The Rooney's were determined to hire...

[MTC]

Eh.

The loss exposed a glaring weakness on defense.
Hopefully the front office can address those positions that need to be solidified.

FS, MLB and DT.
Not asking for athleitc freaks, but more of a smart playmaker.

DT needs to be a guy who requires double team.
Allows the DE's and LB'ers to run their blitz packages.

If everyone on offense can remain intact.
Tomlin really has to win it all next season

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I don't think Tomlin was hired entirely because of the Rooney rule. It may have been a factor, but there's no way they would have hired Tomlin if they didn't think he would be a good coach.

I think they were impressed with his interview. He's a great interview. The steelers don't hire coaches very often and they knew this was likely their only shot at Tomlin who would certainly get a head coaching job within the next couple years if the steelers hadn't hired him.

They may have thought he was a bit too green, but the steelers were in a unique position. Most teams looking for a new coach have a ****** team. The Steelers were a Super Bowl caliber team with a very experienced coaching staff in place. The Steelers insisted on Tomlin keeping the staff in place. They were his training wheels.

I do think that Tomlin was over his head when hired, but the team was strong enough that it wasn't a bad risk to hire him. It was like drafting a raw QB with upside. He needed time to develop.

He has gotten better as a coach. He's probably better than half the coaches, maybe even a top 10 coach at this point but there's a lot of ****** coaches out there.

I'm torn on Tomlin. He's had it pretty easy with the team he inherited. He has made mistakes that i believe have cost Super Bowls. The biggest was giving Arians so much freedom with Ben. I believe Arians hurt Ben's development by convincing him he had to always look for big plays. Haley is not as good as Arians but Ben has become a better QB under him because he broke Ben out of his street ball mode and forced him to play within an offense.

The problem is, Haley's offense isn't so great. He's had success in ARizona with Warner, Fitz and Bolden. Now he has Ben, Bell and AB. You can draw plays in the dirt and be successful with talent like that. Sometimes that's what the offense feels like. just a random assortment of plays and not something that fits together and sets up other plays.

I think Tomlin let's his coaches do as they will, good or bad. Haley wants to come out in 5 wide vs the Jags, so be it, you're the OC. Butler wants to let Bortles have all day to throw, OK, you're the DC.

Maybe this is because of how Tomlin was hired. That he feels he must defer to his coaches because that was the situation when he was hired. Lebeau did the defense and Arians the offense,

All i know is this team does some dumb ****. Is Tomlin approving the dumb **** or is he just too hands off to know dumb **** is being planned?

 

[6Lombardis]

Tomlin has totally ****** this entire team up. I’m sorry and I’m sick of people making excuses for this fraud.
He was handed a team loaded with talent with two pretty good coordinators when he got here. A young QB just coming into his prime, a future HOF and playmaker on defense in Troy still playing at a high level.
He’s been continuously given excellent talent but can’t seem to get this team where it needs to go.
He’s lost control of this team and it’s evident with idiots like Mitchell yelling outside the Jags locker room before the game. You know he had this team looking ahead to the Pats. The arrogant *** himself was even looking ahead so what would you expect.
They will never get to another lwoB repuS with this guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

“Given talent” or does he have any part in finding it? Your other points are well taken..........

 

[MT~Forged]

BTW, Wig, a while ago I asked you about Montana breweries, which one was yours. I was out this summer at Glacier and loved it. Probably gonna go back. Went to one in Kalispell, Tamarak Brewing, one in Columbia Falls, Bonsai in Whitefish, and another in whitefish. Can't remember some of the other names, dammit.

Wig's place is in Butte, quite a ways south of Glacier NP, called Muddy Creek Brewing. I make the 3 hr pilgrimage every couple months, I have NEVER been disappointed. If you go back to Glacier, you have already hit most of them in the area. I assume you already hit up Whitefish Brewing. Flathead Lake Brewing in Bigfork is REALLY good, especially if you like sour beers.

If you have time, you might want to head south next time and hit up Missoula. Missoula is home to 8 breweries right now, with Lolo Peak just a few miles further south. Missoula has a VERY eclectic blend of breweries. My favorite is Bayern, a traditional Belgian style joint. Kettlehouse is more of a "we do our own thing" shop. Big Sky Brewing is the largest Brewery in MT, that says something. Missoula Brewing is very laid back and family friendly. If you like Wackadoodle strange brews, Imagine Nation is for you. Draught Works is unique with some really good beers, not as out there as I N. Great Burn is, I believe, rather average, they make up for it with a food truck or two outside. Tamarack you have already tried, but you can't go wrong hitting them again, order the full nachos, you can eat for a week. Don't miss The Dram Shop, not a brewery, but a Bottle House.

 

[black and gold apex]

Tomlin does not know how to deal with the me attitude of to many of the Steelers. No vocal leaders, no physicality at all anymore. Tomlin continues to show he is unable to make changes in a game, His management skills truly lack as we have witnessed since his arrival. The defense which was suppose to be his strength have suffered under his time in Pittsburgh. He fired Lebau when in reality he did not address the weakness of the defense. He now gets rid of Haley and keeps all the defensive coaches that could not stop toast from burning in many games this year that we had to rely on Ben to bring back and win in last twenty seconds. The positioned coaches lack teaching skill besides receiver coach who retired. Even under Pittsburgh sports 247 Ben says he was not wanting Haley gone to keep consistency. May Tomlin is the one Ben is frustrated with.

 

[bmoritz]

Ummm. How about currently? How many years has Tomlin been doing this? !0 years? 11 years?


Denver....Nope
Baltimore...LOL...Really?They are huge under achievers.
Seattle...Nope
Colts....LOL What has Luck ever done?
Giants....They are in sad shape
Packers...Probably the most inconsistant most hyped team out there.
NO....what have they done that is better than Tomlin?

I stopped Belicheat and the Pats. Your list show a bunch of teams that have some big up years and some big downs years. A few are off the map right now. Actually your list is pretty bad. Sorry dude.

You asked what teams have done what the Steelers have accomplished during Tomlin's time. Tomlin has won one Super Bowl. I gave you a list of the teams that have done that or better during his time here. You want to talk about currently? It's been 9 years since we won the big game. What championships has Tomlin "currently" won?

 

[bmoritz]

LOL....My question was name a HC and team tha has done it as well as Tomlin has since he has been here.. SMH.Short list. And look. I am not a Tomlin fan. I just have the understanding that he isn't going anywhere. And blowing up a team when you are in a win now spot usually doesn't work that well.

No, it wasn't, go back and read your original post. Your question was "Name the other teams that can boast what Tomlin and the Steelers have done in his time here?" That's exactly what I did, you just don't like the answer. And to your point, replacing an ineffective head coach is not "blowing up a team", ask the Penguins. Sticking with the coaching status quo when you consistently fall flat in big games doesn't work.

 

[bmoritz]

I don't care if other coaches have also won one Super Bowl as much as were they also competitive in the years they did not. I am not a ******* greedy fan who has to have a super bowl every year or *****. Despite all the whining about Tomlin we still have the most wins of any team and we seem to be in the hunt every year. Really how much ******* more can we ask for. Winning the Super Bowl every year cheapens the accomplishment what other team has had the same success over 5 decades none! the closest is the ******* Cheats in the last couple and they don't count. We have achieved this for better or worse through patience and consistency. There are thirty one other teams that have fewer SB wins then us stop the crying until we truly suck.

So you're fine with consistent early playoff exits? and what do you mean by "truly suck"? We shouldn't make a change until we're the Browns?

 

[bigtwnvin]

Ya'll are out of your tree. Losing brings irrational thinking and hysterics.

So then would it be ok to engage in irrational thinking to facilitate losing?

 

[bigtwnvin]

Wig's place is in Butte, quite a ways south of Glacier NP, called Muddy Creek Brewing. I make the 3 hr pilgrimage every couple months, I have NEVER been disappointed. If you go back to Glacier, you have already hit most of them in the area. I assume you already hit up Whitefish Brewing. Flathead Lake Brewing in Bigfork is REALLY good, especially if you like sour beers.

If you have time, you might want to head south next time and hit up Missoula. Missoula is home to 8 breweries right now, with Lolo Peak just a few miles further south. Missoula has a VERY eclectic blend of breweries. My favorite is Bayern, a traditional Belgian style joint. Kettlehouse is more of a "we do our own thing" shop. Big Sky Brewing is the largest Brewery in MT, that says something. Missoula Brewing is very laid back and family friendly. If you like Wackadoodle strange brews, Imagine Nation is for you. Draught Works is unique with some really good beers, not as out there as I N. Great Burn is, I believe, rather average, they make up for it with a food truck or two outside. Tamarack you have already tried, but you can't go wrong hitting them again, order the full nachos, you can eat for a week. Don't miss The Dram Shop, not a brewery, but a Bottle House.

Been a bunch of years since I've been to Montana but when I worked in Wyoming, Oregon and Washington the brews of choice were Rainier, Olympia and Hamm's. Hammies used to come in cans shaped like beer kegs ��

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

So you're fine with consistent early playoff exits? and what do you mean by "truly suck"? We shouldn't make a change until we're the Browns?

Considering we made the AFC Championship last year and earned a bye this year I would not describe that as consistently early, disappointing yes. Early to me is a wildcard knock out to a lower seed. By truly suck I mean, and this is just my opinion, a losing season or two with no playoffs, or not making the playoffs for 2 to 3 years straight even if we don't have a losing record.

 

[MTC]

Back in the Hampton, Smith, Kiesel, Farrior, Porter, Clark and Polamula days. Fournette would not have crossed 70 yards rushing in either game. The Steelers get pushed around now and straight up punked on defense.

Definitely starts in the trenches.
Hampton required a double/triple team at times.

Aaron Smith/Brett Kiesel/Kimo Von Oelhoffen knew how to seal edges.
The Steelers were hard to run on cause the line set up to trap the running game into the linebackers hands.

Of course coverage was great as well. Ike played generally well man coverage.
Clark was very smart in the backfield and never really took bad angles.


Troy was just special. A freak. Changed the dynamic of the defense

 

[Steeler Pride]

Considering we made the AFC Championship last year and earned a bye this year I would not describe that as consistently early, disappointing yes. Early to me is a wildcard knock out to a lower seed. By truly suck I mean, and this is just my opinion, a losing season or two with no playoffs, or not making the playoffs for 2 to 3 years straight even if we don't have a losing record.

Despite the talent level of the team of the number of all-pro players we have? This team has routinely underachieved, this year was no different.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Despite the talent level of the team of the number of all-pro players we have? This team has routinely underachieved, this year was no different.

Considering our lack of depth at ILB following Shazier’s injury and Dirty Red. I really did not get my expectations up that high. I thought we had a chance but that we are still undermanned on defense with those injuries. Ryan was integral to the functioning of our defense and without him we lost what strides we had made. So no I don’t think we underachieved this year on that side of the ball in fact to what I expected we actually over achieved on defense at least. I do think play calling by Butler could have been better against the Jags I would have gambled much more as we were giving up scores anyway. The offense overachieved in production at least after the first quarter or so considering the defense they were facing.

I am disappointed but I can live with the outcome based on what I saw going in. I think we need to shore up holes on defense and keep what we have on offense and we should be in better shape this coming year.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steeler Pride]

Considering our lack of depth at ILB following Shazier’s injury and Dirty Red. I really did not get my expectations up that high. I thought we had a chance but that we are still undermanned on defense with those injuries. Ryan was integral to the functioning of our defense and without him we lost what strides we had made. So no I don’t think we underachieved this year on that side of the ball in fact to what I expected we actually over achieved on defense at least. I do think play calling by Butler could have been better against the Jags I would have gambled much more as we were giving up scores anyway. The offense overachieved in production at least after the first quarter or so considering the defense they were facing.

I am disappointed but I can live with the outcome based on what I saw going in. I think we need to shore up holes on defense and keep what we have on offense and we should be in better shape this coming year.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

38 points to Blake Bortles and you don't consider that under achieving?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

38 points to Blake Bortles and you don't consider that under achieving?

DId you read what I said? I said I thought Butler could have put us in better situations on defense to make some big plays but considering how the first game went and the fact that they are a good team I was not overly shocked by the outcome considering the turnovers. I really think people underestimate just what Ryan meant to this defense and it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out how to attack it without him with a few weeks of tapes to study.

 

[Steeler Pride]

DId you read what I said? I said I thought Butler could have put us in better situations on defense to make some big plays but considering how the first game went and the fact that they are a good team I was not overly shocked by the outcome considering the turnovers. I really think people underestimate just what Ryan meant to this defense and it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out how to attack it without him with a few weeks of tapes to study.

Turnovers were 5% of the reason we lost that game. That was one of the most inexcusable losses of the Tomlin era.

I also think there is some revisionist history now being applied to Shazier. I hope for nothing but the best for Shazier, but he was not the end all be all on this defense. We gave up 30 points to the Packers with Brett Hundley at QB WITH Shazier in the Defense. Shazier had a bad habit of overrunning plays and taking himself out of position as well. So lets not make it out like we replaced Ben with Landry here.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Turnovers were 5% of the reason we lost that game. That was one of the most inexcusable losses of the Tomlin era.

I also think there is some revisionist history now being applied to Shazier. I hope for nothing but the best for Shazier, but he was not the end all be all on this defense. We gave up 30 points to the Packers with Brett Hundley at QB WITH Shazier in the Defense. Shazier had a bad habit of overrunning plays and taking himself out of position as well. So lets not make it out like we replaced Ben with Landry here.

Well to be honest it was like replacing Ben with Landry Ben is a great player but he makes mistakes trying to hard just like Ryan. Yes Shazier overran plays and got out of position but unlike what we ended up with he was also capable of making big plays and recovering from overrunning the play. Spence was not even just a guy and Fort is ok but better at replacing Williams than Ryan so while so he was not perfect it was a huge drop off in comparable talent and totally changed what we could feasibly call. This why I said we for the most part overachieved on defense most of the year. The Green Bay game even with Shazier was an indicator of what could happen. We are still to thin on defense which is the only reason I am somewhat willing to live with Butler for another year and see if he learns. I would not cry too much if he was replaced.

 

[wig]

BTW, Wig, a while ago I asked you about Montana breweries, which one was yours. I was out this summer at Glacier and loved it. Probably gonna go back. Went to one in Kalispell, Tamarak Brewing, one in Columbia Falls, Bonsai in Whitefish, and another in whitefish. Can't remember some of the other names, dammit.

Muddy Creek in Butte America! ;-)

 

[wig]

Do I think Tomlin should be fired? No. Do I think he should start taking the "coaching" side of his job a LOT more seriously? Hell ya!

 

[wig]

Forged, it warms my heart that you have enjoyed your stops at Muddy Creek. We work hard to make an exceptional product and a great atmosphere.

Of the Missoula breweries, my heart always drifts toward Bayern and Kettlehouse. We opened Muddy Creek after doing a blind taste test of my chocolate stout against Cold Smoke. (Kettlehouse's top beer for you who don't know MT breweries.)
Muddy Creek was picked 9 to 1 so we figured we could make it as a brewery. So far it's going ok.

 

[Chicoman]

a talented young black coach. Instead, they hired a young, black coach who said the right things. Tomlin excels at "saying the right things." what he does not do well is coach professional football.
Unfortunately, the rooney's were absolutely adamant that they would find and hire a talented young black coach.
I sincerely wish they'd found one.

obviously!

 

[Xc944]

Turnovers were 5% of the reason we lost that game. That was one of the most inexcusable losses of the Tomlin era.

I also think there is some revisionist history now being applied to Shazier. I hope for nothing but the best for Shazier, but he was not the end all be all on this defense. We gave up 30 points to the Packers with Brett Hundley at QB WITH Shazier in the Defense. Shazier had a bad habit of overrunning plays and taking himself out of position as well. So lets not make it out like we replaced Ben with Landry here.

he also gets over powered in the run game very over rated by steeler fans just like timmons was

 

[papillon]

Turnovers were 5% of the reason we lost that game. That was one of the most inexcusable losses of the Tomlin era.

I also think there is some revisionist history now being applied to Shazier. I hope for nothing but the best for Shazier, but he was not the end all be all on this defense. We gave up 30 points to the Packers with Brett Hundley at QB WITH Shazier in the Defense. Shazier had a bad habit of overrunning plays and taking himself out of position as well. So lets not make it out like we replaced Ben with Landry here.

Well, actually, it was like replacing Ben with Landry and then replacing Landry with a guy that was at home watching football on his couch. Shazier was injured, then Matakevich went down, the Steelers brought in Spence and he finished the season.

Papillon

 

[Drink IRON City]

Well, actually, it was like replacing Ben with Landry and then replacing Landry with a guy that was at home watching football on his couch. Shazier was injured, then Matakevich went down, the Steelers brought in Spence and he finished the season.

Papillon

JUST to be clear,.........It wasn't JUST the replacement of one player with a third tier player that lost that game. If ONE player makes that much difference on that unit, then God forbid the shitfest of coaching involved in that Defensive unit.



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