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Is Cam the new prototype QB?

  • Thread starter Thread starter POP
  • Start date Start date
POP said:
The answer is "yes" because is he league MVP and can do it all, something no one else can do.

But the answer is also "no" because there are simply no one else out there like him.

They can try to find other Cams out there, but they will fail.

He can obviously run, and not just run, but he's so big he can make power runs, right up the middle, take hits head on and not get hurt. No other QB can do that.

And if they _could_ do it, they probably can't pass with the accuracy of Cam, whether inside our outside the pocket.

And his arm strength and accuracy is top notch.

And to add to all of that, he has no character issues AND has a football mind (that took a while to develop, but he is clearly able to make good decisions on the field now).

And if that isn't enough, he has a burning desire to win.

The closest thing to him is Big Ben. Ben isn't as athletic or big or fast, but who else is closer to being Cam then Ben?

Might have said Kaepernick 2 years ago. Maybe Russel Wilson, but he is short, way short, compared to Cam.

Oh, and if the above isn't enough, the guy is a great leader on top of it all.

Cam is the new prototype QB, but they broke the mold after he was created. I don't see any college QBs that are similar to Cam. None. If they have his athleticism they will be missing some other skills, such
as accuracy, character, pocket passing,that much size, or something.

Hopefully if we see him in the Super Bowl we find some way to beat him, but it won't be easy.
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He hasn't won a super bowl yet so I wouldn't worry too much yet. Also, yes he can run and uses that to throw and it has worked out so far but did it work for RG3? Did it work for Cunningham? Did it work for Steve McNair? Hell, it didn't work for Steve Young he had to become more of a pocket passer before he won a super bowl. Also, he's what 26 years old. How much pounding can his body take?

He's definitely a unique player and is exactly what the Raiders hoped for when they took JaMarcus Russell but the longevity of his career I have my doubts. He's definitely the MVP this year but I wouldn't be surprised if the old general pulls an upset out of his *** and rides off into the sunset very Elway-esc.
 
FordFairLane said:
He hasn't won a super bowl yet so I wouldn't worry too much yet. Also, yes he can run and uses that to throw and it has worked out so far but did it work for RG3? Did it work for Cunningham? Did it work for Steve McNair? Hell, it didn't work for Steve Young he had to become more of a pocket passer before he won a super bowl. Also, he's what 26 years old. How much pounding can his body take?

He's definitely a unique player and is exactly what the Raiders hoped for when they took JaMarcus Russell but the longevity of his career I have my doubts. He's definitely the MVP this year but I wouldn't be surprised if the old general pulls an upset out of his *** and rides off into the sunset very Elway-esc.
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Actually, it did work for Cunningham ... he just didn't win a Super Bowl. It also worked for Young. Yes, Young became more of a pocket passer as he aged, but he was still a running QB when he won took San Fran to the first Super Bowl after the Montana years (and won). He just wasn't a "run first" QB at that time ... and neither is Cam Newton. It also worked for Tarkenton. And has worked extremely well for Russell Wilson. There have been other "mobile" or "running QBs" in the league that have experienced success .. the irony here is that while many of them were not black QBs, black QBs are the first ones brought up when the idea of a mobile QB is mentioned. Stabler was mobile. Elway was mobile. Flutie was mobile. They didn't run the ball as well as Cam, but I don't view that as a knock against Cam ... rather a strength. Cam has not been as accurate as those QBs were. Yet, the kid is only 26 years old. It's not like he is the same QB he was when he came into the league. Nor do I expect he will be the same QB five years from now that he is today. Ben adapted and grew, who's to say Cam can't?

Again, some of you talk about Cam like his growth (as small as you make it seem) is nothing. Yet, is it better to be Cam Newton, still growing as a QB and leading your team to the Super Bowl or Andrew Luck, who despite getting all the accolades, has regressed as a QB and couldn't even lead his team to a division title in the weak AFC South?

As far as the weak schedule argument goes ... So what? They played the schedule that they were given. They won 15 out of 16 games during the regular season. So, if their schedule was weak, they did what they were supposed to and won. They also beat two pretty good defensive teams in the playoffs (annihilating the Cards).

I'm not saying Cam Newton will be in the H.O.F. It's too early for talk like that. However, I think the Panthers, led by Newton have more than a puncher's chance of beating the hell out of the Broncos, led by Manning. We'll see next week though ... that's why they play the game.
 
coryea said:
Not now, that's not what I'm saying, but a couple years ago people were saying this exact same thing about Kaepernick being the new type of QB that everyone looks for, and most would've taken him over Cam a couple years ago.
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well I can't speak for everybody, but even "a couple years ago", I'd still gladly have taken Cam over Kaepernick. I mean, just based off of throwing mechanics alone, I'd have taken Cam over Colin.
 
FordFairLane said:
He hasn't won a super bowl yet so I wouldn't worry too much yet. Also, yes he can run and uses that to throw and it has worked out so far but did it work for RG3? Did it work for Cunningham? Did it work for Steve McNair? Hell, it didn't work for Steve Young he had to become more of a pocket passer before he won a super bowl. Also, he's what 26 years old. How much pounding can his body take?

He's definitely a unique player and is exactly what the Raiders hoped for when they took JaMarcus Russell but the longevity of his career I have my doubts. He's definitely the MVP this year but I wouldn't be surprised if the old general pulls an upset out of his *** and rides off into the sunset very Elway-esc.
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Does anyone know how much time Cam has missed in his 4 years in the league? So far he hasn't struck me as someone who might be "injury-prone" due to his style of play; I could be wrong and forgetting injury(ies) .
 
Cam Newton has missed 2 games I believe
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Actually, it did work for Cunningham ... he just didn't win a Super Bowl. It also worked for Young. Yes, Young became more of a pocket passer as he aged, but he was still a running QB when he won took San Fran to the first Super Bowl after the Montana years (and won). He just wasn't a "run first" QB at that time ... and neither is Cam Newton. It also worked for Tarkenton. And has worked extremely well for Russell Wilson. There have been other "mobile" or "running QBs" in the league that have experienced success .. the irony here is that while many of them were not black QBs, black QBs are the first ones brought up when the idea of a mobile QB is mentioned. Stabler was mobile. Elway was mobile. Flutie was mobile. They didn't run the ball as well as Cam, but I don't view that as a knock against Cam ... rather a strength. Cam has not been as accurate as those QBs were. Yet, the kid is only 26 years old. It's not like he is the same QB he was when he came into the league. Nor do I expect he will be the same QB five years from now that he is today. Ben adapted and grew, who's to say Cam can't?

Again, some of you talk about Cam like his growth (as small as you make it seem) is nothing. Yet, is it better to be Cam Newton, still growing as a QB and leading your team to the Super Bowl or Andrew Luck, who despite getting all the accolades, has regressed as a QB and couldn't even lead his team to a division title in the weak AFC South?

As far as the weak schedule argument goes ... So what? They played the schedule that they were given. They won 15 out of 16 games during the regular season. So, if their schedule was weak, they did what they were supposed to and won. They also beat two pretty good defensive teams in the playoffs (annihilating the Cards).

I'm not saying Cam Newton will be in the H.O.F. It's too early for talk like that. However, I think the Panthers, led by Newton have more than a puncher's chance of beating the hell out of the Broncos, led by Manning. We'll see next week though ... that's why they play the game.
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Cunningham's best years were in Minnesota when he didn't run and he even admitted this. Steve Young again did not become an MPV and super bowl winning QB until... yes he quit scrambling all the time. How many Super Bowls did Franny win? Again you are proving my point. Russell Wilson does run but not by design and not nearly as often as Cam. He also won a super bowl because of his defense and lost one because of his arm.

I am not saying Cam didn't have ONE phenomenal season. But it's one. And he should beat old man Manning and the Donkeys but they haven't played yet and I am not handing Cam the trophy just yet. And the pounding he takes this might be his only big year. Or he could have ten more. I don't know and nobody does because no one else has taken a beating like this before. Yes, he's big and strong but so are the guys hitting him.
 
Omar10213245 said:
Does anyone know how much time Cam has missed in his 4 years in the league? So far he hasn't struck me as someone who might be "injury-prone" due to his style of play; I could be wrong and forgetting injury(ies) .
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He's 26. Do you think he can take those hits when he's 30 or 32?
 
Russell Wilson is the much better AN, 1st QB in NFL history to throw for 4,000 yards, throw 30 TOs and run for over 500 yards, plus he led league in passing this year.
 
insaniti said:
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in awhile. You contradict yourself in your own post, first you say coaches are looking for black QB's, then you say talent and ability are winning over skin color...That in itself would tell the true story that coaches are simply looking for talent, not black QB's.
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You just didn't read. Simple as that.

The point I made is that there are MANY OTHER FACTORS besides race that affect how QBs are scouted. Sorry the point went over your head.
 
Actually, the qb who is physically most like Newton is Luck. Luck is nearly as big, and runs about as well. The difference is that Indy doesn't have many designed runs for Luck. The poster who pointed out the small size of many running qbs was right. Seeing Vick on the sideline, it was amazing how small he is. I doubt that he's actually more than 5'10".
 
Steel Vanguard said:
You just didn't read. Simple as that.

The point I made is that there are MANY OTHER FACTORS besides race that affect how QBs are scouted. Sorry the point went over your head.
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yet you stated several times that coaches were looking for BLACK QB's...I didn't misread
 
insaniti said:
yet you stated several times that coaches were looking for BLACK QB's...I didn't misread
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Yes but I didn't say ONLY Black QBs. You assumed that.

Coaches want that edge. They want to win. In the old days there was no selling the GM and ownership (or at the college level, the boosters) on bringing in a Black QB who had the skills to run the offense. There was deliberate discrimination AT FIRST. Over time it became less about race and more about skill sets. The skill set to run the Triple Option does not translate well to the NFL. When the Spread Option became popular, now you had a skill set that worked in the NFL. And players who ran it, Black and white, got opportunities in the NFL.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
No, Cam is not the first ... Tarkenton, Elway and Young. Tarkenton was more of a scrambler than a runner, but Young and Elway when they were younger (especially Young) were runners. Elway was a better passer, but it took Young a few years to develop his passing game.
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The difference between Cam and those guys, is Cam has immense size, at 6-6. No QB that tall has ever been decent, not to mention, that athletic. Every QB 6-6 has been a bust. Cam is different than ANY QB that has come before him.
 
POP said:
The difference between Cam and those guys, is Cam has immense size, at 6-6. No QB that tall has ever been decent, not to mention, that athletic. Every QB 6-6 has been a bust. Cam is different than ANY QB that has come before him.
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Joe Flacco may not be a Hall of Fame QB, but he's no "bust".
 
POP said:
The difference between Cam and those guys, is Cam has immense size, at 6-6. No QB that tall has ever been decent, not to mention, that athletic. Every QB 6-6 has been a bust. Cam is different than ANY QB that has come before him.
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He's 6'5 same height as Ben. You saying Ben isn't decent?
 
FordFairLane said:
Cunningham's best years were in Minnesota when he didn't run and he even admitted this. Steve Young again did not become an MPV and super bowl winning QB until... yes he quit scrambling all the time. How many Super Bowls did Franny win? Again you are proving my point. Russell Wilson does run but not by design and not nearly as often as Cam. He also won a super bowl because of his defense and lost one because of his arm.

I am not saying Cam didn't have ONE phenomenal season. But it's one. And he should beat old man Manning and the Donkeys but they haven't played yet and I am not handing Cam the trophy just yet. And the pounding he takes this might be his only big year. Or he could have ten more. I don't know and nobody does because no one else has taken a beating like this before. Yes, he's big and strong but so are the guys hitting him.
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While not a running QB ... I'd say that Ben has taken a beating very much like this in his career.

Also, it seems that you missed the parts where I indicated that the above QBs "matured" past the run first mentality. Or maybe it just slipped your mind because I also noted that Cam himself has progressed past that point and is still growing as an NFL QB. The problem is that you hold onto the belief that in five years Newton will still be trying to be the same type of QB he was when he first entered the league. That's not even true today as it's obvious that he's not.

I do agree that we will see where his career takes him. I believe he has a chance to be something special. You do not. We won't know which of us is correct until his career is over.
 
Favre too. That man took some pretty vicious hits in his day, and still played till he was 40+. Now he looks like HGH Santa Claus

brett-favre-muscles.jpg



"ho ho ho! Now where are my ************* cookies!"
 
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Steel Vanguard said:
Yes but I didn't say ONLY Black QBs. You assumed that.

Coaches want that edge. They want to win. In the old days there was no selling the GM and ownership (or at the college level, the boosters) on bringing in a Black QB who had the skills to run the offense. There was deliberate discrimination AT FIRST. Over time it became less about race and more about skill sets. The skill set to run the Triple Option does not translate well to the NFL. When the Spread Option became popular, now you had a skill set that worked in the NFL. And players who ran it, Black and white, got opportunities in the NFL.
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You didn't need to say ONLY black, it was right there in print, "coaches were looking for black QB's" I don't need to assume anything with a statement like that...it was dumb and made the entire post read completely different.
 
insaniti said:
You didn't need to say ONLY black, it was right there in print, "coaches were looking for black QB's" I don't need to assume anything with a statement like that...it was dumb and made the entire post read completely different.
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You're looking for a sentiment that just isn't there. I'm contrasting the way scouting worked before and now. You do acknowledge that there is a time when scouts IGNORED Black QBs in the first place, right? So starting from a place where no Black QBs were scouted, or were scouted to play other positions, to a point where Black QBs were being scouted is a change. You recognize that, do you not? All I am doing is contrasting the fact that once they were not looked at at all, and over time that changed.

I really don't see why that's so difficult for you.
 
Steel Vanguard said:
You're looking for a sentiment that just isn't there. I'm contrasting the way scouting worked before and now. You do acknowledge that there is a time when scouts IGNORED Black QBs in the first place, right? So starting from a place where no Black QBs were scouted, or were scouted to play other positions, to a point where Black QBs were being scouted is a change. You recognize that, do you not? All I am doing is contrasting the fact that once they were not looked at at all, and over time that changed.

I really don't see why that's so difficult for you.
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It's how you phrased it, and it made everything you were trying to say worthless. It doesn't matter how much you preach, doesn't change the wording of your first post, which was dumb. As dumb as Cam saying he's only criticized because he's black.
 
insaniti said:
It's how you phrased it, and it made everything you were trying to say worthless. It doesn't matter how much you preach, doesn't change the wording of your first post, which was dumb. As dumb as Cam saying he's only criticized because he's black.
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Ah. Your agenda here is clear now. You're trying to twist what I said into some kind of anti-white statement.

In that case, never mind. Go be angry on someone else's time.
 
insaniti said:
It's how you phrased it, and it made everything you were trying to say worthless. It doesn't matter how much you preach, doesn't change the wording of your first post, which was dumb. As dumb as Cam saying he's only criticized because he's black.
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Charles Barkley said today something about ESPN trying to push this black vs. white thing, good vs. evil thing. I think he is right. ESPN does nothing but push this racial crap, to make a huge issue out of something that to me just isn't there.

Who the hell is scared of Cam Newton or what he represents? It never, ever once crossed my mind. Would I prefer he not celebrate after every TD? I guess, but I am old school in that regard. I wish everyone, black or white would just hand the ball to the official. That would include someone like Gronkowski having to spike the ball. But I certainly lose no sleep over it.

ESPN does this all the time. They did some whole thing on the Raiders in the '80 and connected it to hip hop and how it unnerved America and all I could think about was I hated the ******' Raiders before NWA ever was and that had nothing to do with my dislike of the Raiders.

They did something on the Miami Hurricanes of the '80s and how America was just so unnerved by the actions of the Miami players and all I could think about was that when they would play Notre Dame I was rooting for the Hurricanes. I hated Notre Dame. I don't remember being unnerved by anything. As a PSU guy I was happy as hell they got beat in '86, but I had no animosity toward the Miami Hurricanes.

They had to do the same racial thing when it pertained to a story about Bill McCartney at Colorado. Everything they do has to center on race. You just get sick of it after a while.
 
diver said:
I wish everyone, black or white would just hand the ball to the official. That would include someone like Gronkowski having to spike the ball. But I certainly lose no sleep over it.
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I hear ya. I miss Barry Sanders. Guy probably has the largest amount of spectacular plays in the history of the NFL. Treated every TD the same, just handed the ball to the ref.
 
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