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Deflategate Investigation: Complete ... Awaiting Report.

Huh? They didn't press charges, but that's different than scientifically proving he didn't rape or assault her.

Part of the investigation determined that the bathroom she claimed it happened in wasnt physically big enough for two people to do what she claimed and how she claimed. that was done with math and physics. Thus science called her a liar... and there was no evidence at all in that particular case... yet a 4 game suspension was doled out...

i might also note that forensics is a science (well to most people) and that found a total absense of proof of the claim...
 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...-to-determine-brady-punishment-155357432.html

I'd love for the NFL to bring in an "independent, unbiased" party to rule on the punishment and they end up making it a harsher one...the only thing that could make this even better.

Also, isn't this something that was agreed upon as part of the CBA, that Goodell hands down punishments? How does the NFLPA have any leg to stand on with this argument?

Yes, he has this right per the CBA. Its why if they take it outside the NFL, the courts are going to ultimately dismiss this once its out of the boston area. Courts dont typically side with a union when the union specifically agreed to the thing they are objecting to in writing.

As for the harsher punishment, that not allowed. The NFL is one of the leagues that do not allow appeals to bring anything harsher than the initial punishment. Its why everyone alwyas appeals... there is no reason to worry about the punishment getting worse
 
It looks as if the appeal is based mostly on the idea that rodger cannot delegate the suspension ability per the CBA... they are trying to void rogers ability to hear the appeal, more or less.
 
So, the media is going crazy about the "scientific explanation for the deflation of footballs". Saw this over in the thread about Rookie Mini-Camp and thought it deserved to be here too:

Glad there's people out there doing some digging and calling the P*ts on their obvious cover up attempts.
 
I think Goodell is going to reduce the punishment to 2 games.

Just my opinion.
 
As long as he gets one game I don't really give a rat's ***
 
wait - I know - reduce Bell's suspension to 0 games for being honest and jack up Brady's to 8 games for being a dirty cheater!

ha ha

I want to see more Pats fans heads asploding!
 
Unfortunately, I agree that Goodell has put himself in a tough position. If he's taken Brady's agent and the Pat's criticisms personally and appointed himself to defend his position, they will likely lose and take this thing further and win the appeal, IMO.

The problem is, they haven't proved what they set out to prove in the original case. (due to discrepancies with keeping track of ball pressures and which gauge was used/when)

What they have uncovered though, through the course of the investigation is that there existed an established apparatus to deflate footballs. (doesn't matter to which degree they were intended to be deflated- i.e. the lower end of legal or below). The apparatus in this case was enabled and expected to deflate the balls to some degree AFTER the officials had checked them.

It's like trying a case against a murderer where you think he killed a certain person BUT couldn't prove it to the standard required BUT during the case of investigation found evidence that this person was guilty of robbing 3 stores and killing 3 other people. You still lose the case you are trying. You do open up the opportunity to try those other cases but lose the one you set out to charge.

In this case, the NFL was trying to charge someone(s) within the Pat's organization of an organized effort to lower the ball pressure to below the 12.5# threshold. I don't think they did that. What they did do was expose a larger scandal and internal operation to deflate balls to "A" pressure that was lower than what was recorded before the games "should it be deemed necessary to give TB what he wanted". Clearly a guy being compensated for calling himself the deflator is enough evidence of proof to make this stick. Also, Brady's own words have indicted him as well because he has been recorded stating how he likes the ball at a lower pressure. (regardless of whether it is still in the legal range)

Goodell may likely have to find a "sweet spot" to lower the punishment to a degree where Shady will drop his effort to take the case to a higher court with his attorneys.

In my estimate, a reduction to 2 games AND the elimination of the #1 draft pick forfeiture might do this. If Goodell sticks to his guns, this thing will go to a higher court action and Shady will be allowed to play until it is resolved, most likely.
 
I think Goodell is going to reduce the punishment to 2 games.

Just my opinion.

Honestly, I think that was the plan all the time, just like I think the Pats fine will be lowered to 500K. legally he can only impose that amount... he fined them 500Kx2 for two supposed infractions this time. Make it higher, bring it down on the inevitable appeal
 
Honestly, I think that was the plan all the time, just like I think the Pats fine will be lowered to 500K. legally he can only impose that amount... he fined them 500Kx2 for two supposed infractions this time. Make it higher, bring it down on the inevitable appeal

I know I'm alone on this, but I'm fine with that.

I'm of the opinion this is not so much about Brady as much as it's about the Patriots and taking away their 1st round pick is pretty significant. I know if that happened to the Steelers, I would be bitching about the 1st round pick a lot more than a Roethlisberger suspension.

I mean if you're a good enough team to win the Super Bowl, going 2-2 without your starting QB should be doable. And getting your QB back for the remainder of the season and into the playoffs is really all that matters.

Losing a 1st round draft pick is HARSH punishment to me. Those should be SIGNIFICANT underpaid contributors to your team and losing even one out of the cycle of rooking contracts is important to your teams competitive well being.

I stated on page 7 of this thread my punishment and if Brady gets 2 games (after appeal), I will have been almost dead on.

Obviously I opined a $5 million fine to the Patriots vs. a $1 million fine. I guess $5 million is unprecedented in the league, but to me that type of fine is reasonable for a business that has $300+ million in revenues and $30-35 million in gross profits per year. I mean $1 million was the fine for salary cap violations in the mid-90's and revenue/franchise values have quadrupled since then but fines to owners apparently have not.

I also still believe Belichick should have been reprimanded in some way under the "Ignorance is not an excuse/under my watch" statement used to punish Sean Payton in Boutygate. You have to stay consistent and when you aren't you open yourself up to litigation.
 
I know I'm alone on this, but I'm fine with that.

I'm of the opinion this is not so much about Brady as much as it's about the Patriots and taking away their 1st round pick is pretty significant. I know if that happened to the Steelers, I would be bitching about the 1st round pick a lot more than a Roethlisberger suspension.

I mean if you're a good enough team to win the Super Bowl, going 2-2 without your starting QB should be doable. And getting your QB back for the remainder of the season and into the playoffs is really all that matters.

Losing a 1st round draft pick is HARSH punishment to me. Those should be SIGNIFICANT underpaid contributors to your team and losing even one out of the cycle of rooking contracts is important to your teams competitive well being.

I stated on page 7 of this thread my punishment and if Brady gets 2 games (after appeal), I will have been almost dead on.

Obviously I opined a $5 million fine to the Patriots vs. a $1 million fine. I guess $5 million is unprecedented in the league, but to me that type of fine is reasonable for a business that has $300+ million in revenues and $30-35 million in gross profits per year. I mean $1 million was the fine for salary cap violations in the mid-90's and revenue/franchise values have quadrupled since then but fines to owners apparently have not.

I also still believe Belichick should have been reprimanded in some way under the "Ignorance is not an excuse/under my watch" statement used to punish Sean Payton in Boutygate. You have to stay consistent and when you aren't you open yourself up to litigation.

I too would have liked to see Belicheat punished but as I have said, he is maybe the only smart one up there besides Ernie. Payton's case was a bit different as he was accused of denying the bounty program existed (even after finding out that it did) and trying to cover it up through certain conversations with his staff. Here is an excerpt from the ESPN article about his suspension:
According to the league, Payton ignored instructions from the NFL and Saints ownership to make sure bounties weren't being paid. The league also chastised him for choosing to "falsely deny that the program existed," and for trying to "encourage the false denials by instructing assistants to 'make sure our ducks are in a row.' "

Billy knew this would be a bad approach and instead denied knowledge without giving the impression of trying to cover it up. He went so far as to try to explain that HE organized some exercises/experiments which would scientifically explain away the deflation, staying away from Shady's explanation of the events.

Now IF Shady turns over his texts and emails and Billy is involved in the discussion of how they are going to "line up their ducks" and respond...he is exposing himself to the Payton suspension. Maybe worse for him because of him being a "repeat offender".

The only thing Goodell MAY have going for him is IF he has some skeletons leftover from the "spygate" situation. If he knows where the bones are buried (so to speak), he will come down and uphold the current punishment, otherwise, he will try to mitigate (which is more likely) and come up with a reduction so that Shady and the team only get charged with failure to cooperate fully and a tacit admission that the case is not strong enough to punish for knowingly breaking NFL rules, IMO.
 
I'm tired of the whole thing already. Who really cares anymore? The Pat's cheating and Goodell's fining have changed the game forever.....and it isnt a good change. So **** the pats**** and **** Goodell.

That felt good. :)
 
I too would have liked to see Belicheat punished but as I have said, he is maybe the only smart one up there besides Ernie. Payton's case was a bit different as he was accused of denying the bounty program existed (even after finding out that it did) and trying to cover it up through certain conversations with his staff. Here is an excerpt from the ESPN article about his suspension:
According to the league, Payton ignored instructions from the NFL and Saints ownership to make sure bounties weren't being paid. The league also chastised him for choosing to "falsely deny that the program existed," and for trying to "encourage the false denials by instructing assistants to 'make sure our ducks are in a row.' "

Billy knew this would be a bad approach and instead denied knowledge without giving the impression of trying to cover it up. He went so far as to try to explain that HE organized some exercises/experiments which would scientifically explain away the deflation, staying away from Shady's explanation of the events.

Now IF Shady turns over his texts and emails and Billy is involved in the discussion of how they are going to "line up their ducks" and respond...he is exposing himself to the Payton suspension. Maybe worse for him because of him being a "repeat offender".

The only thing Goodell MAY have going for him is IF he has some skeletons leftover from the "spygate" situation. If he knows where the bones are buried (so to speak), he will come down and uphold the current punishment, otherwise, he will try to mitigate (which is more likely) and come up with a reduction so that Shady and the team only get charged with failure to cooperate fully and a tacit admission that the case is not strong enough to punish for knowingly breaking NFL rules, IMO.

Well, that's why he got 16 games, which is unprecedented and extremely harsh (even looking back at it). The whole Bountygate situation also had to do with player safety (at a time player safety was getting scrutiny beyond belief).

If something similar to Deflategate or Spygate ever happens to be a significant competitive advantage that changes the outcome of a game, then I could see a public outcry and punishment to Bountygate, but I just don't think there is quite the agreement in football circles (unlike here) that Deflategate and Spygate influenced wins/losses that much (if at all).
 
Losing a 1st round draft pick is HARSH punishment to me. Those should be SIGNIFICANT underpaid contributors to your team and losing even one out of the cycle of rooking contracts is important to your teams competitive well being.

I don't see it that way. Last year, the Pats had 4 out of 22 starters that were their first rounders, the latest coming from 2011, Solder. Now, while nobody wants or likes to a lose a first rounder, they are still in fine shape for next year. They currently still have 7 picks next year because they will get an additional 6th or 7th rounder from the Mallet trade. Now, they will also add to that what will probably be some sizable compensatory picks from losing: Revis, Wilfork, Vereen and Ayers. Over the Cap currently has them projected as receiving one 3rd rounder for Revis and three more 6th rounders for the others. If they want to get back up into the first round, they'll make it happen. And even if they don't, they're still fine anyway. This team is known for taking guys from anywhere and molding them into their schemes. To me, the only way the league could have seriously hurt them next season is for Bill to have sat some games. Everything else on their end can be worked around. Brady may get the reduction, but regardless he's missing time from what is, at the moment, the easiest schedule in the whole league this coming season. And Kr*ft cares not about that million bucks.
 
Well, that's why he got 16 games, which is unprecedented and extremely harsh (even looking back at it). The whole Bountygate situation also had to do with player safety (at a time player safety was getting scrutiny beyond belief).

If something similar to Deflategate or Spygate ever happens to be a significant competitive advantage that changes the outcome of a game, then I could see a public outcry and punishment to Bountygate, but I just don't think there is quite the agreement in football circles (unlike here) that Deflategate and Spygate influenced wins/losses that much (if at all).

Ultimately when you compare punishments from Goodell... and I mean everything since he got in, there really is no rhyme or reason... its almost entirely on the agenda and PR of the moment... that being said this wasn't a goodell suspension, this was Troy Vincent with other input... and I think its notable that the Pats don't really have fans within the players at the moment... they have a harsh rep that goes well beyond pushing the envelope once or twice in a decade, and I think this suspension is a reflection of that.
 
Brady will fight this thing all the way through the beginning of the season. You might as well prepare yourselves to see him on the field for game 1, even if his court case is ongoing. The course of action seems to be that after losing the appeal, he/his legal team will file for relief in Federal Court and seek an injunction against implementing the suspension until his case is either heard or denied.
 
Brady will fight this thing all the way through the beginning of the season. You might as well prepare yourselves to see him on the field for game 1, even if his court case is ongoing. The course of action seems to be that after losing the appeal, he/his legal team will file for relief in Federal Court and seek an injunction against implementing the suspension until his case is either heard or denied.

I don't disagree with this.

This attempt at discipline might be so over-reaching that it eventually starts to topple the whole Goodell regime, for good or bad.
 
I don't disagree with this.

This attempt at discipline might be so over-reaching that it eventually starts to topple the whole Goodell regime, for good or bad.

I would take Goodell getting the boot over a Brady suspension. And I really dislike Brady.
 
Part of the investigation determined that the bathroom she claimed it happened in wasnt physically big enough for two people to do what she claimed and how she claimed. that was done with math and physics. Thus science called her a liar... and there was no evidence at all in that particular case... yet a 4 game suspension was doled out...

i might also note that forensics is a science (well to most people) and that found a total absense of proof of the claim...

Anyone who read through the publicly released evidence came to the conclusion that the physical evidence didn't support any charges....good summary!
 
NOT FOUND:.

my bad


Q: Can Brady win a reduction in the suspension or eliminate the suspension entirely?

A: No. The evidence gathered by attorney Ted Wells for the NFL's investigation is clear and convincing. The text messages between Brady and two Patriots staffers, the disappearance of the Patriots' footballs in the moments before kickoff, the history of similar incidents involving Brady and Brady's stonewalling of the NFL investigators lead to only one conclusion: Brady was clearly involved in an effort to underinflate the footballs to give him a competitive edge.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate
 
I think Brady should be gone for at least six games.

I hate the New Orleans Saints for personal reasons but I think they got hosed on the suspension Sean Peyton received behind the Bounty scandal. The NFL said that even though the investigation showed that Peyton didn't know about the defensive coaches offering bounties, they were suspending Peyton based on the fact that he was the head coach and held ultimate responsibility for what went on in the Saints locker room. If that is the case for the Saints and their head coach why is it not the case for the Cheatriots? Why does Belicheat get a pass where Peyton did not? Belicheat should be gone for the year for the reason that the NFL set the precedent that was set in the suspension of Sean Peyton. Peyton has the ultimate responsibility for his locker room but Belicheat gets away clean, I don't want to say the fix is in but RogerDoger isn't best friends with the Saints owner.
 
I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion. We hate the Cheatriots, I do and so does 90% of our fans but truth be told, every team takes every advantage they can get away with whenever they can. It's a fact of life in all competitive arenas that something extra is needed or you risk stagnating results. My VP once told me that if my delivery trucks didn't get an overweight ticket on occasion, I wasn't trying. (to maximize the loads), so I took that to mean a certain amount of extra curricular effort is to be expected in business, within moral limitations that is.

Some "cheating is worse than others but in reality it's all just part of the game.

If you need more proof, check out this site....http://yourteamcheats.com/

According to these guys, we are way bigger cheaters that the Pats...their grade, not mine !
 
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