Does Bud Dupree need to make an impact as a rookie?

[antdrewjosh]

I am just curious bermuda why you feel that way about the cross blitz. As I remember it was very effective when the team had the personnel to execute it. With Timmons and Shazier both being fleet footed they might actually be able to get a charge up the middle and that is a short cut to the quarterback and often forces him to run laterally into another defender. Did by chance miss the sarcasm indicator?

That blitz worked effectively because of Casey Hampton. Nothing to do with the LBs. Casey took two blockers leaving the remaining inside OL to guess and take one of the blitzing ILBs. leaving one to run free to the QB. It doesn't work now because McClendon doesn't always draw a double team.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

So, to amend, when Harrison is in the game, it should give the Offense something else to worry about and open it up for the LOLB. I believe this helps Moats more than what he had last year when he was lined up with Worilds on the other side.

Agree. And think about this Ark, Harrison basicly has 1 year to catch Gildon. I think he WANTS to. Im following him on FB and the guy is posting vids of himself lifting. He is an animal in the weight room. I think he is in for 25% of snaps,, but 1. If he gets the results then his % will climb. 2. Every snap will be full out omg I gotta get the sack to catch Gildon.

He needs 8 sacks on the year to pass Gildong.

 

[DBS1970]

It would be nice to see him make an impact.

 

[Wingman]

That blitz worked effectively because of Casey Hampton. Nothing to do with the LBs. Casey took two blockers leaving the remaining inside OL to guess and take one of the blitzing ILBs. leaving one to run free to the QB. It doesn't work now because McClendon doesn't always draw a double team.

That would assume that the crossfire is not sending two guys in the same gap. If the nose gets some push on the center opening a bigger gap on one side the two linebackers can both cross in front of the same guard and hopefully one goes free at the qb. The idea of the blitz is to send two guys at one player so one offensive lineman is blocking empty space and the ones that are left are engaged and allow a free run. To get a double team either of the ends can draw a tackle and guard and that still leaves the tackles for the line backers who if one drops into coverage the end will likely draw a double and still free up the blitz. There are lots of ways to get it done with out Casey Hampton, the fact that they weren't could be attributed to a lot of the other guys on the front seven.

 

[Drink IRON City]

When Cam thomas is laying on his back, 10yards down field, I highly doubt he is comanding a double team. from what I've been reading, the McCullers kid is in way better shape than last year, I see poterntial draw, of a double team. It's not totally neccessary to have a nose/double team, but it does help..



Salute the nation

 

[Litos]

When Cam thomas is laying on his back, 10yards down field, I highly doubt he is comanding a double team. from what I've been reading, the McCullers kid is in way better shape than last year, I see poterntial draw, of a double team. It's not totally neccessary to have a nose/double team, but it does help..



Salute the nation

the only double thing that Cam Thomas commands is a double cheese burger

 

[Drink IRON City]

the only double thing that Cam Thomas commands is a double cheese burger

ORrrrrrrr.................................A double shot of PENICILLIAN !!!!



Salute the nation

 

[stuntmanmike]

I think Dupree has a good year maybe even a rookie of the year kind of year. My thinking is he playing, I think, behind iron head 2 and will be seeing a lot of tightends and running backs trying to block him. He's way to big and fast to be blocked that way. I think he gets 10 sacks. I think the left side combines for more than twenty sacks, IH2, moats and Dupree. Go steelers

 

[ark steel]

I think Dupree has a good year maybe even a rookie of the year kind of year. My thinking is he playing, I think, behind iron head 2 and will be seeing a lot of tightends and running backs trying to block him. He's way to big and fast to be blocked that way. I think he gets 10 sacks. I think the left side combines for more than twenty sacks, IH2, moats and Dupree. Go steelers

I think he is playing on the other side from Heyward, right? Tuitt (assuming he gets the starts) should be in front of him.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Ya I'm not sure, heyward was in front of worlds wasn't he, I know they move these guys around a lot. But I think both ends have to be blocked with tackles I think Tuitt has good potential to get sacks. Jones can be blocked with backs and tight ends I don't see that happening with Dupree, he's a 270 beast.

 

[ark steel]

I think Moats is, probably, solid enough that Bud will have to play pretty well just to get on the field.

Some of the analysis of Bud, before the draft, is that he is slow to diagnose the play. If true, that has to be fixed. We've given up big plays on D the last few years. On some of those, it lookedIke the entire D read the play the same way, but it was very, very wrong.

 

[Wingman]

I suspect that Bud will have better coaching and be playing on a rotational basis with Moats. This will allow Bud to have a smaller skill set to master initially and keep Moates fresher as well. It should be a win /win for the defense. Same thing on the other side with Jarvis and James. Rotation should help keep both players fresh and keep the other teams from scheming against a known alignment of defenders. For example planning on blocking Jarvis with a back only to find out your back has to block a rested James Harrison could result in some problems for the offense. Same thing if the offense over commits to make sure Harrison will be blocked and Jarvis is now eating up a double team will allow another to likely get free. Then there is the possibility that Jarvis may have a good year on his own and just keeping him fresh maybe a big help.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I think Moats is, probably, solid enough that Bud will have to play pretty well just to get on the field.

Some of the analysis of Bud, before the draft, is that he is slow to diagnose the play. If true, that has to be fixed. We've given up big plays on D the last few years. On some of those, it lookedIke the entire D read the play the same way, but it was very, very wrong.

Bud didn't have an OLB coach at UK. Kinda weird situation if you ask me. You're asking a kid to learn a new position without having anyone teach him the basics of the position, what that position's responsibilities are and even HOW to diagnose a play from that position. I'd hazard a guess that that situation would lend itself to making one slow to diagnose plays.

Better coaching and mentoring should solve that problem. Not immediately (I don't think), but hopefully quickly.

Same thing with his lack of pass rush moves; although you didn't mention that. Kinda hard to develop an OLB's pass rush moves w/out someone to teach you the techniques.

It kinda makes you wonder what the **** they were doing down there in Kentucky. "Hey guys, we're switching to a 3-4. You OLB's are on your own. Get together and figure out how you're gonna do this."

 

[antdrewjosh]

Bud didn't have an OLB coach at UK. Kinda weird situation if you ask me. You're asking a kid to learn a new position without having anyone teach him the basics of the position, what that position's responsibilities are and even HOW to diagnose a play from that position. I'd hazard a guess that that situation would lend itself to making one slow to diagnose plays.

Better coaching and mentoring should solve that problem. Not immediately (I don't think), but hopefully quickly.

Same thing with his lack of pass rush moves; although you didn't mention that. Kinda hard to develop an OLB's pass rush moves w/out someone to teach you the techniques.

It kinda makes you wonder what the **** they were doing down there in Kentucky. "Hey guys, we're switching to a 3-4. You OLB's are on your own. Get together and figure out how you're gonna do this."

Yes and he also came to Kentucky as a big time TE prospect

 

[ark steel]

Bud didn't have an OLB coach at UK. Kinda weird situation if you ask me. You're asking a kid to learn a new position without having anyone teach him the basics of the position, what that position's responsibilities are and even HOW to diagnose a play from that position. I'd hazard a guess that that situation would lend itself to making one slow to diagnose plays.

Better coaching and mentoring should solve that problem. Not immediately (I don't think), but hopefully quickly.

Same thing with his lack of pass rush moves; although you didn't mention that. Kinda hard to develop an OLB's pass rush moves w/out someone to teach you the techniques.

It kinda makes you wonder what the **** they were doing down there in Kentucky. "Hey guys, we're switching to a 3-4. You OLB's are on your own. Get together and figure out how you're gonna do this."

I wasn't intending the comment about draft analysis as criticism from me, just that it seemed to be an issue. He was expected to go before our pick by a lot of people, so im sure the comments about diagnosing plays wasnt a criticism of his ability to learn. Clearly, the Steelers didn't think it mattered.

My opinion is that *why* it is an issue isn't relevant, at this point, as long as it is recognized by the coaching staff and player that it needs work. Again, clearly, lots of people seemed to think he has the ability to learn it and I don't expect him to do so immediately.

The is part of the reason, I think Moats holds down the job for a bit. He might not be spectacular, but should be solid enough.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I wasn't intending the comment about draft analysis as criticism from me, just that it seemed to be an issue. He was expected to go before our pick by a lot of people, so im sure the comments about diagnosing plays wasnt a criticism of his ability to learn. Clearly, the Steelers didn't think it mattered.

My opinion is that *why* it is an issue isn't relevant, at this point, as long as it is recognized by the coaching staff and player that it needs work. Again, clearly, lots of people seemed to think he has the ability to learn it and I don't expect him to do so immediately.

The is part of the reason, I think Moats holds down the job for a bit. He might not be spectacular, but should be solid enough.

I didn't take it as criticism coming from you. I was just providing a little background on what may have been the issue.

I'm a fan of Moats. I think he played well considering it was his first year in the system last year. He seems to be a stand up guy with good character and he likes the area. He's the type of guy you keep around for veteran depth that can give you a good to above average game or season if need be. Having Moats makes it less imperative that Bud start right away. However, I would expect the snap count pendulum to start swinging more in Bud's favor by game 10.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I didn't mind the criticism of Dupree. The main ones were lack of moves and slow to diagnose. Lack of moves applies to just about every college pass rusher, so that one isn't even a criticism to me. It's like saying a WR doesn't run great routes. Very few do so i consider it a positive if they do but not a negative if they don't.

The same goes for the criticism of slow to diagnose with a pass rusher. It is a concern if he's a Safety or a MLB, but not for a pass rusher. That's because once again, most college pass rushers aren't even asked to diagnose anything. Shane Ray does nothing but try to get the QB.

To me, the simple fact that Dupree was put in situations often enough that he had to make reads puts him ahead of the curve. At least he has some experience dropping in coverage and doing things other than just rushing the QB.

 

[steelhurt]

I for one loved the pick of Bud Dupree and think this guy will be a star in the league. Lets be patient and at least wait until the team puts the pads on before we come to any conclusions. I'm excited to see how it shakes out on many of these defensive positions. I'm pulling for guys like Big Dan, Stephen Tuitt, Uncle Jarvis, Bud Dupree, Shazier, Shamarko, Cortez and Golsten whom I think will surprise a lot of folks. Patientence Grasshopers!

 

[Coach]

I didn't mind the criticism of Dupree. The main ones were lack of moves and slow to diagnose. Lack of moves applies to just about every college pass rusher, so that one isn't even a criticism to me. It's like saying a WR doesn't run great routes. Very few do so i consider it a positive if they do but not a negative if they don't.

The same goes for the criticism of slow to diagnose with a pass rusher. It is a concern if he's a Safety or a MLB, but not for a pass rusher. That's because once again, most college pass rushers aren't even asked to diagnose anything. Shane Ray does nothing but try to get the QB.

To me, the simple fact that Dupree was put in situations often enough that he had to make reads puts him ahead of the curve. At least he has some experience dropping in coverage and doing things other than just rushing the QB.

When was a last time a stud workout warrior ( With excellent size ) in the SEC who had solid production went this late in the draft? The Steelers either got a big time steal, or something about Dupree was a bit off. I have heard others say Durpee could be a little meaner, and is a bit slow diagnosing plays. A low wonderlic score ( 12 and 13 ) didn't help his stock either. While fans can focus on the times and drills, mental speed matters a lot. As they say the game happens much faster in the NFL.

I like Dupree a lot as a base 3-4 or 4-3 End in the nickel or dime as a run defender with some options on coverage, but its his pass rush we really need.

 

[Coach]

Adding some addional informaiton from Tape's inital post.

What does a good pass rush look like? Obviously sacks are the first thing people look at when talking about their pass rush, but QB pressures, and tipped passes at the line can help get a defense off the field too.

I don’t have access to QB pressures right now, but I do have data on sacks and passes defended from the 2014 season:


OLB 19 - Worilds 7.5 sacks, 2 pass defended, Harrison 5.5 sacks, 0 PD’s, Moats 4 sacks 0 PD’s, ,Jarvis Jones 2 sacks, 0 PD’s.

DL 11 - Heyward 7.5 sacks, 4 PD’s, Keisel 1 sack 5 PD’s, McLendon 1 sack, 0 Pd's, Tuitt 1 sack, 0 PD's, Cam Thomas .5 sacks, 0 PD's

ILB 3 - Timmons 2 sacks, 1 PD, , Spence 1 sack, 0 PD’s
DB 0 sacks. Not rating PD’s here.

Total 33 sacks.
Total Pass defended 13.

This is a very low number. When you factor in who we played, its even worse. The goal should be 50 sacks a year.

Looking at the break down, Worilds and Keisel are gone. -8.5 sacks
In fact I think Thomas will be cut in 2015. –9 Sacks.

The passes defensed will take a step backward as Keisel was very good at it, and Worlds adequate. - 7

In order to have a better pass rush in 2015, improvement from within is badly needed.

You have to think Tuitt can add a lot more than he did as a rookie. Let’s say he has 5 sacks ( 4 more than last season ), which would be very good for a 3-4 DE, we are still -4 sacks behind the low bar of 33 sacks for the season.

Dupree must make an impact as a pass rusher as a rookie. In addition. Harrison ( age 37 ) and Jones ( who’s been hurt a lot for a young player ) needs to stay healthy. Moats in intriguing, and could do better with more playing time, but with two #1 picks on the team that need to play, he might not get the snap count to be better I do believe a healthy Shazier can add a bit as a pass rusher and coverage player.

We’ll see how Butler calls the defense. With Brice McCain gone ( I read he had the best QB rating against among our DB’s ) , and 2-3 rookies’ defensive backs likely to play this season, I think Kevin Butler will need to be judicious when to send a 4th or 5th man on a blitz. As it stands now, I think the pass rush will be about as good or maybe just slightly better than it was in 2014 and we will have less passes defended from the front seven.

 

[Wingman]

I truly believe he will get better with coaching from the steelers. His speed and the fact that he was transitioning to a new role each year with the team should make him seem faster in the nfl because he will have been taught the position. It sounds like he was not taught the position or keys to playing the position at Kentucky. He will be given small parts of it to begin with and will be given more as he learns what was given to him in the previous load. By the end of the season I expect him to be competing for more snaps than just situational football, much the way Tuitt advanced last year. He may grow into his new spot faster or not we will see.

We may have been able to secure a couple of bookend linebackers in this draft with both Chick and Bud if they both develop the way they are expected to. Both had very good sparq scores and those are not dependent on the competition but are physical talents that do transfer to the next level. I expect Alvin to begin to flash some things early maybe an interception or two as he has really good hands and I think that might surprise some folks.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

When was a last time a stud workout warrior ( With excellent size ) in the SEC who had solid production went this late in the draft? The Steelers either got a big time steal, or something about Dupree was a bit off. I have heard others say Durpee could be a little meaner, and is a bit slow diagnosing plays. A low wonderlic score ( 12 and 13 ) didn't help his stock either. While fans can focus on the times and drills, mental speed matters a lot. As they say the game happens much faster in the NFL.

I like Dupree a lot as a base 3-4 or 4-3 End in the nickel or dime as a run defender with some options on coverage, but its his pass rush we really need.

And yet, this mentally slow man received a Bachelor's degree. Something that probably 75% of his draft mates did not accomplish during their time in college. You do understand that some people don't take standardized tests well don't you?Just as some people don't remember, or are habitually terrible at spelling even the simplest of names. Maybe "Durpee" is one of the former and you are one of the latter. Doesn't make either one of you mentally slow.

Oh, and Shane Ray of Missouri was a stud workout warrior from the SEC who had spectacular production and went later in the draft than "Durpee" this year.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

When was a last time a stud workout warrior ( With excellent size ) in the SEC who had solid production went this late in the draft? The Steelers either got a big time steal, or something about Dupree was a bit off. I have heard others say Durpee could be a little meaner, and is a bit slow diagnosing plays. A low wonderlic score ( 12 and 13 ) didn't help his stock either. While fans can focus on the times and drills, mental speed matters a lot. As they say the game happens much faster in the NFL.

I like Dupree a lot as a base 3-4 or 4-3 End in the nickel or dime as a run defender with some options on coverage, but its his pass rush we really need.

Interesting that you are concerned with Dupree's intelligence and then you predict him to be good at run stopping and coverage but struggle with pass rush. In other words, you are predicting him to be good at the the things that are more difficult mentally, while struggling with the easiest.

 

[ark steel]

And yet, this mentally slow man received a Bachelor's degree. Something that probably 75% of his draft mates did not accomplish during their time in college. You do understand that some people don't take standardized tests well don't you?Just as some people don't remember, or are habitually terrible at spelling even the simplest of names. Maybe "Durpee" is one of the former and you are one of the latter. Doesn't make either one of you mentally slow.

Oh, and Shane Ray of Missouri was a stud workout warrior from the SEC who had spectacular production and went later in the draft than "Durpee" this year.

While I don't think the attainment of a Bachelor's degree is any sign of intelligence (I know a lot of dumbasses with them), the manner in which Bud continued on to work hard and finish his degree when he didn't have to do so shows a character that will work hard to learn his position and that matters quite a bit, to me, anyway.

 

[Coach]

Interesting that you are concerned with Dupree's intelligence and then you predict him to be good at run stopping and coverage but struggle with pass rush. In other words, you are predicting him to be good at the the things that are more difficult mentally, while struggling with the easiest.

Dupree did well on raw ability. I think he's tough vs. the run because he's very big for a OLB in a 3-4 system and tall and fast enough to be an asset in coverage. None of that has to do with smarts. Smart to me is technique, reaction, instincts, knowing the defense etc...

Is Dupree a smart player? They said it. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/bud-dupree?id=2552289


STRENGTHS Freakish athlete with chiseled frame. Posted incredible 42-inch vertical leap and 4.56 40 at the combine while weighing 269 pounds. Outstanding power with ability to rag-doll tight ends at will. Should be an above average edge-setter. Good transition from playing run to rushing quarterback in play-action. Explosive closing burst. Willing thumper when he has a shot on running back. Can drop into space and play zone. Raw, but learning with huge growth potential as a player. Has strength at the point to be a physical edge-setter. Scouts give him plus grade for character.


WEAKNESSES Tall but not long. Wins with athleticism over skill at this point. Some scouts believe his instincts are below average, leading to hesitation. Will get caught taking bad angles to the ball. Needs to improve hand fighting. Still raw rushing the passer. Doesn't possess a go-to pass-rush move. Appears to lack urgency in-game.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1

SOURCES TELL US "He's a little slow to diagnose, which causes him to get a late start on plays. I would ask him to drop into space in zone dog looks and that's about it. To me, he's a pure see 'em, get 'em 3-4 rush end." -- NFC East regional scout

^^^ Okay, there you have it. If you factor in a low score of 12 and 13 on the wonderlic test, it increases doubts.