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Does Bud Dupree need to make an impact as a rookie?

I think it will come down to scheme and I'm very concerned. When this team sat back and played coverage it just gets roasted. They did better for a stretch by playing at the line and exchanging giving up some big plays for some timely turnovers. I'm thinking the stretch around the Colts game. However they ended up with the safe know where we are routine. I think that is a Tomlin. I think that will be exposed this year and it will be hard to support anything but his exit.
 
Dupree has done most of the things he needs to do when playing already. He has covered, rushed and stopped the run. He will be learning lots of technique this year. I would expect him to become a rotational player for the steelers gradually getting more snaps. I do think he will have an impact this year, entering the game on some packages. If he can come in on a series or two or in situational football it might just be enough to keep the rest of the linebackers fresh and that in and of itself would be a huge contribution.
 
For the steelers to excel, to be dominant,they NEED the hard rush and great play from their OLB's.

Mediocre play from those two positions wont get them anywhere. So yeah bud Dupree needs to be VERY impactful.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
40 sacks should be the minimum you want. 50 or more is the goal

Here's the minimum we should expect
OLB 20
DL 10
ILB 8
DB 5
Total 43

Here were the sacks last year
OLB 19 - Worilds 7.5, Harrison 5.5, Moats 4, Jarvis 2
DL 11 - Heyward 7.5, Keisel 1, McLendon 1, Tuitt 1, Cam Thomas .5
ILB 3 - Timmons 2, Spence 1,
DB 0
Total 33

You see that last year the OLB barely did enough and the DL did a nice job. The ILB and DBs couldn't blitz much because the coverage was so bad.

They have to get 20 sacks from the OLBs. Harrison and Moats should be able to combine for 10. That leaves Jarvis and Dupree. How much does Dupree need to contribute? If Jarvis plays like a 1st rounder and gets 8-10 sacks, then Dupree doesn't have to do much. But if Jarvis stays at 5 sacks or less than we need Dupree to have a big rookie year.

So yes, Dupree needs to make an impact, unless Tuitt steps up and the combo of Tuitt and Heyward can get 15 sacks.

If the secondary is better, then that will allow some more blitzes from Timmons and Shazier. Timmons has had 7 sacks in a season before. He can have 4 sacks easily. Shazier is an athlete they haven't had at ILB since Chad Brown. 4 sacks is not impossible for him either. That give you 8 right there.

Add in a few random DB sacks on blitzes and there are your 40 sacks. It can be 50 if an OLB has an unexpected 10 sack season.
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I see it the same way. We lost 7.5 sacks from Worilds. Bud has to add something. Its not only sacks though. A deflected pass or QB hurry that results in a 0 yard game is a big play that helps to get the defense off the field.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
40 sacks should be the minimum you want. 50 or more is the goal

Here's the minimum we should expect
OLB 20
DL 10
ILB 8
DB 5
Total 43

Here were the sacks last year
OLB 19 - Worilds 7.5, Harrison 5.5, Moats 4, Jarvis 2
DL 11 - Heyward 7.5, Keisel 1, McLendon 1, Tuitt 1, Cam Thomas .5
ILB 3 - Timmons 2, Spence 1,
DB 0
Total 33

You see that last year the OLB barely did enough and the DL did a nice job. The ILB and DBs couldn't blitz much because the coverage was so bad.

They have to get 20 sacks from the OLBs. Harrison and Moats should be able to combine for 10. That leaves Jarvis and Dupree. How much does Dupree need to contribute? If Jarvis plays like a 1st rounder and gets 8-10 sacks, then Dupree doesn't have to do much. But if Jarvis stays at 5 sacks or less than we need Dupree to have a big rookie year.

So yes, Dupree needs to make an impact, unless Tuitt steps up and the combo of Tuitt and Heyward can get 15 sacks.

If the secondary is better, then that will allow some more blitzes from Timmons and Shazier. Timmons has had 7 sacks in a season before. He can have 4 sacks easily. Shazier is an athlete they haven't had at ILB since Chad Brown. 4 sacks is not impossible for him either. That give you 8 right there.

Add in a few random DB sacks on blitzes and there are your 40 sacks. It can be 50 if an OLB has an unexpected 10 sack season.
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Worilds had 7.5 sacks with Cam Thomas playing in front of him (at least, part of the time) and, I think, dropping into coverage a bit more than you would like due to the coverage issues you covered. I believe Tuitt to be better than Thomas and should allow that LOLB a better shot at getting to the QB. Moats got 4 sacks in part time work on the right side. With more snaps, we should expect for him to increase that.

With Harrison starting out the season in game shape, offenses will have to worry more about him than they might have last year, I think. That should, also help whoever is on the other side.

In addition, if Shazier is healthy, they may need the OLB to drop into coverage less, leaving them open to more QB attacking or allow more DB attempts.
 
ark steel said:
Worilds had 7.5 sacks with Cam Thomas playing in front of him (at least, part of the time) and, I think, dropping into coverage a bit more than you would like due to the coverage issues you covered. I believe Tuitt to be better than Thomas and should allow that LOLB a better shot at getting to the QB. Moats got 4 sacks in part time work on the right side. With more snaps, we should expect for him to increase that.

With Harrison starting out the season in game shape, offenses will have to worry more about him than they might have last year, I think. That should, also help whoever is on the other side.

In addition, if Shazier is healthy, they may need the OLB to drop into coverage less, leaving them open to more QB attacking or allow more DB attempts.
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this is a very accurate and interesting point
 
My sack predictions.

James Harrison- 8 (leaving him .5 from Gildon)
Arthur Moats- 8.5
Bud Dupree- 5
Jarvis Jones- 1

Ryan Shazier- 4
Lawrence Timmons- 3

Cam Heyward- 9
Stephon Tuitt- 4
Steve McLendon- 1
Dan McCullers- 2
 
I'll play FFL:

J.H: 7
Moats: 7
Jarvis: 6
Dupree: 4

Timmons: 4
Shazier: 2

Heyward 7
Tuitt: 4
McL: 3
Big Mac: 1
 
They can put a bell around Timmon's neck so Shazier knows where he is and can avoid being put out of commission by his own player.
 
ark steel said:
With Harrison starting out the season in game shape, offenses will have to worry more about him than they might have last year, I think. That should, also help whoever is on the other side.
Click to expand...

Deebo isn't starting. He is on Jarvis' side, so sharing snaps with Jarvis.

Moats and Dupree or whoever steps up ,, on the left side.

This is my understanding.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Deebo isn't starting. He is on Jarvis' side, so sharing snaps with Jarvis.

Moats and Dupree or whoever steps up ,, on the left side.

This is my understanding.
Click to expand...

I had overlooked that Harrison's snaps will be more limited. I was thinking more along the lines of, when he does come into the game, he will be more in "football shape" than he was when he first came back last year. Theoretically, he should also have more energy throughout the year, having been limited earlier in the year.

So, to amend, when Harrison is in the game, it should give the Offense something else to worry about and open it up for the LOLB. I believe this helps Moats more than what he had last year when he was lined up with Worilds on the other side. I also believe we start with Moats and, Dupree has to work his way in, if he can the first year.
 
I'll play too.

J. Jones - 5.0
J. Harrison - 5.0
A. Moats - 4.0
B. Dupree - 3.0

L. Timmons - 3.0
R. Shazier - 2.0

C. Heyward - 7.5
S. Tuitt - 2.0
S. McLendon - 1.5
C. Geathers - 1.0

W. Gay - 1.0
C. Allen - 1.0

Total = 36 Sacks
 
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Man you're a pessimist in your old age Del, I'll put money on the over! ;)
 
SteelBuckeye said:
I am not disputing your numbers as far as what is ideal. I am, however, interested in how you obtained them. Are these something like league averages?
Click to expand...

40 is not exactly league average. I'm not sure what the league average is year after year. I just know that 40 generally seems to be the point where you have a good pass rush. if you are down near 30 then your pass rush generally sucks. Up near 50 and you are usually one of the best in the league.

The breakdown by position is just my own view based on how the 3-4 should operate. The OLBs should be the main pass rushers. If the OLBs can't get the job done then those sacks need to come from someplace else. Maybe Timmons and Shazier can combine for 12 instead of 8 if they are able to blitz more.

The bottom line is if the OLBs are the primary rushers and they should be able to get half your sacks by beating blockers, not by scheme. If that doesn't happen then the DC has to scheme up some sacks. Lebeau was great at doing that most years but finally the cupboard was just too bare.
 
Cope said:
Man you're a pessimist in your old age Del, I'll put money on the over! ;)
Click to expand...

How am I being pessimistic?

We had 35, 37, 34 and 33 sacks the last four seasons. I think guessing 36 is pretty optimistic. I could have guessed 30 and not been crazy.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
40 is not exactly league average. I'm not sure what the league average is year after year. I just know that 40 generally seems to be the point where you have a good pass rush. if you are down near 30 then your pass rush generally sucks. Up near 50 and you are usually one of the best in the league.

The breakdown by position is just my own view based on how the 3-4 should operate. The OLBs should be the main pass rushers. If the OLBs can't get the job done then those sacks need to come from someplace else. Maybe Timmons and Shazier can combine for 12 instead of 8 if they are able to blitz more.

The bottom line is if the OLBs are the primary rushers and they should be able to get half your sacks by beating blockers, not by scheme. If that doesn't happen then the DC has to scheme up some sacks. Lebeau was great at doing that most years but finally the cupboard was just too bare.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. Seems legit.
 
Here are my guesses at sack totals. These are mostly conservative.
Heyward 7
Harrison 7
Moats 5
Tuitt 4
Timmons 4
Shazier 3
DBs 3

That's 33 sacks there. They have to get 10 out of Jarvis and Dupree and that would make 43 and they'd be in good shape.

I really think the ****** secondary was a big part of the pass rush problem. Troy was half speed. Mitchell was hobbled. Cortez lost his nerve. The LBs had too much coverage responsibility.

I'm expecting the secondary to be much better. Maybe not top in the league but not a liablity like last year. That should let the LBs concentrate more on pass rush.

Shazier had a lost season and i think they had big plans for him as a hybrid player. A guy who can drop in coverage or rush the passer. That could free Timmons to rush more. We may see some of the middle cross blitzes actually be effective again with an athlete like Shazier.
 
wig said:
Is this a euphemism?
Click to expand...

tapeANaspirin2it said:
Here are my guesses at sack totals. These are mostly conservative.
Heyward 7
Harrison 7
Moats 5
Tuitt 4
Timmons 4
Shazier 3
DBs 3

That's 33 sacks there. They have to get 10 out of Jarvis and Dupree and that would make 43 and they'd be in good shape.

I really think the ****** secondary was a big part of the pass rush problem. Troy was half speed. Mitchell was hobbled. Cortez lost his nerve. The LBs had too much coverage responsibility.

I'm expecting the secondary to be much better. Maybe not top in the league but not a liablity like last year. That should let the LBs concentrate more on pass rush.

Shazier had a lost season and i think they had big plans for him as a hybrid player. A guy who can drop in coverage or rush the passer. That could free Timmons to rush more. We may see some of the middle cross blitzes actually be effective again with an athlete like Shazier.
Click to expand...
I will blow my TV up if I see those again...
 
As opposed to seeing Larry Foote just run into a guard?
 
bermudasteel said:
I will blow my TV up if I see those again...
Click to expand...

I am just curious bermuda why you feel that way about the cross blitz. As I remember it was very effective when the team had the personnel to execute it. With Timmons and Shazier both being fleet footed they might actually be able to get a charge up the middle and that is a short cut to the quarterback and often forces him to run laterally into another defender. Did by chance miss the sarcasm indicator?
:whistle:
 
deljzc said:
I'll play too.

J. Jones - 5.0
J. Harrison - 5.0
A. Moats - 4.0
B. Dupree - 3.0

L. Timmons - 3.0
R. Shazier - 2.0

C. Heyward - 7.5
S. Tuitt - 2.0
S. McLendon - 1.5
C. Geathers - 1.0

W. Gay - 1.0
C. Allen - 1.0

Total = 36 Sacks
Click to expand...

Jones - 7.0
Deebo - 6.0
Moats - 4.0
Dupree - 6.0

Timmons - 2.0
Shazier - 3.0

Rest of LBs 3.0

Heyward - 5.5
Tuitt - 3.5
McLendon 1.5
Geathers - 1.0
McCullers - 2.0

DBs total 3.0

Total 47.5

Championsip!!
 
Yes. This defense needs to make large strides for the steelers to be a super bowl contender. Plenty of players needed. The offense is ready to hit their peak. The defense needs to catch up in a hurry. Rookies to Vets, they need to get it done.
 
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