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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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Tibs said:
I think the fascination with Archer for the likes of TMC, Idioteque, Vader and others is that they simply didn't like Archer heading into the draft, and took personal offense at the fact the Steelers brain trust drafted him. Not only drafted him, but thought highly enough of him, to take him at the end of the 3rd round. That means that he was much higher on their board than what our respected armchair draft analysts thought of him. And again, that's gotta hurt a little, given the fascination we all have with predicting where players will go, and which players the Steelers will end up picking. So in my estimation it boils down to a matter of pride, more than anything else. That's why there's so much vitriol being spread around. Hopefully, once the team hits the field and the games begin, the anger and hate will recede.
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You should stick to your day job. Your attempt at psychiatry sucks ***. They draft very few players that I had rated high. It almost never happens the way people think. The thing about it is that IF the Clowns had taken him you guys would be deriding them and talking about how they reached for a smurf. But because the Steelers drafted him you love him. I know this because almost every year people are high on a guy and he gets drafted by another team and all of a sudden these draft gods now hate him. It has nothing to do with pride because regardless of who took him I wasn't going to like him in the first 5 rounds. The only difference is that I can look at the guy the same way while you people can't. You decide how good a player is by who they are drafted NOT how well they play in college etc...
 
antdrewjosh said:
Did they draft him to start?? Is the arguement against him the round he was picked. His stature or both. I just dont see how he was picked at all reading TMC posts. He doesnt do anything well reading that. Makes me think everyone should be fired. How didnt they see you everything you are seeing from your computer screen.

He is by no means a finished product at receiver thats true. I see skills that can help in his translation. Others see none.

If he can catch the ball(all reports say he can) I see skills that would make him a good punt returner. Its all projection. I say he has a shot. I dont see the no chance at all from this kid. The stuff he doesnt do well dont ask him to do. We have other guys for that anyway. Put the kid in matchups that you think he can capitilize on. Thats what I think the plan is for him.
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Tibs said:
I think the fascination with Archer for the likes of TMC, Idioteque, Vader and others is that they simply didn't like Archer heading into the draft, and took personal offense at the fact the Steelers brain trust drafted him. Not only drafted him, but thought highly enough of him, to take him at the end of the 3rd round. That means that he was much higher on their board than what our respected armchair draft analysts thought of him. And again, that's gotta hurt a little, given the fascination we all have with predicting where players will go, and which players the Steelers will end up picking. So in my estimation it boils down to a matter of pride, more than anything else. That's why there's so much vitriol being spread around. Hopefully, once the team hits the field and the games begin, the anger and hate will recede.
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Here we go with the computer screen and armchair draft analysis **** again. Blah, blah, blah.

Again, **** like that is why I have posted here less and less. Again, you boys can have this ****. You cannot discuss the merits of a player without someone that watched a handful of highlights and read about a guy dragging up that ****.

Heard it all before. When someone posts something against a player you are in the middle of blowing, you have to drag it into this area. I am done. Archer is yours. Just make sure you secure the child carrier in your car when you take him home and, if the police get wind that you are tonsil deep on him, you may fall into the realm of Hank the Tank.

Done with this ****. Forget talking football around here, those days are dead.
 
The merits according to who??? You? I dont see all the things your tyring to portray. I didnt say I see wes walker in the slot. I see someone we can use to exploit matchups. I see potential. Does he need work yes as a receiver yes he was a RB so of course. Is he fighting the ball or does he catch with soft relaxed hands. Highlights lol. Its not hard to see more then just highlights. Its not a legit question to ask how the scouts coaches didnt see all these questions you are trying to raise? I sure as hell dont see his issues to the extreme you do.
 
TMC said:
Done with this ****. Forget talking football around here, those days are dead.
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With all due respect, isn't it a little ironic to post a comment like this in a 67-page thread that's gone on for three weeks now, discussing and dissecting the most minute detail of Archer's game? You and others have knocked down every positive aspect that's been posted. Seems like there isn't a single thing about Archer that you are positive about. That's called being hypercritical, where nothing regarding Archer is good enough or acceptable. I think those in support of the pick readily admit he has holes in his game, has a huge size disadvantage, is fighting an uphill battle to make it. I happen to think he will make it, you happen to think he won't. Not the end of the world. I've thoroughly enjoyed the debate, regardless of how frustrating it's been to see some of you guys completely stonewall the kid and not even give him a fighter's chance.
 
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Exactly. We are dissecting a late third round pick. I see with his size he will need to make up for it or have the offensive play calling make up for it by using his strengths i.e. speed and agility. I see he isn't a great pass catcher, seems to short arm or let a ball get to his body, of course same can be said about Bryant. I hope the coaching staff can teach him better technique. The thing is I can dissect any third round pick and find flaws in his game and that's why they lasted to the third. The thing I see with Archer is potential. Potential in the return game, run game, and passing game. Yes, we all know you don't like the pick but too bad he's a steeler now!
 
TMC said:
Here we go with the computer screen and armchair draft analysis **** again. Blah, blah, blah.

Again, **** like that is why I have posted here less and less. Again, you boys can have this ****. You cannot discuss the merits of a player without someone that watched a handful of highlights and read about a guy dragging up that ****.

Heard it all before. When someone posts something against a player you are in the middle of blowing, you have to drag it into this area. I am done. Archer is yours. Just make sure you secure the child carrier in your car when you take him home and, if the police get wind that you are tonsil deep on him, you may fall into the realm of Hank the Tank.

Done with this ****. Forget talking football around here, those days are dead.
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Taking your ball and going home doesn't really seem to be the appropriate response. I don't think you should let people bother you that much. As far as football talk and such.. I think its just a reality with this new NFL that you get a lot of casual fans so you can't have as good of conversation as in the past. Rog's NFL.
 
bermudasteel said:
I can't believe this thread still has life...
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I know, but I'm getting a sinking feeling because it looks like a couple people are wanting to jump ship on it now. 100 pages is within sight and 75 is so close I can taste it.
 
TMC said:
Let me see if I can explain and answer your points....



No doubt he was an electric player in college, well, for one season anyway. If you look at his career as a whole, his first two seasons, he basically did nothing. We are talking less than 250 yards rushing or receiving in either season. His third year, after missing a season due to academics, he explodes. Unreal season. But, with 159 carries and 39 receptions, he began to wear down. He had shoulder issues, a knee issue, and then an ankle injury to end that season. He goes into his senior season, re-injures the same ankle. His HC moved him to WR to better showcase his skills and he literally stunk it up. He was moved back to RB. I do not think he is a great receiving threat from the backfield. He has more than his fair share of drops due to his propensity to body catch the football. He does not adjust well to the ball in the air (and granted his QB was not great, but you do not see great changes in body position to make catches). He does not have great hands. So, as a dump or checkdown guy, sure, but not as a RB that will run more complex routes, especially down the field. He does not challenge high passes and low ones seem to eat him up. As I have stated, knees to shoulders. Gotta get it on his body.
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I don't discredit your assessment of his injuries, or ability to catch, but this kid is flat out explosive. Not many kids get over 1000 yds in college and average 9yds per ******* carry. The kid has ability, and if he stays healthy, it is an asset.


TMC said:
He hustles. I think he is a worker. Did notice in full film versions, not cutups, that when he works as a receiver and is not the first option, he loafs. Randy Mossish. Ball better be coming to him or anyone can cover him, blanket him, because he drags ***. More concerned about his lack of adjusting to that pass behind him or the passes over his head or the passes a little long. With all that speed, where is it? With his quick feet, why no adjustments? Puzzling. Problems with guys that are just learning the WR position, have not played it their whole life, cannot judge the ball in the air well, often fail to make those adjustments to get in position. Just cannot track it on the fly. I always say I like WRs that go and get the football in the air and what I mean is, when they see it, you see them speed up, slow down, adjust, and do the things prior to it getting there to put them in position to challenge. Not Archer, does not know how. Can he learn it? Maybe. May never get it. Some guys that play WR their whole lives cannot do it well.
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I agree 100% he is not a polished receiver. I believe his strength receiving is out of the backfield and in the slot coming in motion to take a handoff or a short pass. He also can be used in misdirection plays to get him in space and get him the ball, weather down field or in the flat.

I was on with you 100% also with Keenan Allan. Thought he had the best hands I've seen since Fitzgerald, and Archer has terrible hands comparitively. Still doesn't mean he can't be a weapon. I see his ceiling as Eric Metcalf. He's not a starter but he can be a playmaker and a game changer, and I'm fine with that.

TMC said:
Really do not want to draft a guy hoping he can get flags so we can move the chains. Especially with the 3rd round pick.
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And I too understand we can't rely on flags, as I stated previously.

TMC said:
Why didn't he do it as a freshman, sophomore, or junior? He had 6 punt returns (actually 8 because he fair caught 2) and managed 8 yards I think. Kent State had 78 total returns over his career and he only got 6. Forget about his senior year, what about the other three? They have a freshman doing it this season. Archer could not do it as a freshman? Sophomore?
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Don't know, his breakout year was his junior year, and he was utilized as much possible that year.


TMC said:
Do I think he gets a chance to return punts? Absolutely. I think he is the first guy off the bench all preseason. But, I think the issues that kept him from doing it in college will show themselves. Coaches can say the right things about guys they like, but if they are not playing the guy and do not have some elite player in front of him, that is pretty telling.
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I hear your opinion, and we will see what he is capable of when he actually does it. I still don't think he will return punts inside the 20. Not something our team does with rookies, but I do think he'll get a shot.

TMC said:
Think about what you just said. Great 40. Excellent bench for his weight. Added 20 pounds of muscle while at Kent State. So, he works out hard, runs well, up to speed quick and long strides. Sounds like a track guy. And a weight room warrior. You are right, he is not like other small backs. You use short, but under 180 pounds is small. And, small runningbacks almost never, not rarely, but almost never have extended careers in the NFL and the only one I can think of recently to make it past 4 seasons is McCluster, and those were pretty ho-hum years. People often bring up small players like Tavon Austin, but they are edge guys, away from the meat grinder, and you can survive there. Problem is, Archer is not a receiver, not even close.
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I agree, the kid is small, but he long strides like a ******* gazelle! He is 5'8 and he's hit the stride record of a 6'5 guy. THAT IS IN ******* CREDIBLE NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT!! This is a special freak kind of kid. Small but elusive and a long strider. If he stays healthy, I expect explosive plays, which is something we don't have on O outside of Brown.

TMC said:
At this time, I consider that 3rd round pick a throwaway pick, kind of like the pick they did not take with Sanders. I think he is here this season, maybe a couple more, but I doubt he is anything to get excited about. I am not. Of all the picks made by the Steelers this draft, I think that Archer is at the bottom of the list for me. I believe the others have a better chance of being every down contributors than Archer does. He is what he is, a small runningback with limited receiving skills that drops passes, cannot block, and runs very fast. A model citizen Chris Rainey.
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I understand your stance, but this kid is not Rainey, he's not Reid, and he's not Dunn. I'm not hoping for a starter, because he never will be. I see his ceiling as Eric Metcalf, and that kid could kill us single handedly in a game. If we get a couple wins a season due to his productivity, this pick is a win for me.
 
The Chiefs picked the 5-9 174 De Anthony Thomas from Oregon in the 4th round. Wonder why our guys thought that Archer was superior to Thomas? Could be that we were afraid that the extra pound would slow him down.
 
Vader said:
To me the risk/ reward made no sense. Even according to the Steelers he is a part time player. Why draft a guy that high that has no possibility of starting, has no real position in the NFL, isn't a PR, is small, short and the very best he could ever be is McCluster? And that is IF they can teach him to punt return, stop fumbling, stay healthy and run routes. The odds are so against him I'd rather have someone with much more upside.
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Out of the guys that were left do you have someone in mind that you think was better and why do you think he is better?
 
I know I've made several gratuitous jokes at Archer's expense. No harm done, as they all sailed over his head anyways. But fwiw, I don't hate the pick. Don't love it either, but I don't loathe it like I have quite a number of past picks. There are some things there that make me think, 'well, maybe'. Then there are some things that make me think, 'not a chance'. I dunno. Frame/fumbles/hands bother me. Love his freak speed/athleticism. Just worried he'll be making as many splash plays for the other team as his own. That, or spend most of his contract in the tub.

Every draft there are always probably 100 or more players I absolutely don't want. There are 40, maybe 50 I do want. Then there's the vast middle of draftable players who I could take or leave, but am more than fine/content with 'leave'. Archer is in that middle for me. Better value would make it more palatable, I suppose. R3 is a bit rich. Tho I did half like Goodwin last year, and he's not that much bigger than Archer. Sure didn't like him where he ended up going. R5 tops imo, but I dunno. Maybe the reach for Goodwin last year set Archer's value this year. The funny thing to me tho is that nobody here felt his value was that high before the draft. Well, no Steeler fan, tho EdReed4Prez did mock him to the Ravens at 3.99. The handful of Steeler fans who did consider him, valued him somewhere between R5 and UDFA. Otherwise, nobody seemed to like him enough to bother bringing him up in any of the 10,000 mock mocks. And if anything Goodwin should drag Archer's value, not set it. Broke his hand on his first touch, came back only to end the season nicked up with a knee injury. In between, was just a guy.

And the other funny thing to me is, if you think back to all the past drafts on this board where a non-first round pick generated this level of discord/discourse, has the side that didn't like the pick ever been wrong? Adams, Rainey, Dwyer, Shipley, Bruce Davis, Tony Hills, Spaeth, Reid, Essex, Colclough, Alonzo Jackson. I remember long lengthy heated debates about all those guys. Only 'successes' were maybe Essex and Spaeth, but even with them, the argument over both of those guys was mostly (over)value. And that's proved true. Spaeth was a reach in a historically ****** TE class, and hasn't really distinguished himself over TEs taken much later, even in that ******, ****** TE class. And there were 4 OTs taken within a round after Essex that have been miles better.

Anyways, that is all. Carry on. Or not.
 
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TMC said:
Here we go with the computer screen and armchair draft analysis **** again. Blah, blah, blah.

Again, **** like that is why I have posted here less and less. Again, you boys can have this ****. You cannot discuss the merits of a player without someone that watched a handful of highlights and read about a guy dragging up that ****.

Heard it all before. When someone posts something against a player you are in the middle of blowing, you have to drag it into this area. I am done. Archer is yours. Just make sure you secure the child carrier in your car when you take him home and, if the police get wind that you are tonsil deep on him, you may fall into the realm of Hank the Tank.

Done with this ****. Forget talking football around here, those days are dead.
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you know T, I respect your hard work on the draft and on sussing out the good from the bad....and in the past I've been one of the readers that's asked you to stick around thru yer critics hacking on ya....but this, especially the 1st line...

well....hope yer formula doesn't give ya the colic, dudema....

talk about overblown bullshit.

even allowing for the non-football things going on with ya.

cheers, buddy.
 
This discussion is losing steam...for now..but it aint dead because you know, throughout preseason and the regular season, this kids name will grace this forum PLENTYmore times.....hes the most polarizing pick since Timmons...Timmons is hated by many still......Jarvis drew a mixed reaction and some still hammer that pick today....

I hope this kid Archer pans out and contributes.....theres some here hoping he fails, because of their pride in wanting be right....the adrenaline flow that will ensue if he gets hit and doesnt get up...get your ****** templated responses ready...

Another thread will be created during camp and the season, no denying that...if you merged them with this thread, youd easily eclipse 100 pages
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
nobody wants him to fail.
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I disagree with that. It is human nature to want to be right. Other things, even the success of your team take a backseat to that.

I am a big Celtic fan. Years ago, when they hired Pitino, I wanted him to fail. I hate Pitino. It makes no damn sense, I know. It is not that I was rooting against them, it was just as they lost and he was trading guys and all that I would take great satisfaction in telling people "I told you."
 
Special teams doesn't mean much because the kickoff is five yards closer. Blah blah blah.... Yeah if you play in a dome. We play outside in the AFC North no domes there. When winter comes knocking late in the year. I can point to the 1996 packers with out getting Desmond howard (5'10" 180) they would of never won it all. All he did was punt and kick returns but had a Hugh impact on the end result. Momentum changes things if he can just break one every few games he will indeed be worth his 3rd comp pick value.
 
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