 

[oneforthebus]

you're not telling me anything new.

yes, there were deaths. but look at precisely what you said ...

this is a by-product of the rush to vaccinate and essentially hide from a microscopic particle. or, as you said "a tiny amount" in reference to the vaccine that was not a vaccine. by not allowing people to congregate - be it in public settings, etc - herd immunity was curbed, just as was being discussed 700+ pages ago, but casually dismissed by the science deniers of Flog and Fibs.

Yes, but the problem was the coronavirus was a novel virus and no one knew at the time whether natural immunity would be conferred or how deadly the virus would be. Do I think the release of information as it was acquired was too slow? Absolutely. I just disagree with you on the motives.

My whole family got covid in December 2020 before there were vaccines. We were scared shitless, we are in our 50s and had no idea what would happen to us. My husband and son lost their sense of taste and smell, no one knew at the time if that would be permanent. I think a lot of people forget the uncertainty and fear. The idea that someone would just say "hey let's see if herd immunity works" early on, not knowing if it would kill hundreds of millions of people is a bit absurd.

 

[Superman]

Yes, but the problem was the coronavirus was a novel virus and no one knew at the time whether natural immunity would be conferred or how deadly the virus would be. Do I think the release of information as it was acquired was too slow? Absolutely. I just disagree with you on the motives.

My whole family got covid in December 2020 before there were vaccines. We were scared shitless, we are in our 50s and had no idea what would happen to us. My husband and son lost their sense of taste and smell, no one knew at the time if that would be permanent. I think a lot of people forget the uncertainty and fear. The idea that someone would just say "hey let's see if herd immunity works" early on, not knowing if it would kill hundreds of millions of people is a bit absurd.

firstly - i've only said that the "powers that be" most likely did not release ALL the information they had on the holy vaccine that Flog prays to, and the black plague virus that keeps Fibs under his bridge over the river Danube. All that is proving to be true, as more and more information about this is coming out.

the insane rush to get everyone vaxxinated - free donut, anyone? - was the peak of ridiculous. these shots were rushed to the market and even the name "Operation Warpspeed" signifies that. Yes, it was under Trump and yes, I voted for Trump, and yes, I'd vote for the mf again.

I truly believe the underlying intent to vaccinate the populace was good. I think somewhere along the lines it got turned into something it wasnt. It was not the holy shot that would prevent someone from getting sick, it did not slow the curve, it did not prevent transmission to others, it did not prevent you from getting it again and it most certainly did have side effects. The rush to market 100% had to cut corners. Had to. No other way around it.

Like you, I, too, was sick in Dec 2020. I remember being unable to sit up, my sinuses were clogged, my head constantly hurt, and my doctor said I had a "very, very bad sinus infection." In my 50 years, I'd never, not once, had a sinus infection in December. And this was back when the vid was un-named, but there were videos on LiveLeak where Chinese authorities were welding doors shut on families where someone had the virus.

Suddenly, we had a name for the Gynese Virus, and Nancy Pelosi was dancing in China Town saying things were safe.

but then the story changed and we're suddenly ALL on death's door and were taking Granny with us.

Oh, the VAERS report you recalled... dismissed immediately on this board for various reasons. Yet, now...

 

[oneforthebus]

firstly - i've only said that the "powers that be" most likely did not release ALL the information they had on the holy vaccine that Flog prays to, and the black plague virus that keeps Fibs under his bridge over the river Danube. All that is proving to be true, as more and more information about this is coming out.

the insane rush to get everyone vaxxinated - free donut, anyone? - was the peak of ridiculous. these shots were rushed to the market and even the name "Operation Warpspeed" signifies that. Yes, it was under Trump and yes, I voted for Trump, and yes, I'd vote for the mf again.

I truly believe the underlying intent to vaccinate the populace was good. I think somewhere along the lines it got turned into something it wasnt. It was not the holy shot that would prevent someone from getting sick, it did not slow the curve, it did not prevent transmission to others, it did not prevent you from getting it again and it most certainly did have side effects. The rush to market 100% had to cut corners. Had to. No other way around it.

Like you, I, too, was sick in Dec 2020. I remember being unable to sit up, my sinuses were clogged, my head constantly hurt, and my doctor said I had a "very, very bad sinus infection." In my 50 years, I'd never, not once, had a sinus infection in December. And this was back when the vid was un-named, but there were videos on LiveLeak where Chinese authorities were welding doors shut on families where someone had the virus.

Suddenly, we had a name for the Gynese Virus, and Nancy Pelosi was dancing in China Town saying things were safe.

but then the story changed and we're suddenly ALL on death's door and were taking Granny with us.

Oh, the VAERS report you recalled... dismissed immediately on this board for various reasons. Yet, now...

The VAERs report was never dismissed, it was simply not being interpreted the way it’s intended to be, as safety signals warranting further investigation, not as proof of mass death and serious injury caused by vaccines. If I eat a ham sandwich and get a blood clot the next day, it’s not proof that ham sandwiches cause blood clots. If 300 million people eat a ham sandwich some of them are going to get a blood clot the next day, or the next week, or the next month…still not proof that ham sandwiches cause blood clots. What you have to figure out is if the rate of blood clots is higher in people who ate ham sandwiches than it is in similar people who didn’t. This is nothing new, anti-vaxxers have used this same scare tactic for years. Some people do not seem to understand the statistical concept of correlation not equalling causation.

 

[IndySteel]

All the back and forth banter is nonsense. It was the flu, hyped up and turned into a panic by socialists to steal the 2020 election with fake mail-in ballots. It’s that simple.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Anti-vaxxer slop easily disprovable with a few google searches but imma let you all figure it out for yourselves. It's a waste of my time.

I take umbrage when the term anti-vaxxer is used in conjunction with those that find this particular vaccine, which isn't really a vaccine, less than optimal.

I took two jabs before the goalposts were continually moved on this product. It didn't harm me as far as I know but seriously doubt that it did me any good either.

I think most here, with a few exceptions, believe the majority of vaccines are a good idea when administered appropriately and aren't anti-vaccine, just not cheering on the subject of this particular thread.

 

[oneforthebus]

I take umbrage when the term anti-vaxxer is used in conjunction with those that find this particular vaccine, which isn't really a vaccine, less than optimal.

I took two jabs before the goalposts were continually moved on this product. It didn't harm me as far as I know but seriously doubt that it did me any good either.

I think most here, with a few exceptions, believe the majority of vaccines are a good idea when administered appropriately and aren't anti-vaccine, just not cheering on the subject of this particular thread.

There are some anti-vaccine and anti-medicine/pharma in general here. The anti-vax movement seized on the covid vax as proof of all the crap they've been spewing for years. They use much of the same playbook.

I can understand the hesitancy on the emergency use authorization, and with the value of hindsight it’s not a great vaccine (yes vaccine, it’s not the only vaccine that isn’t 100% effective against transmission but does reduce severity and death. The flu vaccine is the same, as is pertussis). Where I don’t agree is that it’s killing hundreds of thousands of people or that we were intentionally lied to about it. I never agreed with mandating, I said here very early on that would backfire and I was correct. We went from most people being anxious for a vaccine to a lot of people fearing it.

 

[madinsomniac]

The exception isn’t the rule. A seatbelt might prevent you from escaping a dangerous situation in a car, but I’d wager it’s far more likely to enable to escape that situation because your not unconscious from slamming your head into the windshield.

Thus my final statement. Its a good idea to wear them...

The political question is without 100% certainty that it will help and not hurt, does the government have the right to mandate it? Traditionally the accepted threshold for mandated government safety stuff is either if it either isnt a gray area that potentially help or hurt you, or it takes the safety of others into account.

So, for instance, drinking and driving... illegal for safety reasons, but can kill or hurt others other than onesself... base diving for fun off of a building... illegal for safety reasons, but there is no real gray area there... its one way dangerous... building codes protect others from unsafe practices... but the government doesnt mandate nutrition requirements for the general public, they can mandate what a company or restaurant sells, but not what people eat.. so they can tell the amish they cannot sell unpasteurized milk, but they cant tell an amish farmer he cant drink it..

The best example may be helmets on motorcycle riders.. a really good idea, no longer a law though, because the politicians feared it being challenged in the supreme court by a motivated minority of motorcycle riders and it getting tossed along with the more lucrative seatbelt law..

So to recap, wearing a seatbelt is smart, but it shouldnt be required... because there is a chance it can hurt, not help

The Covid vaccine should never have been mandated by anyone. We know from various countries hearings on it and the testimony given that they new before it ever was released that it had no impact on transmission. It was an imperfect vaccine... and we know the state's supreme court upheld right to mandate vaccines comes solely from the ability to prevent transmission, not potential medical benefits...

Imperfect vaccines should never be mandated, they are extremely dangerous for increased mutation reasons among more severe diseases. Its why certain ones, like the malaria one, arent offered unless the person is going into a high risk area...

Experimental drugs, like the MRNA stuff should be only made available to high risk demographics without major clinical trials...

 

[Superman]

There are some anti-vaccine and anti-medicine/pharma in general here. The anti-vax movement seized on the covid vax as proof of all the crap they've been spewing for years. They use much of the same playbook.

I can understand the hesitancy on the emergency use authorization, and with the value of hindsight it’s not a great vaccine (yes vaccine, it’s not the only vaccine that isn’t 100% effective against transmission but does reduce severity and death. The flu vaccine is the same, as is pertussis). Where I don’t agree is that it’s killing hundreds of thousands of people or that we were intentionally lied to about it. I never agreed with mandating, I said here very early on that would backfire and I was correct. We went from most people being anxious for a vaccine to a lot of people fearing it.

I agree with you about vaccines.

but this wasnt one of them. did it help some people? it may have. we also do not have proof that it did anything we were told. as Zona said, the goal posts were moved frequently and often, up to and including how we even define a vaccine now. is it possible that not ALL the data was released to the medical community? yes, very possible. is it likely? that is being proven more and more every day.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If it's taken someone 6 years to come to this conclusion, we need to put them in the same tard bucket.

I had the same exact thought. Sorry Boot.

 

[Troglodyte]

Thus my final statement. Its a good idea to wear them...

The political question is without 100% certainty that it will help and not hurt, does the government have the right to mandate it? Traditionally the accepted threshold for mandated government safety stuff is either if it either isnt a gray area that potentially help or hurt you, or it takes the safety of others into account.

So, for instance, drinking and driving... illegal for safety reasons, but can kill or hurt others other than onesself... base diving for fun off of a building... illegal for safety reasons, but there is no real gray area there... its one way dangerous... building codes protect others from unsafe practices... but the government doesnt mandate nutrition requirements for the general public, they can mandate what a company or restaurant sells, but not what people eat.. so they can tell the amish they cannot sell unpasteurized milk, but they cant tell an amish farmer he cant drink it..

The best example may be helmets on motorcycle riders.. a really good idea, no longer a law though, because the politicians feared it being challenged in the supreme court by a motivated minority of motorcycle riders and it getting tossed along with the more lucrative seatbelt law..

So to recap, wearing a seatbelt is smart, but it shouldnt be required... because there is a chance it can hurt, not help

You’re making the exception the rule.

The Covid vaccine should never have been mandated by anyone. We know from various countries hearings on it and the testimony given that they new before it ever was released that it had no impact on transmission.

No Google “Did the COVID vaccine reduce transmission?” and get back to me on this.

It was an imperfect vaccine... and we know the state's supreme court upheld right to mandate vaccines comes solely from the ability to prevent transmission, not potential medical benefits...
Imperfect vaccines should never be mandated,

Google “Is there a perfect vaccine?” and get back to me on this.

they are extremely dangerous for increased mutation reasons among more severe diseases. Its why certain ones, like the malaria one, arent offered unless the person is going into a high risk area...

Experimental drugs, like the MRNA stuff should be only made available to high risk demographics without major clinical trials...

They’re not experimental.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/decades-making-mrna-covid-19-vaccines

 

[fedderone]

You’re making the exception the rule.

No Google “Did the COVID vaccine reduce transmission?” and get back to me on this.

Google “Is there a perfect vaccine?” and get back to me on this.

They’re not experimental.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/decades-making-mrna-covid-19-vaccines

I did JUST this.
And once again, stealing from Tim, you really suck at this.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39283431/

Overall, there is no convincing evidence that the COVID-19 vaccination significantly reduces the risk to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.

Oh, and I can't wait to hear how you tell us all how the NCBI / NIH is unreliable because Trump is president.

 

[Superman]

I did JUST this.
And once again, stealing from Tim, you really suck at this.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39283431/

Overall, there is no convincing evidence that the COVID-19 vaccination significantly reduces the risk to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.

Oh, and I can't wait to hear how you tell us all how the NCBI / NIH is unreliable because Trump is president.

from Google:




While the vaccines were incredibly effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death, public health agencies noted that they did not completely eliminate the risk of transmission, which is why additional mitigation measures were often recommended during surges.