Narratives

[diver]

Diversion

Nope. You won't answer it because you know the truth. Players play, making them more responsible. You cannot escape that basic truth. You can't get any less diversion.

This is important because the Steelers should make a coaching change. We agree on that. But they also have to take a hard look at the roster. Do they have good enough players? Do they have players committed enough? Do they have players who can make plays consistently in the most important moments? Are they evaluating talent well? To really compete for championships. I'm not sure they do.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Nope. You won't answer it because you know the truth. Players play, making them more responsible. You cannot escape that basic truth. You can't get any less diversion.

This is important because the Steelers should make a coaching change. We agree on that. But they also have to take a hard look at the roster. Do they have good enough players? Do they have players committed enough? Do they have players who can make plays consistently in the most important moments? Are they evaluating talent well? To really compete for championships. I'm not sure they do.

No he doesn’t play, dumb question-but hey it’s you…

So they would have won 11 more games with the previous coach or just any dude off the street?

You’re so pathetic, you’ve been owned in the argument so badly, anyone can see it

 

[slashsteel]

Nope. You won't answer it because you know the truth. Players play, making them more responsible. You cannot escape that basic truth. You can't get any less diversion.

This is important because the Steelers should make a coaching change. We agree on that. But they also have to take a hard look at the roster. Do they have good enough players? Do they have players committed enough? Do they have players who can make plays consistently in the most important moments? Are they evaluating talent well? To really compete for championships. I'm not sure they do.

New coaches evaluate their roster and make necessary changes. Not uncommon or unexpected. It Is the head coach’s job to get their players in the right positions & to get the most out of them. You know besides making the right roster choices to begin with.

Then having the ability to tweak whatever needs tweaking in game. Attack a team’s weaknesses and adjust as the game goes on. If it means switching a player out do that, running a different formation do that.

We can’t expect them to always be successful but we can expect to not see the same repetitive failures for a decade…

 

[SteelerFan448]

It does. Detroit also had injuries all over the roster. did that have anything to do with it?

So did the 49ers, Bills, Steelers, Chargers, and Packers.

 

[diver]

New coaches evaluate their roster and make necessary changes. Not uncommon or unexpected. It Is the head coach’s job to get their players in the right positions & to get the most out of them. You know besides making the right roster choices to begin with.

Then having the ability to tweak whatever needs tweaking in game. Attack a team’s weaknesses and adjust as the game goes on. If it means switching a player out do that, running a different formation do that.

We can’t expect them to always be successful but we can expect to not see the same repetitive failures for a decade…

I agree. I keep saying Tomlin needs to go. This is not support of Tomlin. But all that said, who has to implement these things on the field?

 

[diver]

No he doesn’t play, dumb question-but hey it’s you…

So they would have won 11 more games with the previous coach or just any dude off the street?

You’re so pathetic, you’ve been owned in the argument so badly, anyone can see it

No, it's the first question. The thing is that acknowledging the truth that players are more responsible allows me to be consistent. You are not. If anyone gives credit to Tomlin for the success he had his first years in Pittsburgh it's always the same thing. He inherited great players. I agree! When I think of those teams I think of Ben, Troy, Hines, Harrison and so on. Tomlin is way down on that list. But you make that argument while refusing to acknowledge he doesn't have those same type of big moment players now. It wasn't coaching then, it was the players, but it's all coaching now. The hypocrisy of it.

You can say I'm owned all you want, that doesn't make it true. But it doesn't matter. It is irrelevant.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

No, it's the first question. The thing is that acknowledging the truth that players are more responsible allows me to be consistent. You are not. If anyone gives credit to Tomlin for the success he had his first years in Pittsburgh it's always the same thing. He inherited great players. I agree! When I think of those teams I think of Ben, Troy, Hines, Harrison and so on. Tomlin is way down on that list. But you make that argument while refusing to acknowledge he doesn't have those same type of big moment players now. It wasn't coaching then, it was the players, but it's all coaching now. The hypocrisy of it.

You can say I'm owned all you want, that doesn't make it true. But it doesn't matter. It is irrelevant.

Now who isn’t answering the question, it’s just impossible for you to admit you’re wrong it’s hilarious

This whole thread, started by you because you’re butt hurt, shows how pathetic your arguments are

 

[diver]

Now who isn’t answering the question, it’s just impossible for you to admit you’re wrong it’s hilarious

This whole thread, started by you because you’re butt hurt, shows how pathetic your arguments are

Nope. I've been wrong about plenty of things. Not this.

Again, I find it odd your assertions. Why would I be butt hurt on a message board? I know none of you. Due to that, I am indifferent as to what anyone thinks of me. It makes no sense.

Have a good night. Enjoy the game.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Nope. I've been wrong about plenty of things. Not this.

Again, I find it odd your assertions. Why would I be butt hurt on a message board? I know none of you. Due to that, I am indifferent as to what anyone thinks of me. It makes no sense.

Have a good night. Enjoy the game.

You made the thread because you’re upset about how you’re viewed here, it’s in your first three sentences in the first post plain as day, one person defended you, the rest of the thread is people deconstructing your garbage and you trying to justify yourself

Just go back and look

Sleep tight professor

 

[Aussie_Steeler]

So they would have won 11 more games with the previous coach or just any dude off the street?

Or with no coaches at all apparently.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Nope. You won't answer it because you know the truth. Players play, making them more responsible. You cannot escape that basic truth. You can't get any less diversion.

This is important because the Steelers should make a coaching change. We agree on that. But they also have to take a hard look at the roster. Do they have good enough players? Do they have players committed enough? Do they have players who can make plays consistently in the most important moments? Are they evaluating talent well? To really compete for championships. I'm not sure they do.

kurt cignetti (sp) has all the best players in the country..

Indiana would be going to the natty even if he wasnt there.

 

[WindyCitySteel]

Why don't you answer the question? Does Coen play?

No, he just got the same players to play better. Are you saying any coach could have gone 10-7 with this Steeler roster?

 

[bermudasteel]

It’s so hilarious when you divert when you’ve lost an argument.

Let’s try again: the Jaguars go from 3-14 to to 14-3, in 1 year with a new coaching staff…to use your words: who is most or “more responsible” for that?

I see what you're both saying and there is logic on both sides.

The Jags got better, IMO, because of the new regime and the players bought in and they're performing.

Kiss and make up...

 

[bermudasteel]

New coaches evaluate their roster and make necessary changes. Not uncommon or unexpected. It Is the head coach’s job to get their players in the right positions & to get the most out of them. You know besides making the right roster choices to begin with.

Then having the ability to tweak whatever needs0 tweaking in game. Attack a team’s weaknesses and adjust as the game goes on. If it means switching a player out do that, running a different formation do that.

We can’t expect them to always be successful but we can expect to not see the same repetitive failures for a decade…

I have a question...

Do anyone think that, as a coach, you can use the whole playbook on both sides of the ball, to make in game adjustments, week in and week out???

Thoughts?

 

[slashsteel]

I have a question...

Do anyone think that, as a coach, you can use the whole playbook on both sides of the ball, to make in game adjustments, week in and week out???

Thoughts?

Not exactly sure what you are asking Berm. Are you asking if a head coach has the ability to make in game adjustments on both sides of the ball?

Are you asking if their scheme limits what they can do in game?

Or their playbook does it limit what they can do in game?

Without knowing yet exactly what you are asking I will say this. Nothing is locked in, they do not have to keep anything within the scheme or playbook in the beginning preparation of the week. They can adjust at any given time what they wish their approach to be… you obviously only desire small tweaks the bigger ones should be installed in the beginning of training camp.

Obviously you have to teach and practice scenarios during your practice week.

The coaches will be limited to what they have taught their players.

In game you can adjust formations and playcalling and pre game and in game you can discuss tendencies.

A head coach at any given moment can say to a coordinator this isn’t working let us do this. If he is proficient at knowing X and Os that can be a great help. If not the coordinators that he chooses should be highly proficient in this area.

A coordinator is limited to what approach they are instructed to use, scheme is at their disposal.

A HC is limited to what he has taught their players.

When you look at the GB Bears game you see some things. Good half time adjustments. A HC proficient at X and Os. Evidence by Detroit not making the playoffs and Chicago making the playoffs fresh off the change. And winning their playoff game.

They all had access to their playbooks and work within those constraints. The HCs either specialize in X and Os or brought in someone who they think specializes in it.

If there is an element that is deficient the HC needs to be able to identify it in the offseason, training camp, in season, in game.

They can change formations, players, even coaches.

Teams go through changes because either the GM and or HC is deficient in one area enough that it is holding a team back from accomplishing their goals.


If I didn’t cover what you are asking let me know of course I will try to answer or simply tell you I don’t know.

 

[slashsteel]

When I was examining the playoff teams I came across this.

Ranked Summary (Best to Worst vs Winning Teams)

1. Jaguars – .625
2. Texans – .500
3. 49ers – .500
4. Bills – .500
5. Patriots – .500
6. Steelers – .167

This statistic is very interesting and I am curious what it means for fans…

 

[DesertSteel]

Then put your energy towards taking about than calling people haters-since you’ve got nothing to back up that statement

Your sentence makes no sense. And what am I supposed to be backing up?

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The first narrative is fueled by a HC that definitively limits player effectiveness through constant usage of predictable, antiquated and ineffective schemes. The coach literally puts guys in position to fail. Call that a “narrative” if you want, I’d call it a primary contributor to player failures.

And PFF blows, and it blows…then it blows some more.
Using PFF stats to support any argument shows a clear sign of struggling to make a valid point…because PFF stats blow. They’re ridiculous when at their best and flat out mind numbingly moronic when at their worst

Effing PFF

 

[Steelr4evr]

When I was examining the playoff teams I came across this.

Ranked Summary (Best to Worst vs Winning Teams)

1. Jaguars – .625
2. Texans – .500
3. 49ers – .500
4. Bills – .500
5. Patriots – .500
6. Steelers – .167

This statistic is very interesting and I am curious what it means for fans…

Hmmmm. Let me see,which one of these teams doesn't belong in this group? It's hard,but I'm going to go with .167.


The odds are not in favor of .167 making it through that list without some divine intervention.

The entire team and staff will have to elevate to a level they haven't been at in well over a decade.

 

[stillwright]

Noll was ready, life issues caused Cowher to walk or I think he wins at least a couple more with Ben. He would have kept the good coaches and coordinators.

Or simply have gotten new ones. Finding them never seemed to be an issue with Coach Bill.

 

[bigben]

Lots of good coaches have picked QBs that sucked. Tomlin haters can never even acknowledge anything positive. That's what discredits them. They can't even have a reasonable conversation with other fans who also want Tomlin gone.

I just call balls and strikes. Pickett, Trubisky, Fields, Wilson. None of those guys will ever be starters again in the nfl.

I give Tomlin credit for getting Rodgers.
It saved is season, his streak and his job. For now anyway.

Qb is not easy to find for any team and Tomlin has drafted some of the best guys to ever wear black and gold. He deserves credit for that.
He also deserves criticism for never winning anything with the guys he drafted as great as they were.

 

[bigben]

Lots of teams are using jumbo packages. It seems that is how a number of teams successfully run the ball. I heard something a few years ago and I wish I could remember who was saying it. It was someone who was in NFL scouting at one point. Anyway, he talked about for some reason today the best big athletic players are playing defensive line instead of offensive line. If that's the case we may see a lot more jumbo packages all over the league so the lesser athletes on the offensive line can be successful.

Rodgers being 42 with a banged up wrist also contributed to the quick release.

Agreed. But
A great O-line can run out of multiple formations to keep defenses guessing.
Pittsburgh is incapable of that and has been for years.

 

[slashsteel]

The first narrative is fueled by a HC that definitively limits player effectiveness through constant usage of predictable, antiquated and ineffective schemes. The coach literally puts guys in position to fail. Call that a “narrative” if you want, I’d call it a primary contributor to player failures.

And PFF blows, and it blows…then it blows some more.
Using PFF stats to support any argument shows a clear sign of struggling to make a valid point…because PFF stats blow. They’re ridiculous when at their best and flat out mind numbingly moronic when at their worst

Effing PFF

In regards to PFF a fan might think well like that is just your opinion man.

But let me expand on why that is a good opinion, man.

They have no idea if the scheme is helping or hindering the player. They aren’t factoring in level of competition. They have no idea who is assigned what player or what gap.

Why do solid performers or underperforming players change teams and flip script? Did their play simply fall off or play simply improved? Maybe or maybe scheme and supporting positions helped or hindered them.

…maybe that scheme was tailor made to their skill set and masked their deficiencies maybe it exploited their weaknesses.

Or maybe the level of suck hinders their confidence or their overall level of play make them feel they only need to be a supporting player not a superstar.

Was that player off the bench or being played an excessive amount of snaps?

Did their coach look like he sunglasses belonged on the beach instead of X and O-ing his way to victory ?

Did their corner make INTs because they threw at him often? Giving him a higher amount of PD’s?

Did a LBer tackle 4 to 5 yards off the ball?

Was their strength statistically noticeable but their weakness causing drives to stay alive or fail?

PFF yeah just not a great tool of measurement…

 

[WindyCitySteel]

Nope. You won't answer it because you know the truth. Players play, making them more responsible. You cannot escape that basic truth. You can't get any less diversion.

This is important because the Steelers should make a coaching change. We agree on that. But they also have to take a hard look at the roster. Do they have good enough players? Do they have players committed enough? Do they have players who can make plays consistently in the most important moments? Are they evaluating talent well? To really compete for championships. I'm not sure they do.

Of course they need better talent, another reason to get rid of MT. He isn't the victim of this roster, he's the architect.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Your sentence makes no sense. And what am I supposed to be backing up?

If you’re going to reference Tomlin “haters” in your post then obviously you’ve got proof a lot of us say we “hate” the man.

Otherwise it’s lazy and dumb argument