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Does Bud Dupree need to make an impact as a rookie?

Coach I have a question for you sir. Is his head too big like you one said of Troy's head? I was just wondering!
 
steelhurt said:
Coach I have a question for you sir. Is his head too big like you one said of Troy's head? I was just wondering!
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Dupree is rather tall. We are going back 10+ years here, but I believe the initial comment was Troy at the shoulder level isn't very tall. Someone wanted more information, and I said his head was rather large.

I'm not touching our 2nd round picks lack of height. No-no!
 
Coach said:
Dupree did well on raw ability. I think he's tough vs. the run because he's very big for a OLB in a 3-4 system and tall and fast enough to be an asset in coverage. None of that has to do with smarts. Smart to me is technique, reaction, instincts, knowing the defense etc...

Is Dupree a smart player? They said it. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/bud-dupree?id=2552289


STRENGTHS Freakish athlete with chiseled frame. Posted incredible 42-inch vertical leap and 4.56 40 at the combine while weighing 269 pounds. Outstanding power with ability to rag-doll tight ends at will. Should be an above average edge-setter. Good transition from playing run to rushing quarterback in play-action. Explosive closing burst. Willing thumper when he has a shot on running back. Can drop into space and play zone. Raw, but learning with huge growth potential as a player. Has strength at the point to be a physical edge-setter. Scouts give him plus grade for character.


WEAKNESSES Tall but not long. Wins with athleticism over skill at this point. Some scouts believe his instincts are below average, leading to hesitation. Will get caught taking bad angles to the ball. Needs to improve hand fighting. Still raw rushing the passer. Doesn't possess a go-to pass-rush move. Appears to lack urgency in-game.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1

SOURCES TELL US "He's a little slow to diagnose, which causes him to get a late start on plays. I would ask him to drop into space in zone dog looks and that's about it. To me, he's a pure see 'em, get 'em 3-4 rush end." -- NFC East regional scout

^^^ Okay, there you have it. If you factor in a low score of 12 and 13 on the wonderlic test, it increases doubts.
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lmao ... nowhere in that analysis do THEY question his intelligence. As a matter of fact, YOU are the only person I've seen do that, and you can't even spell the man's name correctly.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
lmao ... nowhere in that analysis do THEY question his intelligence. As a matter of fact, YOU are the only person I've seen do that, and you can't even spell the man's name correctly.
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Quite right, although, if you stretch it, you might say "instincts are below average" might mean that. I don't think so.

His instincts may be below average because of the items you (buckeye) stated earlier (I'm taking them at face value). In fact, you would expect them to be so. It has zero to do with his intellect and everything to do with what he has been taught.

I didn't read through the Wonderlic score thread. How convinced are we that it was a 12 or 13? The only one I see refer to it is Coach.
 
Also it's been stated in this thread the man was a big time TE in high school. Don't know if he played LB too in high school. But even so his main position was TE. That's what he was recruited as. He made the switch at Kentucky because it was a way to get on the field faster..he switched over to OLB without a position coach. Those things may have contributed to his lack of instincts at the position.
 
ark steel said:
Quite right, although, if you stretch it, you might say "instincts are below average" might mean that. I don't think so.

His instincts may be below average because of the items you (buckeye) stated earlier (I'm taking them at face value). In fact, you would expect them to be so. It has zero to do with his intellect and everything to do with what he has been taught.

I didn't read through the Wonderlic score thread. How convinced are we that it was a 12 or 13? The only one I see refer to it is Coach.
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Coach linked to some article, I think it was in the Washington Post or something where the writer stated something like he had heard that Dupree's score was a 13. So, not too sure.
 
2015 Wonderlic Scores

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main post to be updated as scores are reported....

Quarterbacks:
40: Sean Mannion
33: Marcus Mariota
31: Bryce Petty
31: Cody Fajardo
27: Jameis Winston
26: Brett Hundley
25: Shane Carden
22: Connor Halliday
20: Anthony Boone
20: Garrett Grayson

Wide Receivers:
34: Darren Waller
24: Rashad Greene
22: Jaelen Strong
22: Jake Kumerow
21: Amari Cooper
20: Dorial Green-Beckham
19: Andrew DeBose
15: DeVante Parker
14: Sammie Coates
11: Mario Alford (re-test after scoring 5 the first time)

Tight Ends:
32: Tyler Kroft
30: Justin Sinz
29: Max Williams

Running Backs:
35: Zach Zenner
28: Tyler Varga
24: Jay Ajayi
20: Melvin Gordon
12: Buck Allen
12: Todd Gurley

Offensive Linemen:
40: Corey Robinson
33: Ali Marpet
29: Mitch Morse
28: Hronnis Grasu
27: Andrus Peat
26: Dallas Lewallen
25: Rob Havenstein
23: Zac Epping
23: Cedric Ogbuehi
23: Laken Tomlinson
22: Brandon Scherff
14: John Miller (re-test after scoring 7 the first time)
12: D.J. Humphries
12: La'el Collins

Linebackers
33: Davis Tull
32: Eric Kendricks
29: Vic Beasley
29: Hau'oli Kikaha
28: Randy Gregory
28: Jordan Hicks
23: Stephone Anthony
22: Jake Ryan
21: Nate Orchard
20: Paul Dawson
20: Shane Ray
17: Denzel Perryman
16: Dante Fowler
14: Bernardrick McKinney
13: Bud Dupree (re-test after scoring 12 the first time)

Defensive Linemen:
43: Michael Bennett
36: Henry Anderson
32: Cameron Bottecelli
31: Grady Jarrett
26: Arik Armstead
24: Trey Flowers
24: Mike Hardy
23: Danny Shelton
22: Leonard Williams
19: Malcom Brown
19: Warren Herring

Defensive Backs
33: Byron Jones
30: Alex Carter
28: Jalen Collins
26: Ibraheim Campbell
23: Eric Rowe (re-test after scoring 11 the first time)
20: Trae Waynes
18: P.J. Williams
18: Damarious Randall
17: Landon Collins
17: Ronald Darby
17: Kevin Johnson
13: Marcus Peters
12: James Sample

Specialists:
31: Josh Lambo
30: Joe Cardona
29: Andrew East
25: Will Hagerup

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by BowlenBall; 04-30-2015 at 02:19 PM..


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Lot of guys on that list who will be counted on by their respective teams on Sundays who scored lower than a 15. Lot of first round guys. I guess they'll all fail.


Edit: Thanks for the list Hurt.
 
I have never relied on these scores to properly evaluate a players talent or what he may become in the NFL. They do not measure heart, a willingness to work hard and do whatever it takes, desire, determination. Bud will do fine and I for one will not be concerned about a lower wonderlic score. Geez Dan Marino didn't exactly light it up and he played the most difficult of positons to near perfection. Silly tests!
 
They aren't published but NFL teams are now using better IQ tests than the wonderlic on players at the combine.

I actually do think they are relevant and I think it can greatly effect HOW you coach up a player and WHAT you decide he is responsible for on the mental side of the game. Just like you don't draft a 5'-8" 175 LB running back to be a bellcow back in the NFL, you shouldn't draft a guy with a 13-15 wonderlic and expect him to walk into your system, dump the whole playbook on his desk and expect him to know it in 2 weeks.

To me expecting the latter is the same as expecting the former. Sometimes I wonder if coaches realize this.

Every characteristic of a playing, including his natural IQ (which the wonderlic test closely duplicates), are important factors in finding a roll for a player on a team that BEST lets him succeed. If you put unrealistic expectations on a player's mental side yet you drafted a kid with a 13 wonderlic, his failure is NOT on the player, it's on the GM and scouting that decide to select him in the first place thinking he could succeed with that type of mental pressure from the coaches.

It all ties together. It's just another small amount of information that should characterize a player to a GM/coach that helps them find the right place for them on the field.
 
Well I just read an article that states the Steelers liked his ability to process and diagnose plays quickly and that along with his speed, size and production in college is why they drafted him. Suppose the wonderlic score didn't mean much to them one bit or they would not have drafted him.
 
Yep apparently he is a very quick study and is picking it up fast
 
Del makes excellent points about IQ and the ability to process book knowledge or in this case playbook knowledge.

There are people that learn by seeing, and learn by doing, and situational learners (those who retain knowledge best while learning in specific settings). These are not quantifiable forms of learning, and unintelligent people can be very successful in learning and retaining knowledge utilizing these methods. The football field is the ultimate location for situational learning, learning from the coaches, veterans, and teammates is good visual learning, and learning via execution under the coaches guidance is your learn by doing.

It seems to me that his past coaches don't have an issue with his ability to learn on the practice field. Though his low Wonderlic is a negative factor, hopefully on the field learning will be Dupree's strong suit.
 
All I need to know about the Wonderlic and NFL success is contained in the following statements:

Johnny Manziel scored higher on the Wonderlic Test — a pre-draft general intelligence test given to NFL draftees — than any other top quarterback prospect.

His reported score of 32 is even higher than Peyton Manning's score.

In his column this morning, SI's Peter King said that the score helped confirm Manziel's ability to digest a complicated offense.
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In a 2009 study led by Brian D. Lyons at Fresno State, researchers looked at the link between scoring high on the Wonderlic and succeeding in the NFL.

Their hypothesis was that the two would be strongly correlated.

That was not the case.

Using 762 players drafted between 2002 and 2004, Lyons and his colleagues found no relationship between the Wonderlic and performance on the field. In fact, players who scored lower on the Wonderlic actually turned out to be a tiny bit better, on average, than those who got high scores.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/johnny-manziel-wonderlic-score-2014-4
 
what's going on here?
i'm the only person amazed at winston's 27?
 
I thought we might see an IQ test posted for coach because he did post his wonderlic score. The fact that he is tempted but won't post as to our second rounders height is a sure sign of greatness. Just kidding ya coach your fuel to the discussion really adds something to it and for some reason none of us can seem to let the Troy's head is too big stuff go, it looks like you have found your path to immortality.
 
skialta said:
what's going on here?
i'm the only person amazed at winston's 27?
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Winston was actually accepted to Stanford and almost went there but chose free stuff and early playing time instead.
 
TAS said:
NASA didn't call Bud for employment the Steelers did.
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He was smart enough to not get caught stealing or doing a multitude of other dumbass things and to graduate from school.
 
some people learn better by hands on

a hands on approach to learning

they retain it better

I am one of those people

If I had to guess I would say Bud is too by the reports.

Through the years we used to look at that test and a fair amount of the time the players at the top of the list, weren't the people that turned into NFL superstars.

If the game was played at a desk, on paper I might be concerned.

But it isn't.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Lot of guys on that list who will be counted on by their respective teams on Sundays who scored lower than a 15. Lot of first round guys. I guess they'll all fail.


Edit: Thanks for the list Hurt.
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Here's the thing. A 12 as Durpee scored is very low. A 10 means you can't read or have a learning disability. A 12? Might have guess a few questions right. I have read many times our defense is complicated. When you tie this into reports that say Durpee is late diagnosing a play, or gets by on pure god given gifts rather than technique, it could mean something.

A college degree for a football player could simply means he showed up and put in some effort. Do not confuse this with joe average student who doesn't help the school make money.
 
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skialta said:
what's going on here?
i'm the only person amazed at winston's 27?
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Winston is smart. It's his lack of judgement / charter / respect for others. I think he's also prone to mistakes and putting on weight.
 
Coach said:
A college degree for a football player could simply means he showed up and put in some effort. Do not confuse this with joe average student who doesn't help the school make money.
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The degree is in Community Leadership. No idea what that entails. If the most obvious example of this is any indication, I suggest it means very little with regard to intellect
 
ark steel said:
The degree is in Community Leadership. No idea what that entails. If the most obvious example of this is any indication, I suggest it means very little with regard to intellect
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If you have HBO dial up " Real Sports " on demand as they had a segment a few months ago on this very topic. There are " football degrees ". No all universities do this, but many do to keep their athletes on the field.

Let's hope Dupree is a Kinesthetic Learner type.
 
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