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What is Tomlin's record vs. 25% winning record teams or lower?

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FYI

While our great leader of men is 29-8 (.784 win percentage) when heavy favorites (7.5 points or more), Bill Belichick and the Patriots are 48-5 (.906 win percentage) since 2009.

Took me a while to put that together. But don't worry. They aren't good. They just cheat.

It comes from the top. Take care of business. Don't let your guard down. Prepare like always. The great teams and coaches do it. Bad teams and coaches don't.

Good data. Noll was 50-1 vs .500 and below teams during a six year period.

Tomlin has to the worst active winning coach in terms of blowing games to .500 and below teams in seasons where his team is .500 or better.
 
FYI

While our great leader of men is 29-8 (.784 win percentage) when heavy favorites (7.5 points or more), Bill Belichick and the Patriots are 48-5 (.906 win percentage) since 2009.

Took me a while to put that together. But don't worry. They aren't good. They just cheat.

It comes from the top. Take care of business. Don't let your guard down. Prepare like always. The great teams and coaches do it. Bad teams and coaches don't.

Again, are you saying, despite all of the evidence that they don't cheat?

To me they are not evidence of anything other than "what you can get away with".
 
Again, are you saying, despite all of the evidence that they don't cheat?

To me they are not evidence of anything other than "what you can get away with".

The Patriots have taken cheating to a new level, but Tomlin has had some questionable moments. He did step on the field, which likely saved a return touchdown.
 
The Patriots have taken cheating to a new level, but Tomlin has had some questionable moments. He did step on the field, which likely saved a return touchdown.
Yep because that's the same thing as taping opponents walk through, and some how knowing what play or blitz is coming before the play is even run.
The fact the NFL immediately destroyed all evidence should tell everyone it was pretty damning evidence and the NFL didn't want any part of that **** storm.
 
It is unfair to criticize Mike Tomlin for his recent record against losing teams

The Steelers are 19-22 against mediocre-to-bad football teams since 2012, and head coach Mike Tomlin has been criticized for it. This is a bit unfair. In actuality, what Tomlin has done over the past 71 games is a testament to his coaching greatness.
by Anthony Defeo@Defeoman Oct 27, 2016, 6:00a


Steve Mitchell-USA TODAY Sports
As you know, Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin is not the most popular man in town right now, and that won’t change anytime soon, what with his team heading into its bye week on a two-game losing streak.

Colin Cowherd, who has a show on Fox Sports Radio, piled on this week by pointing out Tomlin’s coaching history since 2012, which includes an overall record of 41-30 and a 19-22 mark against teams with losing records.

Cowherd said that Pittsburgh’s sub-.500 performance against bad football teams isn’t so much about talent but about the emotional inconsistency of Tomlin’s players.

In other words, Cowherd blames coaching and not talent.


Judging by many of the comments in the article Jeff Hartman posted on Wednesday, it’s clear that you might agree with Cowherd’s sentiments.

If that’s the case, I think you and Colin Cowherd are being unfair.

Why do I say that? For starters, the Steelers weren’t really a good football team themselves in 2012, and they certainly weren’t anywhere near good in 2013.


In-fact, you can make a very strong case that Pittsburgh started to decline during its 12-4 season in 2011. The Steelers got their butts whooped pretty good by Baltimore in Week 1 (35-7), and after the game, Warren Sapp boldly stated that Dick LeBeau’s defense was “old, slow, and it’s over.”

People bristled at that, but when you re-examine things, Sapp was mostly right. It didn’t seem so at the time, especially since Pittsburgh won 12 games and the defense finished first in yards, but go back and look at that schedule. You talk about dogs—2011 was filled with them.

The 2011 Pittsburgh Steelers were a team comprised mostly of old Super Bowl heroes who were in their last days with the organization. This was particularly the case for a defense that saw a sharp decline in sacks (35) and takeaways (15) from the previous season.

The trend never corrected itself in subsequent years, because the younger players were either inexperienced or far less talented than those old heroes they replaced, and the veterans who stuck around (Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, etc.) were shells of their former selves.

And that was just the defense.

There may not be enough time in the day to talk about the massive change in philosophy on offense, after Bruce Arians was fired following the 2011 season and replaced by Todd Haley.

The thing about a decline in talent is, you don’t really notice it right away. Eleven games into the season, the 1998 Steelers were 7-4 and looking very much like Bill Cowher’s seventh-straight playoff team. But there was something off about those ‘98 Steelers, and five-straight losses later—including debacles against the pitiful Lions and even sorrier Bengals—they were 7-9 and watching the postseason at home for the first time since 1991.

The 1999 team was even worse (6-10), and though the 2000 edition got it together after an 0-3 start to finish at 9-7, it wasn’t enough to avoid missing the playoffs for a third-straight season.

2012 was a lot like 1998 around here. There was just something off about the Steelers through nine games, this despite their 6-3 start. Ben Roethlisberger was doing okay in Haley’s new system, but Antonio Brown wasn’t quite Antonio Brown just yet, Mike Wallace was a lame-duck receiver and Isaac Redman and Jonathan Dwyer were the primary running backs. Following an injury to Roethlisberger during an overtime victory over the Chiefs at Heinz Field, the wheels essentially fell off the wagon, and Pittsburgh dropped five of its final seven games—including three in a row after Roethlisberger returned to action—to finish 8-8 and out of the postseason.

The 2013 Steelers were bad on paper, and bad on the football field, as they got off to starts of 0-4 and 2-6. Some of those losses were to teams with losing records—Titans, Vikings, etc.—but the Steelers weren’t playing down to the level of the competition in those games; they were playing at their level of competition.

The fact that Pittsburgh recovered from such a disastrous first half of the season—in-addition to the overall lack of talent and 2-6 record, Maurkice Pouncey, Larry Foote and LaRod Stephens-Howling were all lost for the year in Week 1—to finish at 8-8 and a field goal miss away from making the playoffs was, in my opinion, a testament to Tomlin’s coaching greatness.

The thing about an increase in talent is, you don’t always notice it right away. The 2014 Steelers stumbled a bit out of the gate and were 3-3 after a couple of bad losses to the awful Buccaneers and the annually awful Browns, but there was just something about Haley’s offense. The talent was evident the year before, after Le’Veon Bell came on the scene at running back in Week 4 and Kelvin Beachum replaced Mike Adams at left tackle.

After rookie receiver Martavis Bryant made his debut against the Texans in Week 7, it was on. Suddenly, the Steelers had a juggernaut of an offense that included the most productive receiver in the NFL, an All-Pro running back and a talented offensive line that afforded its franchise quarterback the best protection of his career (just 33 sacks in 608 passing attempts), as Roethlisberger threw 32 touchdowns to just nine interceptions, while leading the NFL with 4,952 passing yards.

After starting out 3-3, Pittsburgh won eight of its final 10 games to finish 11-5 and clinched its first AFC North title in four years. Unfortunately, Bell suffered a hyper-extended knee in Week 17, an injury that pretty much put an end to the Steelers’ postseason before it really began.

Loss of man hours became a theme for the 2015 Steelers, as Roethlisberger, Bell, Bryant, Beachum, Pouncey and Shaun Suisham all missed significant time (or the entire season) due to injuries or suspensions.

Still, the Steelers fought through this adversity to finish at 10-6 and grabbed the final wild card spot. Sadly, despite an emotional victory over the Bengals in the wild card round, Pittsburgh left Paul Brown Stadium severely compromised for the divisional match-up against the Broncos due to a concussion sustained by Brown after a dirty hit courtesy of linebacker Vontaze Burfict (you know, during the game in-which Cowherd claimed Tomlin’s men were out of control?) and a shoulder injury to Roethlisberger.

This season, suspensions are again a theme (Bell and Bryant, once more), as are injuries (Ryan Shazier, Cam Heyward, Marcus Gilbert and, of course, Roethlisberger), yet, the Steelers are sitting at 4-3 and in first place in the AFC North.

The 34-3 debacle in Philadelphia was unfortunate, but guess what? The Eagles are a good football team. The 30-15 loss to the Dolphins was less excusable, but Pittsburgh went into that game without its two best defensive players and maybe its most consistent offensive lineman in Gilbert (and let’s not forget about the meniscus tear sustained by Roethlisberger during the game).

What am I saying in all of this? The Steelers have been an inconsistent football team over the past four-plus seasons because of talent, not coaching.

For as good and talented as the offense has become in recent years, its key players just can’t stay healthy (or free of suspension). As for the defense (wrote over 1,100 words and haven’t mentioned the transition from LeBeau to Keith Butler), it’s got issues that the coaches have been trying to correct on the fly in recent years, with both young talent and new philosophies (it would help if Shazier and Heyward could stay on the field together as much as possible), and it hasn’t always been pretty.

Starting in 2012, the Steelers went from a Super Bowl juggernaut, to a team in transition, back to a Super Bowl contender. Yet they remained in playoff contention the entire time (even during the transition years) and never finished with a losing record.

What Tomlin has done over the past four-plus years with keeping his team “buttoned-up” and in contention during a major roster (and coordinator) overhaul is kind of remarkable, but not too many people seem to realize it.

If Colin Cowherd wants to criticize Tomlin for his performance since 2012 based on stats alone, he can do that. However, if he would examine things a little closer, he may have a different opinion of the head coach’s abilities.

I won’t hold my breath on that last one.

I won’t be giving Mike Tomlin a pass, either, and that’s because great head coaches like him don’t need one
 
I think "greatness" is stretching it, but, IMO, having to rebuild a team and not have a losing season leads me to above average. Not a lot of coaches do that, I don't think.
 
I think "greatness" is stretching it, but, IMO, having to rebuild a team and not have a losing season leads me to above average. Not a lot of coaches do that, I don't think.

Not a lot of coaches have his 10 year record either but a lot of his critics tend to either overlook it or try to explain it away.
 
I don't want tomlin to go anywhere, he is a good coach, but as for rebuilding the team. Is there a unit on this team that is better now than it was when he took over?
Qb-same
Bell is better than Parker, if he can stay healthy and off the weed.
Wr's- no
Te's-no
OL-i give an edge to the current team, if Decastro would quit sucking it would be a wider margin.
Non of the defensive units are better yet.
 
I don't want tomlin to go anywhere, he is a good coach, but as for rebuilding the team. Is there a unit on this team that is better now than it was when he took over?
Qb-same
Bell is better than Parker, if he can stay healthy and off the weed.
Wr's- no
Te's-no
OL-i give an edge to the current team, if Decastro would quit sucking it would be a wider margin.
Non of the defensive units are better yet.

But he hasn't had that 5-11 6-10 season that's gets you those higher picks either. People gloss over the fact that yes you are picking higher in the first round but also in later rounds also. But of course if he went 5-11 6-10 back to back the pitch forks would be out. **** they were out after 8-8 back to back
 
Just out of curiosity, what is Ben's passing #s against these teams? This team lives or dies with Ben's performance. People want to say we play down to opponents well.. you may want to start there.
 
Just out of curiosity, what is Ben's passing #s against these teams? This team lives or dies with Ben's performance. People want to say we play down to opponents well.. you may want to start there.

Roethlisberger’s totals on the road have him at 18 touchdown passes and 18 interceptions since the start of the 2014 season. At home it’s 51-13. Not that we’re counting.

Mike Tomlin takes a lot of heat for his team’s record against “bad” teams on the road – it’s not 5-11 vs. sub.-500 teams in the past 16 games – but it’s as much Roethlisberger not playing well on the road as anything.



I've posted this numerous times and it gets ignored
 
Not a lot of coaches have his 10 year record either but a lot of his critics tend to either overlook it or try to explain it away.

We are in danger of falling off the precipice of re-engaging in the "But he won with Cowher players" discussion. Look, I see it this way: Can MT coach a team when they are already pissed and motivated? He can do an OK job. Is he much better if he has veteran leaders to handle the area of team focus and motivation? Most def. Is he weak in the area of having the team focused when they are playing a supposed weak team? I think the evidence is indisputable. And that was the original thrust of this thread to begin with. The best coaches rarely fail at having the team focused and prepared when facing bad teams. MT fails at it more than any supposed "good" coach I can think of. Hoodie rarely falls down in this area. Cowher usually did not. Parcells and Jimmy Johnson did not.
 
But he hasn't had that 5-11 6-10 season that's gets you those higher picks either. People gloss over the fact that yes you are picking higher in the first round but also in later rounds also. But of course if he went 5-11 6-10 back to back the pitch forks would be out. **** they were out after 8-8 back to back

Cowher didn't get much return after those poor seasons. We drafted Edwards after 1998, when Cowher wanted Kearse, then Burress after the 1999 season.
Hampton we drafted after a winning season, Smith, Porter, ward were 3rd round picks, Troy was drafted after a winning season, Farrior, Hartings, Kimo were FA guys, Faneca drafted after a winning season, Ike 4th round, Ben after a losing season, Heath after a winning season, Holmes after a winning season.
 
Cowher isn't coming back, and his team's didn't lay eggs as much as Tomlin's teams have vs ****** teams, with a franchise qb.
This isn't all on Tomlin the players sucked too, but Tomlin has been here through all these losses and he is the coach, it's his job to have the team focused and have a good game plan. In a lot of these ****** losses we have a ****** game plan and our defense looked like the same one from Philly, give the qb all day and give huge cushions to the WR's.

The injuries aren't helping either
Nor are the missed FG's...
 
Cowher didn't get much return after those poor seasons. We drafted Edwards after 1998, when Cowher wanted Kearse, then Burress after the 1999 season.
Hampton we drafted after a winning season, Smith, Porter, ward were 3rd round picks, Troy was drafted after a winning season, Farrior, Hartings, Kimo were FA guys, Faneca drafted after a winning season, Ike 4th round, Ben after a losing season, Heath after a winning season, Holmes after a winning season.

You are missing the point.. that's what I meant by high picks in the other rounds too not just the first. But still picking that high would get Tomlin fired or wanted to be fired by the fans. The Rooney's may stay patient like they did with Cowher who knows.
 
Just out of curiosity, what is Ben's passing #s against these teams? This team lives or dies with Ben's performance. People want to say we play down to opponents well.. you may want to start there.

And just imagine if Ben had a head coach who kept him focused and prepared for those games, instead of letting him get too loosey goosey? I will never forget the films of Tuna chewing out Simms on the sidelines. Now Simms says Tuna was 100% right in doing it, and that he needed coached up in order for him to be as good as he could be. You rarely see Tomlin say jack **** to Ben when he Fs up. I even see Hoodie have some words with the great Tom Brady from time to time. But our dude rocks those cool shades.
 
Maybe if he was consistently picking that high, yeah maybe, but he nor cowher, were consistently picking high.

Ward was the last pick of the 3rd round, Smith was actually a 4th rounder, Porter, was picked mid way through the 3rd
 
Roethlisberger’s totals on the road have him at 18 touchdown passes and 18 interceptions since the start of the 2014 season. At home it’s 51-13. Not that we’re counting.

Mike Tomlin takes a lot of heat for his team’s record against “bad” teams on the road – it’s not 5-11 vs. sub.-500 teams in the past 16 games – but it’s as much Roethlisberger not playing well on the road as anything.



I've posted this numerous times and it gets ignored

If only we had a coach who kept his QB focused for those road games vs. bad teams, that would be greeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttt.

 
If only we had a coach who kept his QB focused for those road games vs. bad teams, that would be greeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttt.



I really don't think the Rooney's paid him as a franchise QB for the Coach to have to keep him focused for road games
 
A decent amount of these losses the Oline played like **** as well, I remember Brown being benched in one of them for running wrong routes, so it's not like just Ben is ******.
 
I really don't think the Rooney's paid him as a franchise QB for the Coach to have to keep him focused for road games

To me I usually will point blame to the players. They are the ones not executing. I will say this though. I would love Tomlin to do some bitching and yelling at his players. Hey maybe he does it in practice or behind a closed door. I don't know. I just think this team lacks something. I read an article about the Bus a month ago or so. One point he made that sticks to me. During the run to the SB(Ben's 2nd year)he stated that he was on more talented Steelers teams, but the one that won the SB played for each other. They were a TEAM first. What makes players buy into that? Is it the players? Coaches? Both? What ever it is I think this team lacks some of it. I would love to see Ben get another ring or two but I am starting to think that it just might not happen. I do hope he(they) proves me wrong. For that to happen though I think that this team will have to start play for each other. Put TEAM before themselves.
 
To me I usually will point blame to the players. They are the ones not executing. I will say this though. I would love Tomlin to do some bitching and yelling at his players. Hey maybe he does it in practice or behind a closed door. I don't know. I just think this team lacks something. I read an article about the Bus a month ago or so. One point he made that sticks to me. During the run to the SB(Ben's 2nd year)he stated that he was on more talented Steelers teams, but the one that won the SB played for each other. They were a TEAM first. What makes players buy into that? Is it the players? Coaches? Both? What ever it is I think this team lacks some of it. I would love to see Ben get another ring or two but I am starting to think that it just might not happen. I do hope he(they) proves me wrong. For that to happen though I think that this team will have to start play for each other. Put TEAM before themselves.

He pulled the defense together to the side in Miami and dug in they ***. Some posters here clowned him for it
 
Maybe if he was consistently picking that high, yeah maybe, but he nor cowher, were consistently picking high.

Ward was the last pick of the 3rd round, Smith was actually a 4th rounder, Porter, was picked mid way through the 3rd

You are still missing the point yes the Steelers took Troy Edwards with the 13 pick in round 1 but they also picked 13 or so in the second and so forth. That helps.
 
Ben Roethlisberger came to Mike Tomlin's defense this week, as Pittsburgh's coach has come under some media scrutiny after consecutive losses to the Dolphins and Patriots.

Speaking on 93.7 "The Fan" in Pittsburgh on Tuesday, Big Ben stood up for his coach, shortly after the team's 27-16 loss to New England that dropped the Steelers to 4-3 heading into their bye week. Specifically, Roethlisberger defended Tomlin's 5-11 record in their past 16 game against losing teams on the road.

“I think maybe people play up to us,” Ben said while saying that he doesn't think that the team plays down to it's competition. “I don’t know. I know that there is a bad record there. I can’t say it’s his [Mike Tomlin’s] record, because I’ve probably played in a lot of those games. Our record is not good and it’s frustrating. I don’t know if there is any particular reason, if there was, I think we would get it fixed. We need to play as well as we can no matter who we’re playing.


"It's not like we say, 'Ok this is their record, this one's a win, let's move on.' We don't do that. So I don't think there's any less preparation. We don't cut meetings short. Everything is the same."

The Steelers are in first place in the AFC North heading into their bye week! Take a second to sign up for our FREE Steelers newsletter!

Ben's comments came shortly after several members of the media, including Colin Cowherd of Fox Sports, ripped Tomlin for his lack of success against losing teams.

"I look at Pittsburgh, they're bad against bad teams," Cowherd said. "They go in cocky or unprepared. They get players regulary suspended, they're overly reliant on Big Ben. I don't think they're a well coached team week to week. They are not buttoned up. That is coaching, that is not talent."
 
Speaking on 93.7 "The Fan" in Pittsburgh on Tuesday, Big Ben stood up for his coach, shortly after the team's 27-16 loss to New England that dropped the Steelers to 4-3 heading into their bye week. Specifically, Roethlisberger defended Tomlin's 5-11 record in their past 16 game against losing teams on the road.

On a related note, Joe Starkey's column in the P-G today notes that since their last lowB repuS appearance in 2010 the Steelers have been a rather mediocre team, yet act like they're the ****.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...d-use-a-slice-of-reality/stories/201610270026

2:57, 3:50-4:05

 
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