Cowherd Roasts Tomlin Nuthugger

[Vader]

And again...you don't know either. Cowher's history of trotting out the QB's he did without ever trying to truly upgrade the position is where I believe he didn't value the QB position. Pretty simple actually. That is MY stance. Am I correct? Maybe. Maybe not. As far as Cowher wanting Andrews over Ben? The articles I read back then stated that. Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not. While I don't know the actual truth neither do you. So All I am stating as I stated before is that this is MY opinion.

But your opinion totally disregards facts that you don't like. IF Cowher didn't value the position then why did he want Rivers? It makes no sense. My opinion is based on 4 things:

1. Cowher was willing to draft a QB high. Even Ben because he was in the discussion and Cowher had a ton of power and could have drafted him if he wanted him.

2. Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 years, Kordell started most of 6 and Ben started 3. That's almost 13 years with young QBs. At the time everyone loved Kordell. I had arguments everyday on here with people that would have bitched if Cowher had drafted a QB while Kordell was still here. The owner loved him, the fans loved him, my guess is you loved him.

3. Tell me the QB you would have drafted and when without massive hindsight. He never had the chance to draft a QB very high because they mostly sucked. If he had drafted Kyle Boller over Troy would that be better? Maybe he could evaluate QBs pretty well and knew these guys weren't that good?

4. Your entire opinion is based on what you think Cowher felt. Nobody can know that. My opinion is based on what everyone knows and is easily seen. Again Cowher had a power struggle with Donahoe. Cowher could draft whoever he wanted. If you are right then if Cowher really wanted Andrews then Andrews would have been drafted. That isn't my opinion. That's fact because the entire issue with Donahoe was the draft. Cowher wasn't going to stay if he couldn't have more input over the draft after the Edwards disaster. Which is why Rooney says that he didn't tell them to draft Ben. He just steered the conversation back around.

 

[stillwright]

But your opinion totally disregards facts that you don't like. IF Cowher didn't value the position then why did he want Rivers? It makes no sense. My opinion is based on 4 things:

1. Cowher was willing to draft a QB high. Even Ben because he was in the discussion and Cowher had a ton of power and could have drafted him if he wanted him.

2. Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 years, Kordell started most of 6 and Ben started 3. That's almost 13 years with young QBs. At the time everyone loved Kordell. I had arguments everyday on here with people that would have bitched if Cowher had drafted a QB while Kordell was still here. The owner loved him, the fans loved him, my guess is you loved him.

3. Tell me the QB you would have drafted and when without massive hindsight. He never had the chance to draft a QB very high because they mostly sucked. If he had drafted Kyle Boller over Troy would that be better? Maybe he could evaluate QBs pretty well and knew these guys weren't that good?

4. Your entire opinion is based on what you think Cowher felt. Nobody can know that. My opinion is based on what everyone knows and is easily seen. Again Cowher had a power struggle with Donahoe. Cowher could draft whoever he wanted. If you are right then if Cowher really wanted Andrews then Andrews would have been drafted. That isn't my opinion. That's fact because the entire issue with Donahoe was the draft. Cowher wasn't going to stay if he couldn't have more input over the draft after the Edwards disaster. Which is why Rooney says that he didn't tell them to draft Ben. He just steered the conversation back around.

LOL. You got me. So for first 9/10th of his coaching career he devalued theQB. Then maybe he saw how he came up a tad short every year.

 

[JMM]

We were always seeking that healthy balance between run and pass. Never could attain it until BB and then probably got too pass oriented after Cowher left, IMO.

O'Donnell was a perfect fit for that style. Usually made the passes when he had to and generally kept us on the plus side of the turnover ratio. Would have been great to have BB for that pass to Foster against SD and in SB XXX, but he would have been a little too green.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Where's the proof?

Here's a fact. 04-06 Cowher won 5 postseason games with Ben. Tomlin 10-19 has won 3 postseasons with Ben.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/04/14/dan-rooney-convinced-bill-cowher-to-draft-ben-roethlisberger/

I guess it was extrapolated from Rooney's comments.

 

[Coryea]

Dan Rooney himself said he didn't force them to pick Ben.


Again everyone says Cowher didn't do anything to upgrade the QB position. Who should he have taken? He can't just snap his fingers and get Manning.
He tried to get Marino in 1999.


Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[stillwright]

Dan Rooney himself said he didn't force them to pick Ben.


Again everyone says Cowher didn't do anything to upgrade the QB position. Who should he have taken? He can't just snap his fingers and get Manning.
He tried to get Marino in 1999.


Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

LOL....Did you read that? They were ready to pick Andrews. And while Dan didn't force them to take Ben if he didn't speak up they would have taken Andrews and PASSED on Ben.

 

[stillwright]

Dan Rooney himself said he didn't force them to pick Ben.


Again everyone says Cowher didn't do anything to upgrade the QB position. Who should he have taken? He can't just snap his fingers and get Manning.
He tried to get Marino in 1999.


Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Well Chad Pennington was passed over. That, of course, is the easy one to point out. Instead, Cowher went WR.

 

[stillwright]

And as far as not Cowher valuing QB's. Why would Cowher state that if a QB is available we should give it serious thought if he valued the position? We didn't have a franchise QB in Maddox. It should have been a no brainer to draft any of three.

 

[SteelerFan448]

And as far as not Cowher valuing QB's. Why would Cowher state that if a QB is available we should give it serious thought if he valued the position? We didn't have a franchise QB in Maddox. It should have been a no brainer to draft any of three.

Coaches are in the business of winning now. If you have roster constructed to contend for a Super Bowl and you can add another position to help you achieve that, you weigh your options. Roethlisberger was the most raw of the top three and it was thought he'd need time to develop.

Beyond anything, this whole thing is a dumb argument and completely irrelevant to anything that's going on right now.

 

[Xc944]

Well Chad Pennington was passed over. That, of course, is the easy one to point out. Instead, Cowher went WR.

Noodle arm chad Pennington lmfao yeah he had a great career. Everyone on here whines non stop Brady doesn’t throw more than 10’de down the field. Noodle arm couldn’t throw more than 5

 

[Vader]

And as far as not Cowher valuing QB's. Why would Cowher state that if a QB is available we should give it serious thought if he valued the position? We didn't have a franchise QB in Maddox. It should have been a no brainer to draft any of three.

So if he said "We should give it serious thought if a WR comes available" then that means he doesn't value the WR position? It's ridiculous on its face. You just read into sentences things you want to be true without any evidence. Again you don't argue any of my points. You just point out that you believe something because you read something into a sentence someone said. Again Cowher had O'Donnell his first 4 years. They tried to re-sign him but couldn't. Cowher's first 9 or 10 years he was always having to draft to fill holes left in FA. He couldn't sign high end FAs.

4 years- O'Donnell
6 years- Kordell (whom most loved)
3 years- Ben

That's 13 years with 2 QBs that made the SB and 1 QB won a SB and another QB made it to the AFCC game. Chad Pennington? Are you kidding? His W/L record is almost identical to Kordell. That's what you wanted? I'm starting to think you don't value the QB position much.

 

[slashsteel]

LOL. You got me. So for first 9/10th of his coaching career he devalued theQB. Then maybe he saw how he came up a tad short every year.

They thought they had something with Kordell. It didn't work out. O'Donnell was good enough to win with, it didn't work out. It wasn't Cowher devalued the QB position it just didn't turn out like they hoped.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[stillwright]

So if he said "We should give it serious thought if a WR comes available" then that means he doesn't value the WR position? It's ridiculous on its face. You just read into sentences things you want to be true without any evidence. Again you don't argue any of my points. You just point out that you believe something because you read something into a sentence someone said. Again Cowher had O'Donnell his first 4 years. They tried to re-sign him but couldn't. Cowher's first 9 or 10 years he was always having to draft to fill holes left in FA. He couldn't sign high end FAs.

4 years- O'Donnell
6 years- Kordell (whom most loved)
3 years- Ben

That's 13 years with 2 QBs that made the SB and 1 QB won a SB and another QB made it to the AFCC game. Chad Pennington? Are you kidding? His W/L record is almost identical to Kordell. That's what you wanted? I'm starting to think you don't value the QB position much.

Jesus ******* Christ dude. I don't agree with you. Now you have others nut hugging your posts. First, you and Coryea tried to get me wrapped up in your Cowher/Tomlin angle. **** Tomlin and **** Cowher. A bunch of you all need to move on past Cowher. The man left and isn't coming back. You are stuck with Tomlin for a while longer. Nobody likes that but it is what it is.

 

[stillwright]

They thought they had something with Kordell. It didn't work out. O'Donnell was good enough to win with, it didn't work out. It wasn't Cowher devalued the QB position it just didn't turn out like they hoped.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

Cowher brought in a bunch of horrible FA QB's and stuck with mediocre QB's that he drafted longer than he should have. We had a great running game when a running game was valued. A great defense to compliment the run-first offense. I am not saying that Cowher devalued the QB position as a knock on him. He had a winning culture theway he made up his teams. He got us to a bunch of AFC championships. We just couldn't seem to get over the hump. Then we drafted Ben...whom it is arguable that Cowher would have rather taken Andrews. I conceed that if Rivers was there he would have taken him. He just didn't put Ben at the same level as Rivers. Dan had to steer them back to Ben.

 

[stillwright]

Noodle arm chad Pennington lmfao yeah he had a great career. Everyone on here whines non stop Brady doesn’t throw more than 10’de down the field. Noodle arm couldn’t throw more than 5

LMAO.. Just because someone's career fizzled out with another team doesn't mean it would have if they were here with the Steelers. If the Browns drafted Ben where do you think that would have taken his career? Maybe he would have turned that franchise around. Or maybe he would have ended up like most of their first-round QB picks.

 

[Vader]

Jesus ******* Christ dude. I don't agree with you. Now you have others nut hugging your posts. First, you and Coryea tried to get me wrapped up in your Cowher/Tomlin angle. **** Tomlin and **** Cowher. A bunch of you all need to move on past Cowher. The man left and isn't coming back. You are stuck with Tomlin for a while longer. Nobody likes that but it is what it is.

You posted to me first. IT's a message board so people post. I'm pretty sure you've agreed with other on the board and said so. You don't like it now because you aren't getting enough love. Not my fault. You need to move past Cowher as well since you were talking about him as well. But I guess it's ok for you to talk about the past but not everyone else? Riiiiight....

Also Cowher had to bring in bad FA QBs because the Steelers didn't have the money to sign top FAs. They couldn't even keep the FAs they had most of the time. Maybe you need to go back and read up on the Steelers post 2001. Also who are these great FA QBs you wanted to bring in? Please name a few.

I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

 

[SteelerFan448]

I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

Speaking of that first-round grade on Rudolph. I don't believe that for a second. No way do you pass on a QB twice that you have a first-round grade on.

 

[chipped ham]

Over the years, I have read that Cowher never had a QB until Ben. Well, whose fault is that? I guess you could blame Donahoe, but reality is, Cowher it seems never really placed a premium on the position. Surely he could have found QB's better than O'Donnell, Tomczak, Maddox and Kordell.

Come on. That dog won't hunt.

Especially when you consider how pissed most are around here for how this past year went. Most are bitching about the lack of a back-up qb, but then point to “Cowher not having a qb during his time here!” One is responsible for his mess, but the other is not? I’m not rallying behind Tomlin either, just wanting to point out a bit of the hypocrisy when this is brought up.

 

[Vader]

Especially when you consider how pissed most are around here for how this past year went. Most are bitching about the lack of a back-up qb, but then point to “Cowher not having a qb during his time here!” One is responsible for his mess, but the other is not? I’m not rallying behind Tomlin either, just wanting to point out a bit of the hypocrisy when this is brought up.

What's more hypocritical is when people compare Tomlin who has always had a HOF QB, no worries in FA, and keep the former coaches players around for years being compared to Cowher who had all those issues and then some. Again, for the 100 time. Cowher had to fill in an entire roster with draft picks and low level FAs because the Steelers couldn't afford their own players. Plus there were NO QBs to draft most of the time unless you wanted Chad "I have the same winning % as Kordell" Pennington. And again like I said before most people didn't want to draft a QB high during most of his time because they had either O'Donnell or the heir apparent in Kordell. There were really only a few years that Cowher could even justify drafting a QB early... and there were none to draft then.

Tomlin knew Ben was getting older. He put the 1st round grade on Rudolph not the fans. He went into the season without a Charlie Batch type QB to backup his aging starter. He's never even had to think about a QB before. Never had to worry about FA. Never had to deal with anything... and this is what we get? 10 years with 3 playoff wins and not even a backup QB?

 

[Coryea]

The funniest thing is from 94-03(before Ben) Cowher won 7 postseason games with guys like Neil, Kordell, and Maddox. Tomlin has had a franchise QB for his entire career and he's won 8 postseason games.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[slashsteel]

I don't always agree with Vader but he has been ripping it up lately in his assessments IMO. I think free agency should take on the title, " no more excuses". Tombert needs to make the right off-season decisions or GTFO. We need a RB(draft),vet QB, G or RT(free agency) depending if the move Feiler. Depth at S and WR(draft). Extend some contracts.And bring in a new punter.(draft) Dupree and Finney need resigned. PS: Tombert get to work.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steelmann]

I don't always agree with Vader but he has been ripping it up lately in his assessments IMO. I think free agency should take on the title, " no more excuses". Tombert needs to make the right off-season decisions or GTFO. We need a RB(draft),vet QB, G or RT(free agency) depending if the move Feiler. Depth at S and WR(draft). Extend some contracts.And bring in a new punter.(draft) Dupree and Finney need resigned. PS: Tombert get to work.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to chuckle at a few things in this discussion. Vader,you are like my old black lab looking for his bone. Looking for me to throw the bouncy ball. You won’t give in....not even a little. Not that I blame you. I agree with most. That one little quote above.....look at the **** storm it created when the FO drafted Rudy. Do you not remember the little hissy fit Ben had when they drafted him? Maybe their hands were tied a bit.
Not that I am a Tomlin apologist. I have stated many times,I saw the writing on the wall after the Tebow disaster in the playoffs. How long ago was that? His inability to adjust on the fly is his downfall.

Now I know these conversations about Coach Mike vs Coach Bill will go on and on. Vader,Slash were you on this board during coach Bill’s tenure? It was the same conversation. Except it was Coach Chuck vs Coach Bill. As much as everyone says they love Bill now, this board was screaming for Bill to get fired. Their were tons of disappointments. People were sick of his conservative play calling, the lack of a real QB. Vader posted a couple times here that most of the board loved Stewart. I say Bull **** to that. They didn’t. Most would have rather had him as a WR,once in a while gadget like NO does with Hill. He had one great year,and much like the RG3 situation,the league figured him out quickly.
The opportunity and patience shown to him was frigging ridiculous. With our D back then,it cost us championships as well.

Also with the drafting Rivers comments from back then. We were QB starved. Most on the board wanted Rivers and yes as stated a few ,especially TMC hated his quirky delivery. Thought all his balls thrown would be knocked down and his delivery was too slow. But he was not an instant top 10 QB. A lot of us thought if we were really lucky he would be there for us in the 3rd,but most were willing to settle for him in the 2nd round. Then a funny thing happened like it does with some players,he started shooting up the draft charts. The media loved him. All of a sudden we would be lucky if we even could get him with our first. The Chargers fell in love with him. Big Ben wasn’t even really being considered by us,because we all knew he would be long gone. Let’s not act like it was a stroke of genius by Rooney or Bill,or anybody in the FO. We got lucky......he fell in to our laps. But at least we grabbed him.......there are some other teams that sure wish they had.

Just a little trip down memory lane.

 

[slashsteel]

I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to chuckle at a few things in this discussion. Vader,you are like my old black lab looking for his bone. Looking for me to throw the bouncy ball. You won’t give in....not even a little. Not that I blame you. I agree with most. That one little quote above.....look at the **** storm it created when the FO drafted Rudy. Do you not remember the little hissy fit Ben had when they drafted him? Maybe their hands were tied a bit.
Not that I am a Tomlin apologist. I have stated many times,I saw the writing on the wall after the Tebow disaster in the playoffs. How long ago was that? His inability to adjust on the fly is his downfall.

Now I know these conversations about Coach Mike vs Coach Bill will go on and on. Vader,Slash were you on this board during coach Bill’s tenure? It was the same conversation. Except it was Coach Chuck vs Coach Bill. As much as everyone says they love Bill now, this board was screaming for Bill to get fired. Their were tons of disappointments. People were sick of his conservative play calling, the lack of a real QB. Vader posted a couple times here that most of the board loved Stewart. I say Bull **** to that. They didn’t. Most would have rather had him as a WR,once in a while gadget like NO does with Hill. He had one great year,and much like the RG3 situation,the league figured him out quickly.
The opportunity and patience shown to him was frigging ridiculous. With our D back then,it cost us championships as well.

Also with the drafting Rivers comments from back then. We were QB starved. Most on the board wanted Rivers and yes as stated a few ,especially TMC hated his quirky delivery. Thought all his balls thrown would be knocked down and his delivery was too slow. But he was not an instant top 10 QB. A lot of us thought if we were really lucky he would be there for us in the 3rd,but most were willing to settle for him in the 2nd round. Then a funny thing happened like it does with some players,he started shooting up the draft charts. The media loved him. All of a sudden we would be lucky if we even could get him with our first. The Chargers fell in love with him. Big Ben wasn’t even really being considered by us,because we all knew he would be long gone. Let’s not act like it was a stroke of genius by Rooney or Bill,or anybody in the FO. We got lucky......he fell in to our laps. But at least we grabbed him.......there are some other teams that sure wish they had.

Just a little trip down memory lane.

I was a floater. I was here but it was mostly a pop in and out poster. As I was on multiple Steelers message boards. I agree that they loved Kordell as slash but it was a mixed bag early at QB with fans ....his INTs did him no favors. He was more interested in the money attached to the QB position and that is straight from the horses mouth. A shame as he was an attractive slash. This site was a lot more aggressive back then. It is an older gentler kinder crowd now.[emoji16] I remember looking around the web and you couldn't find cheat fans. It was us faiders and cowgirl fans and clown fans...I imagine cheat fans will go back to watching college ball once Burtacheat and Ernie depart.....

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[stillwright]

You posted to me first. IT's a message board so people post. I'm pretty sure you've agreed with other on the board and said so. You don't like it now because you aren't getting enough love. Not my fault. You need to move past Cowher as well since you were talking about him as well. But I guess it's ok for you to talk about the past but not everyone else? Riiiiight....

Also Cowher had to bring in bad FA QBs because the Steelers didn't have the money to sign top FAs. They couldn't even keep the FAs they had most of the time. Maybe you need to go back and read up on the Steelers post 2001. Also who are these great FA QBs you wanted to bring in? Please name a few.

I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

And some how you swing this whole thing back to Tomlin. Crazy. Again. My opinion on Cowher devaluing the QB could be wrong but we are both just speculating. You know as much as I do on the I sides of how Cowher ran his club. Now twist this into a Tomlin discussion somehow. All I did was mention.

 

[Coryea]

The NFL now is a passing league, in the 90's it was built around the defense and running game. Marino and Kelly great QBs never won a damn thing, Elway didn't win until they had the best running game in football. Neil had the lowest int% in the history of the NFL, not sure if he retired that way. At what point did you know we needed better than Neil with that defense and running game?
Kordell was the talk of the entire NFL in 1997, ESPN commercials supposed to be the next big thing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app