Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach

[insaniti]

We will see how Mr Tomlin does as the last of the players he inherited from the Cowher retire. Player development is a great gauge of coaching ability. Right now I put that at John Gruden level. John Gruden did well with a team Tony Dungy built and then crapped the bed when he had to do it with his own personnel.

What about HIS Raiders team that he played in the Super Bowl the year he went with "Dungy's" team? Tired of the "inherited players" argument already. By this metric, might as well wait for Ben to retire before we start giving him credit for winning right?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

We will see how Mr Tomlin does as the last of the players he inherited from the Cowher retire. Player development is a great gauge of coaching ability. Right now I put that at John Gruden level. John Gruden did well with a team Tony Dungy built and then crapped the bed when he had to do it with his own personnel.

Kind of an old line of thought. Who on the offense remains from the Cowher era? Ben? Ben played for Cowher for 3 years. I'd say most of his development came during the Tomlin era. I'm positive most of his career achievements have. Heath? Played for Cowher for 2 years. Again, most of his development as a professional came during the Tomlin era.

The defense is in the middle of a rebuild. But, there aren't any Cowher players there either. Deebo wasn't allowed to crack the line up under Cowher. And let's be clear, not one of those "Cowher" players on the defensive side voluntarily retired other than Smith. They were either let go or not brought back. Most of them were held onto a little too long. But they didn't just "retire" like it was their decision.

So, again 11-5 with mostly his own players last year. I'll take that as a pretty good starting point.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The problem is that on defense Tombert didn't replace the players they lost with equal talent. Instead we got Hood, Jones, Worilds, Thomas, etc.

 

[insaniti]

The problem is that on defense Tombert didn't replace the players they lost with equal talent. Instead we got Hood, Jones, Worilds, Thomas, etc.

But he did replace the people on offense

 

[Ron Burgundy]

But he did replace the people on offense

Yupper, batting .500. I'm an 8-8 coach and we're an 8-8 team. Yeah I know last year they were 11-5 on the strength of the offense but this year the defense will likely be even worse and they'll be damn lucky to be 11-5 again.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The problem is that on defense Tombert didn't replace the players they lost with equal talent. Instead we got Hood, Jones, Worilds, Thomas, etc.

So you're saying that each player has to be replaced with one of "equal talent"? Troy Polamalu has to be replaced by some one Polamalu like, etc? Well hell, they've failed for most of the last 30 some years then. I haven't seen the reincarnations of Greene, Greenwood, Holmes, White, Ham, Lambert, Blount and Shell on this team consistently.

They FAILED miserably in the 2008 and 2009 drafts and by trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by drafting Hood. They seem to have rectified the Hood mistake with the selections of Heyward and Tuitt. The Jury is still out on whether Shazier/Timmons will be as good or better than Timmons/Foote or Timmons/Farrior. Let's give that one a little time instead of seeking instant gratification from a Rookie player. Plus they've built good depth at the ILB position. Jones? I'm tired of saying give him more time ... I don't personally think he'll ever be the pass rushing demon that they thought. So, I hope they get it right this year when it comes to drafting a couple of OLB. Draft a ball hawking FS and move Mitchell to SS to battle with Shamarko. All of the sudden you have the makings of a pretty decent defense ... Steel Curtain good? Probably not. 2000's good? Again, probably not ... at least this year.

So again, I see a plan in place. Hopefully it works and we get to a couple more Super Bowls while Ben is still a top QB.

But, as I said earlier, there are a lot of things you can fault Tomlin for. Being a losing coach isn't one of them.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So you're saying that each player has to be replaced with one of "equal talent"?

Yes. Otherwise you're taking a step backwards. At the moment we have four guys on defense who are pretty good (Heyward, Deebo, Gay, Timmons), a couple of question marks, and a bunch of jabronis.
I'm just saying that Tombert has had a lot more misses than hits when it comes to drafting defense.

 

[antdrewjosh]

So Troy isn't a hall of famer once in generation type talent?? The second he slows down we should have a same type talent ready to go??? Interesting to say the least.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Yes. Otherwise you're taking a step backwards. At the moment we have four guys on defense who are pretty good (Heyward, Deebo, Gay, Timmons), a couple of question marks, and a bunch of jabronis.
I'm just saying that Tombert has had a lot more misses than hits when it comes to drafting defense.

Here's a problem with that hypothesis. Not one of the guys you are trying to replace came right in and was instantly what they became after gaining playing time and familiarity with the defense. So, in essence, what you are asking the replacements to do is something even the guys they're replacing didn't; come right in and be "stars". For a rare few this may happen. For most not. Whether that has been by the coaching staff's design (i.e sitting rookies) or because the defense is complicated or mixture of both.

And I agree that there have been more misses than hits when it comes to defense. I have some hope that last year's defensive draftees come through and signal an end to that cycle. If it doesn't change, if they don't put together a respectable defense, it won't matter how good the offense is. This team will be sunk.

 

[freak]

So Troy isn't a hall of famer once in generation type talent?? The second he slows down we should have a same type talent ready to go??? Interesting to say the least.

no but in the same time you could have drafted a probowl caliber cb and don't lose to much on the secondary .. we downgraded all positions on defense (except maybe heiward )

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Here's a problem with that hypothesis. Not one of the guys you are trying to replace came right in and was instantly what they became after gaining playing time and familiarity with the defense. So, in essence, what you are asking the replacements to do is something even the guys they're replacing didn't; come right in and be "stars". For a rare few this may happen. For most not. Whether that has been by the coaching staff's design (i.e sitting rookies) or because the defense is complicated or mixture of both.

And I agree that there have been more misses than hits when it comes to defense. I have some hope that last year's defensive draftees come through and signal an end to that cycle. If it doesn't change, if they don't put together a respectable defense, it won't matter how good the offense is. This team will be sunk.

Let me clarify. I don't expect a rookie to be as good as the person he replaced immediately but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be as good as the person they replaced in about three years. If they aren't, then yeah I say it's a bad pick. The standard is the standard if you will, obviously. Next man up.

 

[Litos]

I find tomlin as an above average coach (needs better development of D players) and if that makes him the 6th best then the coaching level in general is pretty ******.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

It's funny because if you go on most any board for any other team, you hear the same things about their coaches. So, the coaching level in general must be pretty ******.

 

[madinsomniac]

Coaches have a shelf life... even if he is 6th (in an era of mediocre coaching, btw) his time here is likely closer to the end than the beginning, and that comes from a Non Tomlin Hater....

 

[Xc944]

Kind of an old line of thought. Who on the offense remains from the Cowher era? Ben? Ben played for Cowher for 3 years. I'd say most of his development came during the Tomlin era. I'm positive most of his career achievements have. Heath? Played for Cowher for 2 years. Again, most of his development as a professional came during the Tomlin era.

The defense is in the middle of a rebuild. But, there aren't any Cowher players there either. Deebo wasn't allowed to crack the line up under Cowher. And let's be clear, not one of those "Cowher" players on the defensive side voluntarily retired other than Smith. They were either let go or not brought back. Most of them were held onto a little too long. But they didn't just "retire" like it was their decision.

So, again 11-5 with mostly his own players last year. I'll take that as a pretty good starting point.

bens bad habits came in the Tomlin era. His second year was the best he's played the qb position. He missed a few games but he was great at reading the defense and getting rid of the ball that year. He would run around and be Ben when he had to but he got rid of the ball quick for the most part. He also has several games where he put up a lot of points in the first half and cowher would run the ball the entire second half. His first half stats were through the roof. Tomlin came and the Arians hold it and throw it deep who cares about points chicks dig yards Ben developed

 

[xjx]

Tomlins warts are showing. Frankly, I think its time he is replaced. We have seen all he can do and it isn't playoff caliber coaching or football.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

bens bad habits came in the Tomlin era. His second year was the best he's played the qb position. He missed a few games but he was great at reading the defense and getting rid of the ball that year. He would run around and be Ben when he had to but he got rid of the ball quick for the most part. He also has several games where he put up a lot of points in the first half and cowher would run the ball the entire second half. His first half stats were through the roof. Tomlin came and the Arians hold it and throw it deep who cares about points chicks dig yards Ben developed

Good point. I'd argue that Ben has had really good years in 2013 and 2014 and has become more disciplined.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Kind of an old line of thought. Who on the offense remains from the Cowher era? Ben? Ben played for Cowher for 3 years. I'd say most of his development came during the Tomlin era. I'm positive most of his career achievements have. Heath? Played for Cowher for 2 years. Again, most of his development as a professional came during the Tomlin era.

The defense is in the middle of a rebuild. But, there aren't any Cowher players there either. Deebo wasn't allowed to crack the line up under Cowher. And let's be clear, not one of those "Cowher" players on the defensive side voluntarily retired other than Smith. They were either let go or not brought back. Most of them were held onto a little too long. But they didn't just "retire" like it was their decision.

So, again 11-5 with mostly his own players last year. I'll take that as a pretty good starting point.

Tomlin hindered Ben's development to the point he was getting worse. Tomlin wanted to keep ARians who was ruining Ben. The Rooneys stepped in and forced Arians out. Haley broke Ben out of the street ball Arians encouraged and now Ben is developing again.

Cowher didn't just draft guys and stick them in. He developed players to be ready when it was their turn. It was a cycle. Lloyd gets old, replace him with Gildon. Gildon to Porter. etc. The problem under Tomlin is the new players were subpar so they old guys had to be kept past their primes and at too high of a salary.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Still trying eh? Well, thanks for your opinion.

Again, not gonna get into one of those ongoing, name calling, argumentative rants with you. You should try that schtick with someone else. As it's just not worth my time.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Still trying, no I just gave all the reasons Tomlin sucks at his job and can't build a defense, of course you can't refute my points just like I destroyed you on the Dri thread showing Wheaton excelled where the midget turd failed. You love to claim victory and try to condescend but you are simply football stupid, that is not a slur that is a statement of fact.

Man, you have been trying this shtick with me for about a year now. And as usual it's only a matter of time before your inability to be civil gets you banned again. So, enjoy your stay (short as you will make it). And again, thanks for your opinion (repetitive as it is).

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Keep up your passive aggressive shtick. It's not working and only serves to highlight your inability from cogent football insights, tell me again how good Dri is and how we are all wrong, pompous doesn't begin to describe you.

Apparently reading isn't your strong suit either. Because I never said Dri was good ... but if it fits your shtick, please feel free to ascribe that statement to me.

Have a good night. And again, thanks for your opinion.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Man, you have been trying this shtick with me for about a year now. And as usual it's only a matter of time before your inability to be civil gets you banned again. So, enjoy your stay (short as you will make it). And again, thanks for your opinion (repetitive as it is).

Tomlin built the best offense this team has seen in the last 20 years. The defense sucks I agree but you can't argue with last years offense.

 

[bermudasteel]

bens bad habits came in the Tomlin era. His second year was the best he's played the qb position. He missed a few games but he was great at reading the defense and getting rid of the ball that year. He would run around and be Ben when he had to but he got rid of the ball quick for the most part. He also has several games where he put up a lot of points in the first half and cowher would run the ball the entire second half. His first half stats were through the roof. Tomlin came and the Arians hold it and throw it deep who cares about points chicks dig yards Ben developed

I disagree. Last year was Ben's best year statically and overall...

 

[SteelerAl]

I disagree. Last year was Ben's best year statically and overall...

The other season - besides 2014 - that might be considered Ben's best was 2007 (Tomlin's first season).

 

[south dakota STEEL]

Tomlin raped my dog and Ben watched.

Have no respect for either....