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Tag and trade Bud?

Coryea said:
So basically if Chickallo played the same number of snaps, his career stats would look like this: 26 sacks, 9 PD's, 10 FF, 10 FR, 51 QB Hits.

Bud's career stats are 31 sacks, 9 PD's, 6 FF, 3 FR, 50 QB Hits.

For comparison, Watt has played 1,000 less snaps than Dupree and has 3 more career sacks.
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Your numbers are skewed. Some of Chicks FFs and FRs are on ST. Take his best season when he started nearly half the year in 16. 2.5 sacks and 2 FFs translates to 4 FFs and 5 sacks. Chick has never been good and took a step back last year when he looked slower, couldn't generate any pressure, and got blown off the line on running plays.
 
43Hitman said:
Honestly man if the team actually thought Chic could/would perform that way, we wouldn't even be having the tag Bud discussion. But interesting extrapolation none-the-less.

Let me ask you this, when you have seen Chic on the field did you get the feeling that wow, this guy needs more playing time? Or, like me did you see a guy that pretty much looks lost out there and was underwhelming in pass coverage?
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Or do you see someone who likely beats people off the field more than on the field....
If Alysha hadn't dropped the charges he wouldn't even be in the league

Personally I thought Alysha would have won this "chic fight"
 
Cope said:
Your numbers are skewed. Some of Chicks FFs and FRs are on ST. Take his best season when he started nearly half the year in 16. 2.5 sacks and 2 FFs translates to 4 FFs and 5 sacks. Chick has never been good and took a step back last year when he looked slower, couldn't generate any pressure, and got blown off the line on running plays.
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Chic sucks, they could cut him today and I'd care less, definitely not as good as Dupree. I just took his defensive snaps count. I didn't have time to go through each game and see if it was a special teams turnover or defensive.
 
Cope said:
And I'm making a prediction. Chickillo will be cut before the start of the new league year.
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I don't think Chick is horrible but his production vs. salary isn't there. With Durpee you're gambling that he has a high ceiling and will grow into his contract and not be a one-year-wonder.
 
Coryea said:
Chic sucks, they could cut him today and I'd care less, definitely not as good as Dupree. I just took his defensive snaps count. I didn't have time to go through each game and see if it was a special teams turnover or defensive.
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Dupree played for years on special teams so you'd have to look through his games, game by game.
 
Litos said:
This thread is becoming redundant. The mods should make a poll, what price in a 4 years contract would you be happy with?:
A) 12M avg
B) 14M avg
C) 16M avg
D) +16M avg
E) tag him at 16M and decide next season

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I'd be up for 12per but with the tag being 16 guarenteed up front that simply isn't gonna happen. With an average of 12 he probably wouldn't be guarenteed 20. He is guarenteed 16 on the tag alone.
 
SteelerSask said:
I'd be up for 12per but with the tag being 16 guarenteed up front that simply isn't gonna happen. With an average of 12 he probably wouldn't be guarenteed 20. He is guarenteed 16 on the tag alone.
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I think 14M would be fair for both sides. With 35M guaranteed you could cut him in the 3rd season with minimal consequence to the cap.

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43Hitman said:
Honestly man if the team actually thought Chic could/would perform that way, we wouldn't even be having the tag Bud discussion. But interesting extrapolation($13.26) none-the-less.

Let me ask you this, when you have seen Chic on the field did you get the feeling that wow, this guy needs more playing time? Or, like me did you see a guy that pretty much looks lost out there and was underwhelming in pass coverage? (YES)
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GREAT minds think alike.....................................................Chick should be gone even if by cap casualty. Might keep him for insurance but he would have to re-negotiate cap friendly.





Salute the nation
 
Litos said:
I think 14M would be fair for both sides. With 35M guaranteed you could cut him in the 3rd season with minimal consequence to the cap.

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Are you talking 4 or 5 years. 35 divided by 4 is nearly 9 million of dead cap space for 2 years. I'd say that's more than minimal. And if you are saying 5 that's 21 in dead money over three.
 
Coryea said:
No one is saying to just let him walk, but most are saying not to over pay for him.
Someone else will play OLB. They didn't a CB opposite Haden last off-season, that worked out ok. Maybe Ola steps up

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When you consider overpaying him to be $16 Mill then you are saying to let him walk. That is not big money for pass rushers. It's pretty average for anybody proven. Za'Darius Smith got 4 years 66 Million and average of 16.5 from Green Bay last year and he was comparable to Bud last year. If you think you can get Bud for less than that, you're crazy.

CB is much different than pass rush. There are tons of CBs available. The Steelers signed Steven Nelson last year and he was a proven starter. Not a top end but he was a known commodity. They got him on a good deal. You don't find deals on pass rushers. The only way you get a deal is if you sign a guy who has underperformed and he somehow develops into a great player.

Factor in that the steelers are without a 1st round pick as well, so that means you can't count on drafting an impact rookie pass rusher. Maybe you get lucky on a guy in a later round but you can't count on that.

Steelers are in win now mode with time running out on Ben. No way you go into the season with a question mark at OLB.

I agree you can't just pay Bud anything, there is a point where you have to let him leave but it's more than $16 Mil.

The case for Bud is that he has steadily improved after he was derailed by multiple injuries early in his career. He's like the defensive version of Emanuel Sanders.
 
SteelerSask said:
Are you talking 4 or 5 years. 35 divided by 4 is nearly 9 million of dead cap space for 2 years. I'd say that's more than minimal. And if you are saying 5 that's 21 in dead money over three.
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You are right, I meant to say 25M , 6.25M each season

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tapeANaspirin2it said:
When you consider overpaying him to be $16 Mill then you are saying to let him walk. That is not big money for pass rushers. It's pretty average for anybody proven. Za'Darius Smith got 4 years 66 Million and average of 16.5 from Green Bay last year and he was comparable to Bud last year. If you think you can get Bud for less than that, you're crazy.

CB is much different than pass rush. There are tons of CBs available. The Steelers signed Steven Nelson last year and he was a proven starter. Not a top end but he was a known commodity. They got him on a good deal. You don't find deals on pass rushers. The only way you get a deal is if you sign a guy who has underperformed and he somehow develops into a great player.

Factor in that the steelers are without a 1st round pick as well, so that means you can't count on drafting an impact rookie pass rusher. Maybe you get lucky on a guy in a later round but you can't count on that.

Steelers are in win now mode with time running out on Ben. No way you go into the season with a question mark at OLB.

I agree you can't just pay Bud anything, there is a point where you have to let him leave but it's more than $16 Mil.

The case for Bud is that he has steadily improved after he was derailed by multiple injuries early in his career. He's like the defensive version of Emanuel Sanders.
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I've said I'd tag him if need be, but I don't want them giving him big money on a long term deal, he's not one of the top OLB's in the NFL.
Smith started 16 games in Baltimore and had 19 sacks and alot of QB hits prior to Green Bay signing him last offseason, Bud before this season started 39 games here and had 20 sacks and his QB hits were very low, Green Bay gave him 16 million per, but he averaged more than a sack per start.
 
What sucks with tagging him with the exclusive (I'd rather go non-exclusive) is that he and his agent now think he is one of the top 5 OLB's in the league and he is nowhere close to that. They instantly think he is worth at least $16+ million per year and he is not. Someone might pay him that but I wouldn't. I think he is in the $12 million per year range. The Steelers also won't give him huge guaranteed money like other teams will. They will give him their norm which is around one years salary.
 
TDX27 said:
What sucks with tagging him with the exclusive (I'd rather go non-exclusive) is that he and his agent now think he is one of the top 5 OLB's in the league and he is nowhere close to that. They instantly think he is worth at least $16+ million per year and he is not. Someone might pay him that but I wouldn't. I think he is in the $12 million per year range. The Steelers also won't give him huge guaranteed money like other teams will. They will give him their norm which is around one years salary.
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This is exactly what I've been saying as well. I think the only way he signs long term here is we over pay for him, because his agent will know what other teams are willing to pay, and there's enough teams with a ton of cap room that would have no issue over paying and giving him alot guaranteed. It's looking more and more like he'll be tagged.
 
I believe they extended the tag deadline- days with the CBA negotiations still ongoing.

I know it is generally believed Hargrave is gone but with the new CBA they would be able to use two tags say on Bud and Hargrave if desired. (Not that they will)
 
slashsteel said:
I believe they extended the tag deadline- days with the CBA negotiations still ongoing.

I know it is generally believed Hargrave is gone but with the new CBA they would be able to use two tags say on Bud and Hargrave if desired. (Not that they will)
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Yeah, I seriously doubt there will be a differntiation between top interior lineman and what Hargrave does as a situational 3-4 nose. They won't be able to pay him the going rate even if it is an option.
 
slashsteel said:
I believe they extended the tag deadline- days with the CBA negotiations still ongoing.

I know it is generally believed Hargrave is gone but with the new CBA they would be able to use two tags say on Bud and Hargrave if desired. (Not that they will)
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Even if they could it would be spending a tag price on a position that plays 40%of the snaps, just too much money. Rather use it on a TE

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Coryea said:
This is exactly what I've been saying as well. I think the only way he signs long term here is we over pay for him, because his agent will know what other teams are willing to pay, and there's enough teams with a ton of cap room that would have no issue over paying and giving him alot guaranteed. It's looking more and more like he'll be tagged.
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Usually, a team can get out of a long term deal. Bud may not want a long term deal himself. Right now he's in line for a good contract, but if he puts together another big season, then next year he could break the bank.

If they give Bud a long term deal with like 70% of it guaranteed, then I'd be nervous. If it's similar to Za'Darius SMith's deal where only like 30% of it is guaranteed, then it's a great deal for the steelers because they could likely get out of it in a year or so if they get a younger cheaper guy.

They MUST keep him this year though. If it's on a tag, then fine. They can't have a hole at OLB because i don't see a suitable alternative in free agency.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
Usually, a team can get out of a long term deal. Bud may not want a long term deal himself. Right now he's in line for a good contract, but if he puts together another big season, then next year he could break the bank.

If they give Bud a long term deal with like 70% of it guaranteed, then I'd be nervous. If it's similar to Za'Darius SMith's deal where only like 30% of it is guaranteed, then it's a great deal for the steelers because they could likely get out of it in a year or so if they get a younger cheaper guy.

They MUST keep him this year though. If it's on a tag, then fine. They can't have a hole at OLB because i don't see a suitable alternative in free agency.
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He could take the Flacco route and basically bet on himself, between the 9 million this past season and the 16.5 tag this year, that's 25 million over the last two years, if he has a big year he'll definitely be in line to cash out in 2021

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tapeANaspirin2it said:
Usually, a team can get out of a long term deal. Bud may not want a long term deal himself. Right now he's in line for a good contract, but if he puts together another big season, then next year he could break the bank.

If they give Bud a long term deal with like 70% of it guaranteed, then I'd be nervous. If it's similar to Za'Darius SMith's deal where only like 30% of it is guaranteed, then it's a great deal for the steelers because they could likely get out of it in a year or so if they get a younger cheaper guy.

They MUST keep him this year though. If it's on a tag, then fine. They can't have a hole at OLB because i don't see a suitable alternative in free agency.
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I remember Z. Smith, Liked him in round 4 that year. Who is to say one of the edge veteran free agents won't be better than Bud this coming season? Bud is NOT worth the tag price. Heck he's probably at best the 5th best player on defense. They all can't make 20 million a year. Cap management for the Steelers remains a big issue. Give me the cap space, and we can get three good players.
 
Steelers are one of the better cap management teams. But keep spewing bullshit.
 
Coach said:
I remember Z. Smith, Liked him in round 4 that year. Who is to say one of the edge veteran free agents won't be better than Bud this coming season? Bud is NOT worth the tag price. Heck he's probably at best the 5th best player on defense. They all can't make 20 million a year. Cap management for the Steelers remains a big issue. Give me the cap space, and we can get three good players.
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8-8 or less is where you'd be headed. 5 million dollar players grow on trees and play like it as well.






Salute the nation
 
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