Is Cam the new prototype QB?

[Sarge]

I don't know if Cam Newton is the new protoypical QB, but I know he is rapidly becoming the latest way to tell white people they are racist. Too many articles on the subject to conclude anything else. If you don't like Cam, or don't think he is great, it is obviously because he is black. Christ, it gets old.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I really don't understand this complaint: A guy wrecks defensive coverage by moving around, forcing defenses to keep things simple, and that's a BAD thing?

It makes no damn sense at all. You win by any and all means necessary. It would be like you saying that Ben is overrated as a passer because defenders can't trust their eyes because of his pump fakes, so they play safe and give up the short stuff. How is that a knock on Ben's ability? Seems to me it just makes him a MORE EFFECTIVE offensive player. As does Cam's ability to move the pocket and challenge defenses on the ground.

You run complex coverage against a guy like Brady because ALL THE RULES ARE BENT IN HIS FAVOR and because he has no athletic talent HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE BUT THROW. If the rules were fair, all these pure "pocket passers" you revere so much would be run out of the league inside of one season.

where did a say Cam wasn't effective? I said he's overrated as a passer. That's one aspect of his game. You misunderstood everything i wrote.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I don't know if Cam Newton is the new protoypical QB, but I know he is rapidly becoming the latest way to tell white people they are racist. Too many articles on the subject to conclude anything else. If you don't like Cam, or don't think he is great, it is obviously because he is black. Christ, it gets old.

I haven't read one such article. Of course, that's probably because they are easily spotted by their headlines and I choose not to read them. Just as I am able to choose not to read the plethora of articles about how the greatness of Peyton Manning should be rewarded with another Super Bowl win. If I did choose to read any of these articles, got tired of reading the same thing over and over, yet continued to read them, I guess I'd have no one but myself to blame if I felt they were repetitive, offensive and old.

You too have the power of choice.

 

[Omar10213245]

He's 26. Do you think he can take those hits when he's 30 or 32?

Is he going to break brett favre's games-started streak? No, probably not. That said, if you ask me if I think he'll he a brittle robert griffin-like runner in his early 30's, I'll also say "no, probably not"

 

[Coryea]

I hear ya. I miss Barry Sanders. Guy probably has the largest amount of spectacular plays in the history of the NFL. Treated every TD the same, just handed the ball to the ref.

My favorite player that wasn't a Steeler. Why does everyone keep saying Cam is like no other that came before him? This is his first season that he's had a QB rating over 88, he still has a sub 59% completion% Can we let him put a couple good seasons together before we start crowning him the best QB in the NFL? Luck was dubbed that guy, and look what happened to him, Kaepernick was the next great thing, now look. Give teams a chance to break down tape over an off season and see what he does.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Break down tape?? Cam isn't a new guy in the league..why is it so hard to believe he has just improved as a passer as a QB. I posted the articles that talked about the improvements he has made. Not just the physical aspects . His pre snap reads his recognizing where the blitz is coming from his abilities to read the defense as the play is unfolding are all better by a large margin..he is improving in the pocket doing all the things he will need to do when he can't move like he can now..

 

[Coryea]

Yeah, players improve so tape from 2013 isn't the same as tape from 2014. My point is, this is the first season that he has been getting this type of hype, and I never said he doesn't deserve it, he's had a great year and deserves to be the MVP. Why can't we wait to see if he can put together a few good seasons? Prior to this season his QB rating was mid 80's and his comp% is still under 60%

 

[insaniti]

Ah. Your agenda here is clear now. You're trying to twist what I said into some kind of anti-white statement.

In that case, never mind. Go be angry on someone else's time.

There's no agenda, I simply pointed out that what you wrote was dumb, and you just keep adding to it.

where did a say Cam wasn't effective? I said he's overrated as a passer. That's one aspect of his game. You misunderstood everything i wrote.

He does that a lot

Yeah, players improve so tape from 2013 isn't the same as tape from 2014. My point is, this is the first season that he has been getting this type of hype, and I never said he doesn't deserve it, he's had a great year and deserves to be the MVP. Why can't we wait to see if he can put together a few good seasons? Prior to this season his QB rating was mid 80's and his comp% is still under 60%

But he throws a tight spiral!!!!

 

[antdrewjosh]

There's no agenda, I simply pointed out that what you wrote was dumb, and you just keep adding to it.



He does that a lot



But he throws a tight spiral!!!!

Well he does spin it pretty good lol

 

[POP]

I don't know if Cam Newton is the new protoypical QB, but I know he is rapidly becoming the latest way to tell white people they are racist. Too many articles on the subject to conclude anything else. If you don't like Cam, or don't think he is great, it is obviously because he is black. Christ, it gets old.

I generally like ESPN's "First Take" (but realize a boatload of sports fans hate Skip, I happen to find him entertaining, although often very biased, but he doesn't really try to deny it, and I find it funny.)

But when they they go off on a "racist" topic, I turn the channel (or fast forward if I am watching in DVR). They typically drivel on and on and on if they are covering a supposed race topic, trying to impress with how candid and fearless of being "politically correct...I GUESS. If Cam wants to bring race into it (as he is) that is his choice, but it is my choice to turn the channel or fast forward when the talking heads blather on and on about an aspect that really doesn't deserve much time or words.

The first black Super Bowl winning was Doug Williams, in 1988. It deserved discussion then. But that was over 25 years ago. Sure, it can be deemed appropriate to mention, but not to have a 30 minute discussion on air. I feel like giving it that much air time is giving too much credit to racists. If they are that freaked out over a black QB in the SB, fine. But giving it so much air time is inappropriate. It gives too much credence to their warped, antiquated mindsets. Even in here, when someone is posting in racist code ("Cam is a gimmick QB, he will fail like those before him") I take one swing at disproving those assertions, but that is it. Anyone repeating that crap is probably racist, and, at the very least, ignorant. Cam has already proven he can be potent as a pocket passer, where he reads defences. Anyone not realising that, has either not watched him play this year, or is in racist denial. (Drops the mic.)

 

[obxsteeler]

I think Bradshaws comp. % was in the 50's and rating was in the 70's. But as he said he and Montana are the only QB's who are 4-0 in SB's. This week is Cam's start on that and he may have a chance.

 

[diver]

I generally like ESPN's "First Take" (but realize a boatload of sports fans hate Skip, I happen to find him entertaining, although often very biased, but he doesn't really try to deny it, and I find it funny.)

But when they they go off on a "racist" topic, I turn the channel (or fast forward if I am watching in DVR). They typically drivel on and on and on if they are covering a supposed race topic, trying to impress with how candid and fearless of being "politically correct...I GUESS. If Cam wants to bring race into it (as he is) that is his choice, but it is my choice to turn the channel or fast forward when the talking heads blather on and on about an aspect that really doesn't deserve much time or words.

The first black Super Bowl winning was Doug Williams, in 1988. It deserved discussion then. But that was over 25 years ago. Sure, it can be deemed appropriate to mention, but not to have a 30 minute discussion on air. I feel like giving it that much air time is giving too much credit to racists. If they are that freaked out over a black QB in the SB, fine. But giving it so much air time is inappropriate. It gives too much credence to their warped, antiquated mindsets. Even in here, when someone is posting in racist code ("Cam is a gimmick QB, he will fail like those before him") I take one swing at disproving those assertions, but that is it. Anyone repeating that crap is probably racist, and, at the very least, ignorant. Cam has already proven he can be potent as a pocket passer, where he reads defences. Anyone not realising that, has either not watched him play this year, or is in racist denial. (Drops the mic.)

The point is though who or where are these people who are freaked out about a black QB in the Super Bowl? It is a strawman. I don't think there is anybody freaked out.

I think stereotyping goes both ways. It is like white people get up in the morning, and have a family breakfast like on "Leave It To Beaver." At that breakfast, the father says to the rest of the family, "What can we do today to keep the (enter race) man down today?" It's ridiculous. I can honestly say I never gave Cam Newton's race a thought until he brought it up. It reminds me of the scene in "City Slickers." Billy Crystal meets the black father and son and they are dentists. He says, "Oh, your dentists." The son says, "Yea, we're black and dentists, let's not make an issue out of it." The father says, "They aren't making an issue out of it, you are." That pretty much is what we have here.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I think Bradshaws comp. % was in the 50's and rating was in the 70's. But as he said he and Montana are the only QB's who are 4-0 in SB's. This week is Cam's start on that and he may have a chance.

You can't compare completion % from the 70s with today. Back in the 70s, the DBs could mug the WRs and offense was different. They didn't have all these short quick throws, mainly because a small guy like Welker would get knocked out every play if he tried to go over the middle and there'd be no flag to keep the drive going.

Passing back then was WRs down the field on the outside, TEs over the middle, and the RBs for short dump offs. It was not high percentage passing schemes.

The west coast philosophy completely changed that with all their short, high percentage throws. That's when 60% became the benchmark for QBs. Today it is even easier because WRs are not allowed to get hit over the middle and they call pass interference whenever the WR stomps his feet and makes the flag motion. These days 65% is more like what a QB should be completing

For Cam to be completing less than 60%, it shows that he's not a great passer. His OL gives him all day to throw and their run game and Cam's running threat means Cam gets to throw against very simple coverages. With all these advantages, Cam still completes under 60%

Cam is still tough to stop when you add in the run game and the overall package but now people are praising him as if he in now a top passer and that's not true. Carolina's defense keeps games close and opoponents score low, so Carolina can stay in their conservative offense. If Cam found himself down 20 against a good team, i think he'd struggle to come back when the defense knew he had to throw and could show him more complex coverages.

We saw this all the time with Kordell. When things went to plan and the defense held the opponent down and the run game was working, Kordell was very effective and the steelers won a bunch of games. But when it didn't go to plan and the steelers found themselves in a hole, Kordell was not going to bring you back.

Cam is better than Kordell but he does still have many of the same issues.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Funny thing about using completion percentage as a measure is that IN PART it relies on the assumption that the WRs are going to catch every catchable ball and also ignores things like drops. Let's say that Ted Ginn Jr. had a 10% drop percentage. (He did) (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/) That affects Newtons completion percentage just as much as if Newton had thrown uncatchable balls or was inaccurate with his throws. Then there are those passes that are catchable, but the receiver for whatever reason doesn't make the catch .. he doesn't drop it, but fails to make the catch; maybe he doesn't get his head around in time, etc. etc. Those count against Newton's completion percentage too.

Does anyone know, in this age of advanced metrics, if there is some group or site that tracks catchable/uncatchable passes thrown by QBs?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

According to that site Carolina had 22 total dropped balls. Martavis had 9 drops himself. New England has 31 drops. Dropped balls go against all QBs, not just Cam.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

According to that site Carolina had 22 total dropped balls. Martavis had 9 drops himself. New England has 31 drops. Dropped balls go against all QBs, not just Cam.

Well dang ... I didn't see where I said that dropped balls go against only Cam Newton. What I said was that dropped balls go against a QBs completion percentage and are a part of the process he has no control over. btw, Ginn had one more drop than Martavis on four less targets. They were both in the top 10 in terms of drop %.

Also, neither the site, nor your evaluation considers catchable balls that the WR fails to catch that aren't technically drops (alligator arms, etc.). Again, I don't know if anybody even measures that (hell they measure everything else), and I'm not going to say that it would greatly affect Cam's completion % ... It would be interesting to see though.For ALL the starting QBs in the league, not just Cam.

There are a lot of articles by other "experts" who claim Cam has progressed as a QB not only this year, but over the course of his career. As a casual observer of the Panthers (i.e. I've seen them play on tv a time or two each season that Cam has been in the league), I believe he's progressed.

 

[Omar10213245]

You can't compare completion % from the 70s with today. Back in the 70s, the DBs could mug the WRs and offense was different. They didn't have all these short quick throws, mainly because a small guy like Welker would get knocked out every play if he tried to go over the middle and there'd be no flag to keep the drive going.

Passing back then was WRs down the field on the outside, TEs over the middle, and the RBs for short dump offs. It was not high percentage passing schemes.

The west coast philosophy completely changed that with all their short, high percentage throws. That's when 60% became the benchmark for QBs. Today it is even easier because WRs are not allowed to get hit over the middle and they call pass interference whenever the WR stomps his feet and makes the flag motion. These days 65% is more like what a QB should be completing

For Cam to be completing less than 60%, it shows that he's not a great passer. His OL gives him all day to throw and their run game and Cam's running threat means Cam gets to throw against very simple coverages. With all these advantages, Cam still completes under 60%

Cam is still tough to stop when you add in the run game and the overall package but now people are praising him as if he in now a top passer and that's not true. Carolina's defense keeps games close and opoponents score low, so Carolina can stay in their conservative offense. If Cam found himself down 20 against a good team, i think he'd struggle to come back when the defense knew he had to throw and could show him more complex coverages.

We saw this all the time with Kordell. When things went to plan and the defense held the opponent down and the run game was working, Kordell was very effective and the steelers won a bunch of games. But when it didn't go to plan and the steelers found themselves in a hole, Kordell was not going to bring you back.

Cam is better than Kordell but he does still have many of the same issues.

Have the panthers not won their fair share of tight games where they scored the go-ahead points very late in the game, these last 2 seasons?

Smh, comparing Cam to Kordell. Are people here worried that admitting to Cam becoming a force in the league will somehow downgrade their own personal opinion of Ben? As if paying proper credit to Newton will force such individuals to begrudgingly accept that the world of quarterbacking doesnt start and end with Roethlisberger?? Because reading some of these comments (not just you, tape), thats what it feels like to me.

 

[awboatguy]

Cam is NOT the QB of the future or any prototype. He is a freak of nature and having great success . You would be very hard pressed to find another like him. Size? Mayb . Speed? Maybe. Arm? Maybe. Game smarts? Maybe, but not all four in one. It's unique and kind of fun to watch.

 

[scstillerfan]

Around this time every year, NFL Network shows the "condensed" version of all the Super Bowls. Last night was Steelers-Cowboys 2. You want a comparison to Cam? Try Roger Staubach. Dude ran and threw the Cowboys back into contention at the end of the game when the Steelers had a big lead. You don't remember QBs running back then, but guys like Staubach and Bradshaw did.

Watching those game makes you realize how many great players were on both teams.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

We saw this all the time with Kordell. When things went to plan and the defense held the opponent down and the run game was working, Kordell was very effective and the steelers won a bunch of games. But when it didn't go to plan and the steelers found themselves in a hole, Kordell was not going to bring you back.

Cam is better than Kordell but he does still have many of the same issues.

The only things Cam and Kordell have in common are that they are both Black, and both run fast.

Kordell was never League MVP

Kordell never led the league in touchdowns

Kordell was undersized, Cam is 6-6

Kordell never had deep accuracy

Kordell never won the Conference Championship

Kordell never Dabbed in the end Zone

Kordell never made his receivers better, which is what all great QBs do (see Ted Ginn Jr)

Kordell never won 15 games

Kordell never through for 4k yards. Cam was the first rookie ever to do so.

Kordell never set the record for most rushing TDs, Cam did so as a rookie (17).

Kordell never threw 30 or more touchdowns in a season.

 

[POP]

The point is though who or where are these people who are freaked out about a black QB in the Super Bowl? It is a strawman. I don't think there is anybody freaked out.

I think stereotyping goes both ways. It is like white people get up in the morning, and have a family breakfast like on "Leave It To Beaver." At that breakfast, the father says to the rest of the family, "What can we do today to keep the (enter race) man down today?" It's ridiculous. I can honestly say I never gave Cam Newton's race a thought until he brought it up. It reminds me of the scene in "City Slickers." Billy Crystal meets the black father and son and they are dentists. He says, "Oh, your dentists." The son says, "Yea, we're black and dentists, let's not make an issue out of it." The father says, "They aren't making an issue out of it, you are." That pretty much is what we have here.

Great analogy, Diver. That is precisely how I felt. The owner/operator of the store across the street is a good litmus test for subjects like this. He happens to be Indian. (Yes, he's Indian _and_ owns a store!) He said - with a heavy Indian accent like Apu Nahasapeemapetilon on "The Simpsons" - "I do not understand why Cam is bringing up all this race stuff. No one cares. No one was thinking about it until he brought it up."

Of course, Skip and Stephen A took off with the story and ran with it, spending like 30 minutes on it to open the show. (They simply overly focus on any stories involving race in any way - it is my biggest criticism of the show. It seems like that directive is coming from the top - hyper focus on any stories involving race, will yea? The media seems to love stirring the pot with stories of race, in a feign acting like it wants to resolve race issues, when, in fact, they are doing everything they can do to worsen and incite racial tensions.

Any how, I wish Cam would stop trying to stir up race BS when there really isn't any to begin with.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Great analogy, Diver. That is precisely how I felt. The owner/operator of the store across the street is a good litmus test for subjects like this. He happens to be Indian. (Yes, he's Indian _and_ owns a store!) He said - with a heavy Indian accent like Apu Nahasapeemapetilon on "The Simpsons" - "I do not understand why Cam is bringing up all this race stuff. No one cares. No one was thinking about it until he brought it up."

Of course, Skip and Stephen A took off with the story and ran with it, spending like 30 minutes on it to open the show. (They simply overly focus on any stories involving race in any way - it is my biggest criticism of the show. It seems like that directive is coming from the top - hyper focus on any stories involving race, will yea? The media seems to love stirring the pot with stories of race, in a feign acting like it wants to resolve race issues, when, in fact, they are doing everything they can do to worsen and incite racial tensions.

Any how, I wish Cam would stop trying to stir up race BS when there really isn't any to begin with.

1. Tell me how an INDIAN is a good litmus test for how AFRICAN-AMERICANS feel about whether an issue of race has merit.

2. Tell me how any person not named Cam Newton is able to tell know what has been said to him at any point in his day; whether it be face to face, via email, twitter, etc. Because I'm sure you must not have seen any of these posts. And I'm also sure that posts like these wouldn't make a person feel that some (if not most) of his critics are focused on his race rather than his ability: http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-people-take-look-tweets-cam-newton/ ... Shame on Cam for feeling this way and bringing up the issue after being confronted with racist statements. He should keep his mouth shut and be a good little BOY and entertain us without complaint.

3. Seems to me that Cam was in part addressing tweets/statements like these. Some of which were made BEFORE he made his statement. But, yeah, it's Cam that's stirring "up the race BS when there really isn't any to begin with".

I'm just saying that it must be real nice and cozy to look at life through rose colored glasses and live a fairy tale life where you can turn a blind eye to issues of race. Or just pooh pah them away because you, who probably have never been confronted by racism or prejudice, don't want to hear about it. But, it does exist and whether you believe that Cam Newton is a good QB or is just having a good year, there's no denying that he's been subject to racist tweets and statements because he is a BLACK Quarterback who is succeeding.

 

[POP]

1. Tell me how an INDIAN is a good litmus test for how AFRICAN-AMERICANS feel about whether an issue of race has merit.

For one, he is a minority himself, who is a likely target for stereotyping and bigotry. And if a man in such a position doesn't see the need to pull the race card, maybe there is some credibility in there.

2. Tell me how any person not named Cam Newton is able to tell know what has been said to him at any point in his day; whether it be face to face, via email, twitter, etc.

It's called common sense. I just don't see rampant racism being targeted towards black QBs these days. It was once an issue, but you no longer see it. I don't.

Because I'm sure you must not have seen any of these posts. And I'm also sure that posts like these wouldn't make a person feel that some (if not most) of his critics are focused on his race rather than his ability: http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-people-take-look-tweets-cam-newton/ ... Shame on Cam for feeling this way and bringing up the issue after being confronted with racist statements. He should keep his mouth shut and be a good little BOY and entertain us without complaint.

Critics? Let's start with the fact that there aren't many out there to begin with. Let's start there.

3. Seems to me that Cam was in part addressing tweets/statements like these. Some of which were made BEFORE he made his statement. But, yeah, it's Cam that's stirring "up the race BS when there really isn't any to begin with".

I'm just saying that it must be real nice and cozy to look at life through rose colored glasses and live a fairy tale life where you can turn a blind eye to issues of race. Or just pooh pah them away because you, who probably have never been confronted by racism or prejudice, don't want to hear about it. But, it does exist and whether you believe that Cam Newton is a good QB or is just having a good year, there's no denying that he's been subject to racist tweets and statements because he is a BLACK Quarterback who is succeeding.

Him, lots of straw man arguments going on here. Let's just say that when you bring the minority, bigots' agenda to light, you are giving them far more attention that they deserve. Cam is giving power and attention to the ignorant fools who don't even deserve being addressed. Perhaps you are too young to grasp this concept. It's like taking little whispers of fools and putting their warped agenda on blast, giving it center stage where it deserved to simply be ignored. Everyone I know who paid attention to this scratches their head at Cam's need to address something that few mainstream people ever thought it was even worth addressing. If it's 1988 and we are talking Doug Williams? Yes, it deserved attention. 25 years later? Not so much. I know no one who still tries to assert that blacks cannot play NFL QB. I know of no one who tries to sell that notion. There are still people who believe the earth is flat. Should we bring focus and attention to those folks? Why not?

 

[Steel Vanguard]

The people who say they "never noticed" a person's race are invariably conservatives and invariably liars.

 

[diver]

1. Tell me how an INDIAN is a good litmus test for how AFRICAN-AMERICANS feel about whether an issue of race has merit.

2. Tell me how any person not named Cam Newton is able to tell know what has been said to him at any point in his day; whether it be face to face, via email, twitter, etc. Because I'm sure you must not have seen any of these posts. And I'm also sure that posts like these wouldn't make a person feel that some (if not most) of his critics are focused on his race rather than his ability: http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-people-take-look-tweets-cam-newton/ ... Shame on Cam for feeling this way and bringing up the issue after being confronted with racist statements. He should keep his mouth shut and be a good little BOY and entertain us without complaint.

3. Seems to me that Cam was in part addressing tweets/statements like these. Some of which were made BEFORE he made his statement. But, yeah, it's Cam that's stirring "up the race BS when there really isn't any to begin with".

I'm just saying that it must be real nice and cozy to look at life through rose colored glasses and live a fairy tale life where you can turn a blind eye to issues of race. Or just pooh pah them away because you, who probably have never been confronted by racism or prejudice, don't want to hear about it. But, it does exist and whether you believe that Cam Newton is a good QB or is just having a good year, there's no denying that he's been subject to racist tweets and statements because he is a BLACK Quarterback who is succeeding.

And there it is. The automatic assumption that all white people are born of privilege. Since they are all born of privilege, how dare that proffer any opinion on this whatsoever.

I am sure Ben has to deal with horrible tweets. Romo. Dear God, what must Brady deal with. I sure Brady gets called a homosexual 1000 times per day. Where is the righteous indignation for that?