When to throw the red flag

[ark steel]

You can debate without the personal insults.

**** him. He is an idiot.

 

[ark steel]

You can debate without the personal insults.

He's not even here. He quit this discussion hours ago.

 

[topseed]

I associate Shula with Griese. Should I get throw the red flag?

You should probably not "get throw the red flag," because Griese was the winning quarterback in merely one quarter (82) of Shula's 328 victories.

 

[topseed]

I was responding to Steelers12. If you self identify as an idiot, and were offended, that is not my problem.

The only word I self-identify with is objectivity.

You've labeled me the "pivot boy" of the anti-Tomlin "circle jerk," and have quoted my Tomlin/Ben thread (after the Bengals game) verbatim several times, including in that very post, so you have clearly lumped me in with that group of "idiots."

So, yeah, it kind of is your problem.

 

[Stryker]

You can't stick to one point. I understand that. First you come up with this myth that both Gruden and Switzer both won in their first years so they don't compare to Tomlin. When that didn't work because it isn't true then you go to "Well Tomlin is like Seifert". After that has been shown to be another swing and a miss you just totally ignore it and go on to "Well Gruden was a ROLLER COASTER coach". What ever the **** that means. Just another diversion because you haven't said a single that that has been true. So please just stop.

Second. I never mentioned Tomlin's regular season because I don't give a ****. As a matter of fact I could probably find a statement from you calling the bungles Regular season champs or disparaging them for not winning in the playoffs. Nobody gives a damn about regular seasons finishes... My guess is you don't either. Just another lame, fruitless attempt to justify another iniquitous stance.

I think you're missing my point, and the point of all of my posts here. Tomlin wins, and I've been very succinct in defending that premise.

I think the league cares and judges coaches on their overall body of work, and wins is the benchmark to judge head coaches.

 

[Stryker]

Don't give me "IF this then this" excuses. IF Harrison doesn't make that 100 yard return then he is 0-2 in SBs. It goes both ways and proves nothing.

My point is it is difficult enough to make it to a Super bowl, and a lot of people here want to discredit Tomlin for achieving that. Twice. Since 2010 was Tomlin's 4th season.

 

[topseed]

Yeah, when i think of Shula, i dont think of Marino. I think of the QB that lead them to an undefeated season. I was around before the 80's though.

The fact is that Shula was very successful before marino with 2 different HoF QBs and anotherthat was, apparently good. I dont know that most people associate shula with marino. I guess it could be true. I also dont think Cope meant A great QB as in only one, but i will let cope clarify that.

You might want to remind yourself that Griese only started 6 out of Miami's 17 games in that undefeated season. Since you were around back then, and all.

And I'll quote Cope again, to clarify it for you:

"Also all great coaches are linked to a great QB. Every. Single. One. It's a unicorn to have a great coach linked to 2. Only Walsh with Montana and Young."

So, no, your bullshit about Griese and Unitas wouldn't seem to apply to his very clear statement there, would it?

 

[Stryker]

Shula was much much much better than Tomlin in his first 11 years. He coached in an era where every season was only 14 games and he had a won loss record of 117-32-5 with 2 Super Bowl wins, a perfect season and a season where he went 11-1-2 and did NOT make the playoffs. He also took over a bad Miami team that had never had a winning record and went 46-9-1 with them. He also never had a losing season and never had a .500 season of which Tomlin had 3. Tomlin is 116-60, 1 less win and 28 more losses than Shula so by trying to say he is second to him by only 1 win is a huge mischaracterization of their 1st 11 seasons.

That's a fair point about the number of wins and winning percentage.

It still doesn't change the fact that Tomlin is #2 behind Shula for that number of wins. That IS an accomplishment to be lauded.

 

[topseed]

You are so very clever!

From the sideline, it, probably, isn't as clear. Ive been on the sidelines during a football game. You cant see details from that far away. Connor wasn't begging Tomlin to challenge, so even he didnt know and he was right there with the best view. When players are sure they have it, they are begging the coach to challenge. Connor wasnt asking for it, Ben wasn't asking for it. Did they not see it?

It has been said in one thread that there is no one in the booth calling down challenges. Pretty sure i noted that as not making any sense. If true, whoever made that decision, it is a bad one. Might be Tomlin, might be someone else. If i were Tomlin, i would be at the FO every week asking why no one has been hired to do it.

Stevie Wonder could also tell that Jessie James catch last year was a catch. Yetz it wasnt. A few years ago it was obvious 5hat Ray Rice could not have possibly stretched for a 1st down, yet, it he did.. What Stevie wonder can see vs what NFL refs can see don't always line up.

How the hell would you know if Conner or Ben asked Tomlin to challenge it?

Yeah, maybe Tomlin should never challenge a fairly obvious (good enough for you?) call ever again. 'Cause, you know, the replay refs have ****** one or two of those up over the years. He should stick to the ones that have almost zero chance of being overturned, like the Switzer play.

 

[ark steel]

How the hell would you know if Conner or Ben asked Tomlin to challenge it?

Yeah, maybe Tomlin should never challenge a fairly obvious (good enough for you?) call ever again. 'Cause, you know, the replay refs have ****** one or two of those up over the years. He should stick to the ones that have almost zero chance of being overturned, like the Switzer play.

He should have people in the booth whose job it is to give him advice on when to challenge. I dont know why he doesn't or why they haven't been fired. I can't think of one good reason not to have someone whose job is 90% sitting there looking for this ****. That person's experience only needs to be as high as knowing basic football rules and how to watch/rewind a video


I see players looking towards the sidelines quite a bit yelling at the coaches to throw the flag when they think they made the play (usually a catch/non-catch). I saw none of that. I might excuse Connor from that because of his inexperience, he might not be comfortable doing so. Ben wouldn't hesitate, IMO, If he thought it was that obvious from on the field.

I thought it was obvious, too (just as obvious that the midget didnt make the 1st). Doesn't mean i was very confident it would be ruled a TD.

 

[ark steel]

You might want to remind yourself that Griese only started 6 out of Miami's 17 games in that undefeated season. Since you were around back then, and all.

And I'll quote Cope again, to clarify it for you:

"Also all great coaches are linked to a great QB. Every. Single. One. It's a unicorn to have a great coach linked to 2. Only Walsh with Montana and Young."

So, no, your bullshit about Griese and Unitas wouldn't seem to apply to his very clear statement there, would it?

I was watching back then, but "around" is a bit of a stretch. I was 8 years old.

 

[ark steel]

The qb who replaced griese that year was Morrell, who was with shula in Baltimore and won a championship there. Not a HoFer, but not your typical back up, either.

 

[ark steel]

The qb who replaced griese that year was Morrell, who was with shula in Baltimore and won a championship there. Not a HoFer, but not your typical back up, either.

Should be Morral, not Morrel.

Shula's qbs and their winning %. Unitas, 65%, Griese 61%, Marino 60%, Morral 63% (played in a bunch of different places. Best records under Shula)

Did they win because Shula was a great coach or did he win because they were good qbs. Morral seems to have waaay better winning % with shula than without. That indicates better coaching/better supporting players.

 

[Vader]

I think you're missing my point, and the point of all of my posts here. Tomlin wins, and I've been very succinct in defending that premise.

I think the league cares and judges coaches on their overall body of work, and wins is the benchmark to judge head coaches.

No, you're trying to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. You're the one of that came up with all those things that just weren't true not me. I know exactly what your point is and I disagree with it. Tomlin is Switzer with a better more stable organization around him.

 

[slashsteel]

No, you're trying to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. You're the one of that came up with all those things that just weren't true not me. I know exactly what your point is and I disagree with it. Tomlin is Switzer with a better more stable organization around him.

Switz was a little more short term as his last year he went from 1st to 4th. Tomlin has never had that nose dive.

I prefer a longer term coach, perhaps Marty Schottenheimer.

He seemed to always fizzle out in the postseason.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

You can debate without the personal insults.

 

[slashsteel]

Charlie, serious.

hi

 

[Coach]

That's a fair point about the number of wins and winning percentage.

It still doesn't change the fact that Tomlin is #2 behind Shula for that number of wins. That IS an accomplishment to be lauded.

Shula had different Qb’s in different eras.

Ben has all those wins. He’s the rising tide that lifts all boats.


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[Steelers12]

Another ****** unprepared start

 

[Stryker]

No, you're trying to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. You're the one of that came up with all those things that just weren't true not me. I know exactly what your point is and I disagree with it. Tomlin is Switzer with a better more stable organization around him.

Then clearly paint how Switzer is Tomlin, because he is anything but.

 

[ark steel]

Another ****** unprepared start

Yep, that int that Tomlin threw really put us in a bind.

OL started out playing like crap. Lets put Munchak in charge. He, probably, told them to sit around and do nothing during the bye. Right?

 

[Steelers12]

Yep even the announcers said how lazy and unprepared the Steelers were and that they still looked like they in their bye. No first downs in the 1st quarter , letting a bad Browns team dominate the ball and the score in the 1st quarter is all on Tomlin's piss poor coaching once again. Yippeee we beat a bad Browns team and a rookie QB with no weapons, Suoper Bowl or bust with the moron at the j=helm.

 

[ark steel]

Yep even the announcers said how lazy and unprepared the Steelers were and that they still looked like they in their bye. No first downs in the 1st quarter , letting a bad Browns team dominate the ball and the score in the 1st quarter is all on Tomlin's piss poor coaching once again. Yippeee we beat a bad Browns team and a rookie QB with no weapons, Suoper Bowl or bust with the moron at the j=helm.

You sure are verbose for a guy who was quitting the conversation.

People here want Munchak to take over as HC, but it was his guys on O who were the most lackluster. Tomlin, probably, told them to not listen to what Munchak had been telling them and to have some cheetos and pizza.

Honestly, if i was Tomlin, i wouldn't have told Ben to throw the ****** pass that ended up an int and fuel that massive 6 point 1st quarter, but that is why im not paid the big bucks.

 

[Confluence]

Maybe next week we can have a thread Left vs Right: My Favorite Side of My Scrotum!
That is something we can all agree on, right?

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[ark steel]

Maybe next week we can have a thread Left vs Right: My Favorite Side of My Scrotum!
That is something we can all agree on, right?

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

I favor the right. My right scrotum, not yours.