Ohio State/Oregon

[Punxsutawney]

Todd McShay on Mike&Mike today - "Cardale Jones, a raw version of Ben Roethlisberger"

yeah, I'd take him and dump Landry

Jamarcus Russell drew comparison to Roethlisberger too.

Not saying he'll be another Russell, as he looks like he could be great, but the sample size is really small, as impressive as it was.

 

[GRBman]

Just a few weeks ago, the media said Ohio State didn't belong in the playoff because the Big Ten was weak. Even after blowing out Wisconsin, you still had people saying OSU did not belong.


I must have missed the analysis that said Ohio state had more speed than Alabama. What I heard was Ohio State had no shot against an SEC team. Even after soundly beating Bama, I heard how Oregon might be too fast for Ohio State. Oregon was a TD favorite.


I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of the media coverage of college football over the last decade.


You SEC guys know it's been rigged. I'm not talking about rankIng Bama high. I'm talking about the titles Bama won somehow being applied to the rest of the SEC.


At some point a benefit of the doubt became hard and fast rules. It used to be people thought the SEC was the top conference so they'd give the 3rd best SEC team the nod over the 2nd best big ten or acc or whatever. No problem with that. That's a reasonable discussion.


But that morphed into the 5th best SEC team would win the Big Ten every year. Florida State would lose 4 games in the SEC. TCU is undeserving because of a weak non conference schedule but SEC teams don't have to play anybody out of conference because every team on an SEC schedule is an epic battle.


These bowl games are just one more game, and should not be taken as definitive proof. Some games are decisive. Ohio State decisively beat Bama. Nobody can reasonably say Bama is better than Ohio state. Wisconsin beat Auburn in a close one. USC beat Nebraska is a close one. Those games are not decisive. The only thing learned is those teams were evenly matched.


Over th last decade the Big Ten and SEC have played a bunch of bowl. The SEC margin is not as great as most would think. There have been quite a few very close games. The SEC has been better but that's not the argument. The argument is over the gap between than that has been blown way out of proportion largely by just looking at bowl results only.


I take no pride in Ohio State winning. My team didn't win anything yesterday (actually they kind of did win something else). In all this, I've only ever wanted teams to be evaluated individually. Ohio State winning should not mean that northwestern should get ranked preseason.


I think next year for the first time in a long time, we will get some honest rankings of individual teams and not just a blind slotting of teams based on conference affiliation.

It isn't rigged, Tape... the SEC EARNED That reputation. Teams (yes multiple ones) won 7 consecutive national championships. 4 different teams participated in that process (Florida, Alabama, LSU and Auburn). When you win on the biggest stage, have the most players drafted and pull in greater ratings than everyone else...then yeah, you're the monster. 20 years ago that was not the SEC...It is now. Just Deal with it.

No, the "Big 10" didn't win a national title...and the "SEC" didn't earn national titles in that run either. Florida (my team) doesn't get to claim championships that Alabama won...but we do get to take a little pride in the fact that one of our conference members did...why? Well, if you don't understand that yet, go back to 1865 and start over.

...and you're going to have to show me where "media" said Ohio State was slower that Alabama...or where the "media" said the Buckeyes had no chance. Alabama's defense has been flawed all season long and everybody knew that Urban Meyer is a better "big game" coach than Nick Saban...

...or Lane Kiffen.

...and I call bullshit on the part in bold. Nobody has said that the 5th place team would win other conferences...Nobody has said that FSU would lose 4 games in the SEC... and yes, SEC teams do play OOC teams...decent ones too... get off that bullshit dude. Do I need to make you a list? Oh, I know, you'll point to the various "cupcakes" in every schedule. As in Florida playing Idaho...fine...they also play FSU, on the road. Auburn played Kansas State...on the road... LSU played Wisconsin in Houston, Georgia played Clemson AND Georgia Tech...you might have heard of them. The only team in the SEC that did not play anyone of note OOC was Mississippi State...and by the end of the season the media were beginning to doubt their schedule as compared to TCU.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

You have to be a OSU fan to know why that isn't true - we fans lived through the era of Tressel Ball, where you get a lead, then put in the 2nd stringers. While the fans screamed to keep the foot on the pedal. And then they sometimes lost. He was a really good coach, but this drove me nuts.

Plus, let's just create a little fantasy here and say through some miracle, the Steelers were in the AFC Championship game vs. the Pats and they were in a similar situation, where Brady, Like Mariota could score in like 30 seconds. How many here would be screaming at Tomlin if he let off at that point.

I have not seen a group more demoralized, than Oregon, in a looong time. The defense wheezing, limping, the offense looking like zombies. They were just plain ***-whipped. I love it partially because it takes me back to a bygone era when the Steelers used to have their opponents in a similar situation.

Oregon had 2 TO left and it was 4th down. They jump offside and OSU gets a free first down. Clock is stopped and Oregon still has 2 TO. Ohio State runs on first down. I have no problem with that because Oregon has TO left. But then Oregon did not call a TO after the 1st down run. The clock is running and there's 30 seconds left and Oregon is not calling TO. That is when you take a knee.


It's just a peeve of mine in college when teams run it up. I don't care about Oregon. They probably deserve it with all the scores they run up. I think it's horseshit when these spread teams defend running up scores by saying "that's our offense." As if they don't have any simple run plays in the playbook.

 

[Idioteque]

Anyone who is offended by the other team scoring.. anyone who expects the team beating them to take it down five notches for the sake of their feelings.. football is not for you.

 

[Supersteeler]

Cannot believe how many people are ruffled and offended by Oregon scoring lots of points on their opponents. As though they're required by Man Law to take a knee in third quarters.

Football might not be for you.

I'm not ruffled as long as Oregon's fans don't complain when somebody stomps a mud hole in their team's *** on Nation TV. Turnabout is fair play.

 

[Supersteeler]

Anyone who is offended by the other team scoring.. anyone who expects the team beating them to take it down five notches for the sake of their feelings.. football is not for you.

I feel like you just said that one page ago.

 

[Spike]

Jamarcus Russell drew comparison to Roethlisberger too..

I'd take Cardale Jones over Landry Jones right now.

call me a dreamer

 

[Superman]

I'd take Quincy Jones over Landry Jones.

 

[Idioteque]

Just a few weeks ago, the media said Ohio State didn't belong in the playoff because the Big Ten was weak. Even after blowing out Wisconsin, you still had people saying OSU did not belong.

Well, there's a reason you heard stuff like that. The SEC has dominated the last decade, while the Big Ten has underwhelmed mightily.

I must have missed the analysis that said Ohio state had more speed than Alabama. What I heard was Ohio State had no shot against an SEC team. Even after soundly beating Bama, I heard how Oregon might be too fast for Ohio State. Oregon was a TD favorite.

Oregon is usually too fast for everyone, so that was a fair statement, no?

I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of the media coverage of college football over the last decade.

You SEC guys know it's been rigged. I'm not talking about rankIng Bama high. I'm talking about the titles Bama won somehow being applied to the rest of the SEC.

Bama is not the only SEC team to win a national title lately. Four teams have passed it around like a joint.

I take no pride in Ohio State winning. My team didn't win anything yesterday (actually they kind of did win something else). In all this, I've only ever wanted teams to be evaluated individually. Ohio State winning should not mean that northwestern should get ranked preseason.

That's quite a strawman.

 

[Southern Steeler]

I have no problem giving Ohio St. their props. That was a tremendous showing in the playoff. They earned it and won it convincingly.

If any of you northerners can't figure out how that is good for the Big 10 (and subsequently good for their own school) then I seriously question your intelligence. And no, it is not like rooting for the Ravens because they are in the AFCN.

 

[Ye Black Knight]

I think the point is that under the BCS rules the SEC always got the benefit of the doubt. Always. Hell, if this year we were still under the BCS it would've been Bama and Florida St. in the title game. So who is to say that in previous years that the BCS winner truly was the best team? Hopefully it gets expanded to 8 teams soon.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I think the point is that under the BCS rules the SEC always got the benefit of the doubt. Always. Hell, if this year we were still under the BCS it would've been Bama and Florida St. in the title game. So who is to say that in previous years that the BCS winner truly was the best team? Hopefully it gets expanded to 8 teams soon.

yep, point was pretty simple. It all started with benefit of the doubt in close games. Then it became a hard and fast rule where the SEC team gets a guaranteed slot because it is a pre determined fact that the SEC team is better.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I have no problem giving Ohio St. their props. That was a tremendous showing in the playoff. They earned it and won it convincingly.

If any of you northerners can't figure out how that is good for the Big 10 (and subsequently good for their own school) then I seriously question your intelligence. And no, it is not like rooting for the Ravens because they are in the AFCN.

We've had this discussion before. We northerners understand it. It's pretty simple. We just have no respect for it.

It's not the same as rooting for the ravens. Because the NFL has a playoff so polls are meaningless. Thank God these playoffs are now making the flawed polls less relevant. Just wait until it gets to 8 teams. The polls will be even less relevant. Can't wait.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Well, there's a reason you heard stuff like that. The SEC has dominated the last decade, while the Big Ten has underwhelmed mightily.



Oregon is usually too fast for everyone, so that was a fair statement, no?



Bama is not the only SEC team to win a national title lately. Four teams have passed it around like a joint.



That's quite a strawman.

Why was South Carolina ranked preseason when they returned nothing from last year? That was the basis for my Northwestern comment.

Bama, LSU, and AUburn have won recently. That explains why they get love from the polls. I've said numerous times it doesn;t bother me when those teams are ranked high. Why does that mean Miss State and Ole Miss get that same benefit? Everyone knew it would be a down year for LSU but that didn't stop them being ranked high.

That's is what i want to see come to an end. The ranking by association. Let's get back to watching teams play and ranking them individually.

 

[Idioteque]

Why was South Carolina ranked preseason when they returned nothing from last year? That was the basis for my Northwestern comment.

Bama, LSU, and AUburn have won recently. That explains why they get love from the polls. I've said numerous times it doesn;t bother me when those teams are ranked high. Why does that mean Miss State and Ole Miss get that same benefit? Everyone knew it would be a down year for LSU but that didn't stop them being ranked high.

Because some programs reload extraordinarily well on a talent basis. South Carolina, TA&M, Georgia, and Ole Miss scored top-20 recruiting classes - in addition to Tennessee and the teams who've won recently (Bama, LSU, Florida, Auburn - all top-9). They replace talent with talent; of course they'll get ranked high early in the season. Of course they'll stay ranked for several early weeks when their mega-talented teams beat Troy 65-7.

It happens to some degree for the Big 12, too, when mediocre OK and OK State and Baylor teams hover high in the rankings while their talent is putting up big wins. Makes sense to me, that early rankings reflect talented potential. This usually doesn't happen in the Big 10, where you see a lot of 20-16 Penn State-WIsconsin slugfests that disappoint watchers looking for potential.

That potential doesn't mean those teams are guaranteed success, that all the talent will coalesce and they'll win. Teams like A&M fall off and tough Big Ten teams like Mich St and WIsconsin nose up into prominence. But early rankings are based on talent and potential; they're not predictions of what might happen to/for that team. Then, the season wears on and SEC teams score key conference wins, and it all makes sense. And as overrated as you think the SEC is, you can't deny that late-season wins over Bama and Auburn and LSU carry more weight (as they should) than Ohio State beating Northwestern.

Regardless of what "everybody knew" about LSU in July, there's no denying they're a perenially mega-talented team that could come together and go 12-1 or better any given year; not the case for Nebraska and Northwestern. Miss and Ole Miss scored huge, impressive wins early in the season. Isn't that grounds to rise in the rankings? I don't know what method of ranking you're advocating that's not based on talented potential and crucial late-season wins over other talented programs.

That's is what i want to see come to an end. The ranking by association. Let's get back to watching teams play and ranking them individually.

OK, but as I said, you wouldn't see much difference in them. The SEC is still going to field the most talented and eye-catching games for at least the first 2/3 of the season, if not the whole year, while the other conferences yo-yo between respectability and joke status. Ohio State was MIA at the start of the season, then played only one team of note before December and lost their QB. Yet you're annoyed EVERYONE didn't see their dominance coming. As though anyone foresaw them besting Bama and Oregon with a backup QB.

 

[topseed]

Good game. Great team.

Congratulations to you and Ohio State.

Not looking forward to Penn State having to deal with two of the best college coaches in the land in their own division every single year. And the guy from MSU is no slouch, either.

 

[Stainless]

I'm looking forward to seeing what Harbaugh can do at Michigan. I wonder if we are on the verge of a power shift in college football.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Because some programs reload extraordinarily well on a talent basis. South Carolina, TA&M, Georgia, and Ole Miss scored top-20 recruiting classes - in addition to Tennessee and the teams who've won recently (Bama, LSU, Florida, Auburn - all top-9). They replace talent with talent; of course they'll get ranked high early in the season. Of course they'll stay ranked for several early weeks when their mega-talented teams beat Troy 65-7.

It happens to some degree for the Big 12, too, when mediocre OK and OK State and Baylor teams hover high in the rankings while their talent is putting up big wins. Makes sense to me, that early rankings reflect talented potential. This usually doesn't happen in the Big 10, where you see a lot of 20-16 Penn State-WIsconsin slugfests that disappoint watchers looking for potential.

What a load of crap. When has South Carolina, TA&M and Ole Miss "reloaded", like ever? I'll give you Alabama, Auburn, LSU...but not every flippin SEC team and that's Tape's point. Oh, and about those disappoint Big 10 slugfests looking for potential.....how did Ohio State's 17-17 tie with Penn State and needing double OT this year to pull it out end up? You would keep a team like OSU out of the playoffs because of a slugfest but then we find out how it plays on the field. My guess is you wouldn't have seen half the SEC Championships in the last 10 years if they were settled in a playoff format. That's disappointing!

 

[Stainless]

Since we are guessing, I'm going to guess that the Big Ten would not have participated in nearly as many championship games over the last 10 years had a playoff system been in place.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Congratulations to you and Ohio State.

Not looking forward to Penn State having to deal with two of the best college coaches in the land in their own division every single year. And the guy from MSU is no slouch, either.

Thank you.

I agree, if Harbaugh can recruit to tSUN, like he did at Stanford (which he will), the B1G is gonna be tough. It'll also be interesting to see if Chryst is a better coach at Wisc. than he was at Pitt and can't forget the job they're doing in Minn. (two 8 win seasons with the talent they had when they got there is pretty darn good). Throw in MSU (a tough/top program) and Nebraska,which I suspect will have at least slight rebound with Pellini gone.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Since we are guessing, I'm going to guess that the Big Ten would not have participated in nearly as many championship games over the last 10 years had a playoff system been in place.

Maybe but that's not the point. It's giving credit and crowning teams without winning it on the field. If we had the BCS system in the NFL, you would have seen the Patriots in the Super Bowl every year since 2001.

 

[Rod Farva]

Game was well officiated......hopefully this guy gets the call up to the NFL. It'd be awesome if he can make his announcements in a halting, deadpan manner as well and maybe make some of the ridiculous calls fans have to put up with a little less painful.

 

[Stainless]

Maybe but that's not the point. It's giving credit and crowning teams without winning it on the field. If we had the BCS system in the NFL, you would have seen the Patriots in the Super Bowl every year since 2001.

I'm not disagreeing that playoffs are a dramatic improvement over the BCS, but why limit your disappointment to what has happened over the last 10 years. Shouldn't your disappointment span the history of division I football?

 

[Idioteque]

What a load of crap. When has South Carolina, TA&M and Ole Miss "reloaded", like ever? I'll give you Alabama, Auburn, LSU...but not every flippin SEC team and that's Tape's point. Oh, and about those disappoint Big 10 slugfests looking for potential.....how did Ohio State's 17-17 tie with Penn State and needing double OT this year to pull it out end up? You would keep a team like OSU out of the playoffs because of a slugfest but then we find out how it plays on the field. My guess is you wouldn't have seen half the SEC Championships in the last 10 years if they were settled in a playoff format. That's disappointing!

As I said numerous times, I'm referring to early- and mid-season rankings. Tape complained about the way SEC teams are given the benefit of the doubt. Well of course they are in the early and middle portion of the seasons. They routinely crank out top-ranked recruiting classes and score a lot of big, attention-grabbing wins during those times. Should voters really bump Ohio State and Nebraska above them when they're beating Maryland and Illinois?

You really think that SEC teams have been unfairly put into title games? I can't see that; they won it on the field 7 consecutive seasons. Various SEC teams took on all comers in title games and won, usually convincingly. I don't see how you can complain about the way the SEC has been given these opportunities; they consistently justified it.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I'm not disagreeing that playoffs are a dramatic improvement over the BCS, but why limit your disappointment to what has happened over the last 10 years. Shouldn't your disappointment span the history of division I football?

Oh totally...I have always wanted playoffs. Being a Penn State fan I have no doubt the '94 12-0 team would have curb-stomped Nebraska but Osbourne needed to be handed his National Championship. PSU also had undefeated teams in '68, '69 and '73 that did not get an opportunity on the field for a chance to win. Heck, I'll go a step further an even say in '86 even though Penn State beat Miami for the NC, they might not have won if they had to play Oklahoma that year in the playoffs...but, I would still rather see it play out than have a vote.