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Judgement Day "Shady Brady" vs. Roger - OFFICIAL THREAD
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I don't know anymore.
When the Wells Report first came out I thought the science was shoddy (has been from the beginning), but the text messages and circumstantial evidence of the ball boys was very damning.
But now I know more. I know that (somehow without the referees knowing anything), that the Patriots played a game against the Jets with a ball inflated to 16 psi. That's impossibly out of specifications. And I can completely understand how Brady would go absolutely ballistic over that with the equipment managers. And I can completely understand how they might talk about Brady's tantrum between themselves in an unprofessional way.
I just don't see it as you guys do. I don't think Brady has any reason to get involved with psi or ball inflation like this or open himself up to culpability. He yelled at the guys about the Jets game and they over-reacted and made sure (among themselves) that they would take care to make sure Tom Brady liked the balls from that point forward.
To this day, I don't see the conspiracy theory you guys have put forward that Belichick and Brady have been directing balls be under inflated to help with fumbles or performance of anything close to that. I see a decision to inflate balls on the low end of allowable (which is completely legal) which happened AFTER the Jets game and fiasco of 16 psi and give them to the referees in that fashion.
I just don't see the evidence that connects Brady to the decision (if any was made) to further tamper with balls to lower the pressure below 12.5. None at all.
I've said from the beginning if there is proof balls were tampered with after the referee's review, that is on the organization. And I think they have been punished. But I don't see the Brady connection yet. And now we're getting into his cooperation with a farcical "independent" investigator (Ted Wells) that the more and more evidence that comes to light looks like a buffoon and anything but independent.
He was directed by his union officer NOT to cooperate (with his phone records) partly because of the precedent it would set for every other invasive sham investigation brought by the NFL. He was told not giving his phone would not be the basis of punishment (a flat out lie). A lot of Brady's actions during the investigation where not his to make, but a result of the bigger picture between the rights of the players vs. the rights of the league. Not just about this investigation.
Goodell has a hard on about that one point and he's (in my opinion) unjustly brought the hammer down. I'm not sure that holds up in court.
When the Wells Report first came out I thought the science was shoddy (has been from the beginning), but the text messages and circumstantial evidence of the ball boys was very damning.
But now I know more. I know that (somehow without the referees knowing anything), that the Patriots played a game against the Jets with a ball inflated to 16 psi. That's impossibly out of specifications. And I can completely understand how Brady would go absolutely ballistic over that with the equipment managers. And I can completely understand how they might talk about Brady's tantrum between themselves in an unprofessional way.
I just don't see it as you guys do. I don't think Brady has any reason to get involved with psi or ball inflation like this or open himself up to culpability. He yelled at the guys about the Jets game and they over-reacted and made sure (among themselves) that they would take care to make sure Tom Brady liked the balls from that point forward.
To this day, I don't see the conspiracy theory you guys have put forward that Belichick and Brady have been directing balls be under inflated to help with fumbles or performance of anything close to that. I see a decision to inflate balls on the low end of allowable (which is completely legal) which happened AFTER the Jets game and fiasco of 16 psi and give them to the referees in that fashion.
I just don't see the evidence that connects Brady to the decision (if any was made) to further tamper with balls to lower the pressure below 12.5. None at all.
I've said from the beginning if there is proof balls were tampered with after the referee's review, that is on the organization. And I think they have been punished. But I don't see the Brady connection yet. And now we're getting into his cooperation with a farcical "independent" investigator (Ted Wells) that the more and more evidence that comes to light looks like a buffoon and anything but independent.
He was directed by his union officer NOT to cooperate (with his phone records) partly because of the precedent it would set for every other invasive sham investigation brought by the NFL. He was told not giving his phone would not be the basis of punishment (a flat out lie). A lot of Brady's actions during the investigation where not his to make, but a result of the bigger picture between the rights of the players vs. the rights of the league. Not just about this investigation.
Goodell has a hard on about that one point and he's (in my opinion) unjustly brought the hammer down. I'm not sure that holds up in court.
Again, it's circumstantial evidence (so far) but considering that the Pats** play at least half their games outdoors in the northeast, their rates for fumbles, incomplete and complete passing, and interceptions in bad weather games are so far outside the statistical norms that it defies description.
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Brady in 2006 on the rule he helped change in regards to preparing footballs:
Brady at his appeal hearing:
Can we please stop with this notion that Brady has no ******* clue about air pressure in a ball? How long has he been playing QB? 20, 25 years? Hell, when we were kids in the back yard and picked a ball up, one of the first things we said would be, "This ball is flat" or "The ball is too ******* hard." And the only time we didn't was when Johnny brought over a Nerf. And I'm supposed to believe that Tom's ******* clueless on this, Mr. Attention to detail? Come the **** on.
Brady at his appeal hearing:
Can we please stop with this notion that Brady has no ******* clue about air pressure in a ball? How long has he been playing QB? 20, 25 years? Hell, when we were kids in the back yard and picked a ball up, one of the first things we said would be, "This ball is flat" or "The ball is too ******* hard." And the only time we didn't was when Johnny brought over a Nerf. And I'm supposed to believe that Tom's ******* clueless on this, Mr. Attention to detail? Come the **** on.
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That's not true at all. He destroyed his phone. He did so purposefully and within 24 to 36 hours of his scheduled interview with Wells. That is ABSOLUTELY circumstantial evidence.
There were several messages between Br*dy and Jastremski immediately following the AFC championship game. There were virtually NO records of any contact taking place between them before that. That is ALSO circumstantial evidence.
People MUST stop looking at this as an investigation about the deflated footballs. This is entirely about the coverup. Br*dy was suspended because of his efforts to obfuscate and hide the truth. It's that simple. The P*ts et. al want to focus on the balls and they desperately want to divert attention away from the fact that T*m Br*dy did everything in his power to divert attention away from the fact that he was asked to provide information about contact he made with either Jastremski or other parties about the scandal and he resolutely refused to cooperate. And furthermore, he destroyed his phone and sim-card thus ensuring that it would be extraordinarily difficult to obtain the necessary information.
Nixon lost a Presidency in much the same way. Is that conspiracy enough for you? The P*ts have been getting away with this **** for YEARS and they just stole another SB. Goodell finally grew a pair and said "Enough of this ****, you'll stop now and deal with some consequences." The P*ts failed to believe he was serious about it. He even gave them a relatively easy out. a ******* 4 game suspension is a slap on the wrist and basically was a very polite way of saying "Knock it the **** off!"
What does Kr*ft and Br*dy do? They actually have the balls to appeal and try to fight it. They know Goodell can't afford to rip the lid off of SpyGate and the other **** the P*ts have done because it would ruin the league so they're going to play the ***** card and take Goodell down just to save face for Br*dy and keep him from looking like the cheating ***** he is. But guess what... HE DESTROYED HIS ******* PHONE YOU RETARDS!
Nobody with half a ******* brain is looking at that and saying, gosh, I guess THAT makes sense. Everyone ******* knows EXACTLY what that means. It means he had calls to Coach B. to the "Deflator", to Kr*ft and probably to Giselle asking what the **** he should do. When Wells told him he wanted to see all relevant info, Br*dy panicked like a ***** and DESTROYED HIS ******* PHONE.
Nixon erased 18 minutes of recording. How'd that work out for him and his people? This whole thing is an epic clown-****.
The leaks that were the problem were the ones that let the air out of the balls, not the ones to the press.
Its more than just that... The story keeps changing for Brady... in his testimony he now claims that he was instructed by his lawyers to decline to turn over the Phone messages... the lawyers end up turning over a phone log of whom he called and texted, but not that actual messages or content. The phone is destroyed. He testifies that he routinely does this, but his two previous phones are not destroyed and he destroys that phone immediately after getting the request for data... its like Wells says, he went into it expecting more cooperation, but when he saw the level of un-cooperation, he concluded that they were not being open or honest.
The lawyer is clearly playing this to try to discredit the science in the public's eye, which if you read the whole thing, you see that there is one scenario where the numbers play out in the Pats favor, and they are using experts to focus on this very narrow possibility. That would maybe work if they were trying to throw him in jail, but there is more than enough to nail them on deflating the balls... focus on the last witness, how they are trying to interject that the additional data that they tested and excluded made the deflation all the more obvious, but they didn't want to include it because it was more biased and questionable... Wells investigation, The testing firm, and the statistician all went out of their way to not interject bias... and the lawyer questing them was doing his best to shade all of them in a negative light.
I will hand it to Goodell, several times he interjected to allow a witness to finish an important thought that the lawyer was trying to cut short and manipulate the meaning of what they said.
Its hundreds of pages even without the concordance at the end... its not an easy read especially since its a bit out of order in that file, but if you read it you get the clear picture that Brady was perpetrating a cover up of some sort and that the ball boy absolutely broke protocol with the balls.
Regardless, the court is only going to consider whether the CBA was followed. a lot of Pat fans are going to be sad when they do not rule on the fairness of the case.. He is still going to play game 1 though... that lawyer is far too slick to not at least get it drawn out once, even if it is on appeal
The lawyer is clearly playing this to try to discredit the science in the public's eye, which if you read the whole thing, you see that there is one scenario where the numbers play out in the Pats favor, and they are using experts to focus on this very narrow possibility. That would maybe work if they were trying to throw him in jail, but there is more than enough to nail them on deflating the balls... focus on the last witness, how they are trying to interject that the additional data that they tested and excluded made the deflation all the more obvious, but they didn't want to include it because it was more biased and questionable... Wells investigation, The testing firm, and the statistician all went out of their way to not interject bias... and the lawyer questing them was doing his best to shade all of them in a negative light.
I will hand it to Goodell, several times he interjected to allow a witness to finish an important thought that the lawyer was trying to cut short and manipulate the meaning of what they said.
Its hundreds of pages even without the concordance at the end... its not an easy read especially since its a bit out of order in that file, but if you read it you get the clear picture that Brady was perpetrating a cover up of some sort and that the ball boy absolutely broke protocol with the balls.
Regardless, the court is only going to consider whether the CBA was followed. a lot of Pat fans are going to be sad when they do not rule on the fairness of the case.. He is still going to play game 1 though... that lawyer is far too slick to not at least get it drawn out once, even if it is on appeal
Interesting that you have decided to pick and choose the text messages you wish to consider truthful. Your quote of 16 pounds comes from the following passage from a man not under oath and talking to a woman known as Panda. IT does not say 16 lbs. It says like 16 pounds and he measured them he says. Evidence is here say and not proven. In fact it is the word of an individual that was terminated for tampering with the balls. Nothing indicates his method for determining the air pressure is accurate at all.
06/25/2015 03:43:11 PM
Page 62 to 65 of 457
20 of 172 sheets
DIRECT/BRADY/KESSLER
Page 62
looking at them now.
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Take a look at in the Wells report, which is
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NFLPA Exhibit 7. I'm sure it has an NFL number as
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well. And take a look at page 86 of the Wells
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report.
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COMMISSIONER GOODELL: Is this it?
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MR. LEVY: Yes.
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MR. KESSLER: Do you have it, Commissioner?
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COMMISSIONER GOODELL: Yes.
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So the Jets game we are talking about was
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Q.
October 16th. You will see these are a pair of
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e-mails from Mr. Jastremski to Panda that are
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October 17th. You will see that's the day after the
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Jets game, just to give context to everyone.
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By the way, I will represent to you because
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it says in Mr. Wells' report that Panda is
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Mr
. Jastremski's fiancé, so that we know who he's
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communicating with is his fiancé, the day after the
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Jets game, okay?
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And you will see what he writes is,
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"Ugh...Tom was right."
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Do you see that? And then it goes, "I just
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measured some of the balls. They are supposed to be
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13. They were, like, 16, felt like bricks."
You don't see it because you don't want to. Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and Helen Keller can see it.
Seriously, I read the entire thing... I am amazed at the Patfan reaction... I am assuming they either didn't read it or are chuckleheaded imbecilic fools. The pats troll media spin on it isn't what the transcript says. Its pretty straightforward. He isn't going to win this case.
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Who ever thinks t*mmy b*y is telling the truth, NEEDs their head examined. Either their comprehension level is so low, or they are a surface Cheatriot fan. I say surface because a "deep" fan should be able to determine the out right lying. When Rothlesbugher was going through his deal, I was able to admit possible wrong. I have yet to hear one single p*ts fan, acknowledge wrong doing. There is SO MUCH EVIDENCE, to show t*mmy b*y is covering / lying . The actual deflated balls are NOT even the worry right now, its the cover up, lying, that is so concerning. HOW much has been going on, why the OVERKILL on hiding a few deflated footballs????? Because there is so MUCH more, in depth cheating going on. Lewtting the BIG cat out of the bag is whats causing this. Quicksand, keep sinking and sinking and sinking.................billicheat LIFETIME ban, kr*ft forced to sell, t*mmy b*y LIFETIME ban are just a few things if the BIG cat is let lose................................... I can on ly hope the entire truth comes out. **** the down fall of the current nfl, lets go all in on the exposing the entire cheatriot operation. Hey ernie, got time for a few depositions.......? Supeana anyone????? ******** cheatriots
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I'm watching the evolving discussions about the potential arbitration and it just makes me sick. Every bit of this is about the P*ts history of cheating. They've been caught again and YES, they've been hit with a big ******* stick. The problem is Kraft and T*m are too ******* stupid to recognize what's going on. They didn't get the message the last time they were allowed to skate and they continued cheating and now they're getting their ***** beaten.
They're like the teenage girl who sued her parents for the college money they saved up for her. She decided she didn't want to go to college but wanted the money anyway. So she ******* sues and some nutjob judge says "Yep, you gotta give her the money." She blows through it snorting coke and giving blowjobs, then goes back to her parents and says, "You know what? I think I'd like to go to college now. Pay for it!" Sure enough, Nutjob Judge says "Ya, you have to provide her an education so she can succeed.
So she forces her parents to take out a loan so she can go to a college of her choosing. She drops out after a couple semesters with a bun in the oven and leaves them the bill. She undoubtedly wonders why it's strained at Thanksgiving...
******* P*ts. Honestly, who do they think they are? Really, I mean it. Who the **** do they think they are that they can do whatever they want and just get away with it? Do they seriously think the rules simply don't apply to them? Perhaps for a few games, they simply shouldn't. Perhaps the referees should be instructed to lose their whistles until Tom Brady is down on the ground on every P*ts offensive snap until he can't get up again. T*m throws the ball and 6 seconds later a linebacker nails him from behind. No whistle, no flag. Ref was looking downfield by then. BUT he DID see the offensive lineman shove the defensive player who was helping T*m up. That's an unsportsmanlike right there. 15 yards.
The commissioner would do something about it, but you know, he doesn't have punitive powers as it seems.
They're like the teenage girl who sued her parents for the college money they saved up for her. She decided she didn't want to go to college but wanted the money anyway. So she ******* sues and some nutjob judge says "Yep, you gotta give her the money." She blows through it snorting coke and giving blowjobs, then goes back to her parents and says, "You know what? I think I'd like to go to college now. Pay for it!" Sure enough, Nutjob Judge says "Ya, you have to provide her an education so she can succeed.
So she forces her parents to take out a loan so she can go to a college of her choosing. She drops out after a couple semesters with a bun in the oven and leaves them the bill. She undoubtedly wonders why it's strained at Thanksgiving...
******* P*ts. Honestly, who do they think they are? Really, I mean it. Who the **** do they think they are that they can do whatever they want and just get away with it? Do they seriously think the rules simply don't apply to them? Perhaps for a few games, they simply shouldn't. Perhaps the referees should be instructed to lose their whistles until Tom Brady is down on the ground on every P*ts offensive snap until he can't get up again. T*m throws the ball and 6 seconds later a linebacker nails him from behind. No whistle, no flag. Ref was looking downfield by then. BUT he DID see the offensive lineman shove the defensive player who was helping T*m up. That's an unsportsmanlike right there. 15 yards.
The commissioner would do something about it, but you know, he doesn't have punitive powers as it seems.
I can only suspect that you want to believe what you want to believe. This statement is utterly silly denial.
Every QB since Otto Graham (hell, before), has been fanatical about the footballs. There isn't a QB that has EVER played the game that didn't pay great attention to the details of the balls. There isn't a QB that's played in the NFL that didn't know the ball boys. Every QB-analyst has stated this ad nausea. It is "impossible" that Brady didn't know the ball boys, didn't control the condition of the balls going into the games. Every QB EVER is a fanatic about the balls.
Until now. People like you and millions in NE now believe there is one QB different than all the others. One Tom Brady. The only QB ever to not give a **** about the footballs. The 'greatest QB in history' didn't know the ball boys by name, never asked the balls to be manipulated his way.
Yeah.
whats funnier is brady did state years ago that he cared very much about the footballs so its comical for guys like del to have the belief he doesI can only suspect that you want to believe what you want to believe. This statement is utterly silly denial.
Every QB since Otto Graham (hell, before), has been fanatical about the footballs. There isn't a QB that has EVER played the game that didn't pay great attention to the details of the balls. There isn't a QB that's played in the NFL that didn't know the ball boys. Every QB-analyst has stated this ad nausea. It is "impossible" that Brady didn't know the ball boys, didn't control the condition of the balls going into the games. Every QB EVER is a fanatic about the balls.
Until now. People like you and millions in NE now believe there is one QB different than all the others. One Tom Brady. The only QB ever to not give a **** about the footballs. The 'greatest QB in history' didn't know the ball boys by name, never asked the balls to be manipulated his way.
Yeah.
Especially when you look at who wanted to have the rule changed so they could cheat.....I mean break in the balls.
Whoever was doing the drawings in court today obviously does not like Brady. I hope the guy who does his HOF bust portrays him just like this
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Those exact thoughts were going through my head as I read the comments !! He and Payton lead the fight in 2006 - and he definitely cared about the footballs them !!
so is the NFL, all on the up and up?
p*t* always cheat. I don't care. Would rather beat them at full strength
but, will the NFL allow them to lose to us? Will they allow them to not make it to the AFC title game? These stories and more as SOAP continues.
p*t* always cheat. I don't care. Would rather beat them at full strength
but, will the NFL allow them to lose to us? Will they allow them to not make it to the AFC title game? These stories and more as SOAP continues.
Tough call. I still think it will be *cough* "under appeal" *cough* for the opener so Brady* can play and beat us. No doubt Rog is pissed that he cut the Pats** slack once and they cheated again but I still think he dislikes the Steelers more. He'll be suspended against the Bills and Jags where they can win without him.
Hell no. After Spygate they went 15-1 and ran the score up every chance they had just to be spiteful. Belicheat will do it again.
Soap karma.
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Just read that t*mmy boy and geisele may be divorcing. It's the newest rumor on break upos out there. (no link, sorry)
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Didn't he also grill Brady's attorney about Brady destroying the cell phone. Seems like he's planning on ripping a couple of ******** before this is all done.
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you've been at the supermarket again, eh?
"Kessler claimed that the quarterback got rid of the phone on the advice of his agent to protect his privacy"... Ok, except under oath didn't he say he did it routinely and not to destroy evidence? so is this a lie? Under oath? .. Blah blah balh... more spin... the Judge grilled both sides... ESPN is making it sound like he focused on the NFL
Actually, the only thing that was "appealed" to the court was whether or not the NFL was "allowed" to take the actions that they took under the terms of the CBA. Therefore, there should be no discussion of burden of proof or evidence as it relates to guilt or innocence. Just a standard interpretation of the terms of the contract and whether or not those terms are valid and were applied in this case in the manner proscribed in the contract.
But hey, what's wrong with a little red herring like "burden of proof" and "evidence".