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Cowherd Roasts Tomlin Nuthugger

Again. I am not arguing the whole Tomlin vs Cowher angle you and a few are. I could care less. If you look at Cowher built teams it is clear to me he devalued the QB position. Just how I see it. Obviously you see it differently and want to shout about Tomlin's record with Ben vs Cowher's. Blah blah blah. **** Tomlin and **** the whole Cowher/Tomlin comparison anymore. **** is ******* old. I remember when everyone on here was shouting to fire Cowher also. Now he is some Saint. Time to move on from him dude. Hopefully we move on from Tomlin soon also. A little dream I believe a bunch on thois board ALL have.

All I was saying is if the excuse is gonna be that Cowher never had a QB, then he is the guy to blame. He was in control of that. I'm not comparing Tomlin and Cowher because there is no comparison. If they fired Tomlin tomorrow, I would instantly have more optimism involving the future of the Pittsburgh Steelers than I do right now.
 
All I was saying is if the excuse is gonna be that Cowher never had a QB, then he is the guy to blame. He was in control of that. I'm not comparing Tomlin and Cowher because there is no comparison. If they fired Tomlin tomorrow, I would instantly have more optimism involving the future of the Pittsburgh Steelers than I do right now.
Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, how come Noll couldn't get a QB after Bradshaw? It's not easy that's why. Again look where we drafted under Cowher and tell me where we screwed up and passed on a good QB. And tell me at what point did we know we wouldn't win with Neil?

Point remains, Tomlin has had and inherited a franchise HOF QB his entire career, how many coaches can say that?

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Point remains, Bill Cowher is responsible for the QB's he had.
 
Point remains, Bill Cowher is responsible for the QB's he had.
Yeah you can keep saying that, but who was there to draft? To sign? I mean he couldn't just say hey Green Bay give me Favre. Free agency just started then, the Steelers couldn't sign their own players how were they going to sign any free agent QB, hell Neil O'Donnell signed a big deal after blowing the Super Bowl.

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Yeah you can keep saying that, but who was there to draft? To sign? I mean he couldn't just say hey Green Bay give me Favre. Free agency just started then, the Steelers couldn't sign their own players how were they going to sign any free agent QB, hell Neil O'Donnell signed a big deal after blowing the Super Bowl.

It was also during an era where pretty much every franchise QB had to be selected near the top of the draft. There also weren't many elite level QBs in the league.
 
Point remains, Bill Cowher is responsible for the QB's he had.

Regardless of how he viewed the QB position, he was ONLY one puzzle piece short........................CAN you ever say that about a CMVLT coached team ?



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He could have drafted Chad Pennington. No Pennington wasn’t a world beater, but I would have taken him over Kordell, Tomczak, O’Donnell, or any of the other stiffs he trotted out there.

But I will say this. I understand why he didn’t Draft Pennington. They had drafted Kordell in the 2nd round in 1995, and Cowher was enamored with him. They could have grabbed Mark Brunnell as well. Look his philosophy apparently was to have a game manager that wouldn’t kill you, run the ball and play excellent defense. For most of his tenure, the Steelers did that.

Suggesting that Cowher never had a chance to draft an upgrade is inaccurate.
 
He could have drafted Chad Pennington. No Pennington wasn’t a world beater, but I would have taken him over Kordell, Tomczak, O’Donnell, or any of the other stiffs he trotted out there.

But I will say this. I understand why he didn’t Draft Pennington. They had drafted Kordell in the 2nd round in 1995, and Cowher was enamored with him. They could have grabbed Mark Brunnell as well. Look his philosophy apparently was to have a game manager that wouldn’t kill you, run the ball and play excellent defense. For most of his tenure, the Steelers did that.

Suggesting that Cowher never had a chance to draft an upgrade is inaccurate.
One guy, who was a so so QB to begin with and Brunell who was drafted in the 5th round of the 93 draft and passed over by multiple teams multiple times.
Cowher must've been one hell of a coach to coach those stiffs to one less playoff victory than Tomlin has down with a franchise QB.

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I wouldn't call Kordell and O'Donnell stiffs. Both gave us good stretches of play. Neither turned out like we wanted I get it. Don't get why fans feel the need to trash players that weren't exactly garbage. Both led their teams to winning seasons. In fact Kordell and Chad had each four seasons that their wins were more than their losses. O'Donnell has 6. I see a lot of Kordell dissing from fans but the Steelers had far worse QBs. But by all means ******* trash away.

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One guy, who was a so so QB to begin with and Brunell who was drafted in the 5th round of the 93 draft and passed over by multiple teams multiple times.
Cowher must've been one hell of a coach to coach those stiffs to one less playoff victory than Tomlin has down with a franchise QB.

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You asked, and I figured you would discount it. Whatever. Cowher is responsible for the QB’s he had, like it or not. Pennington would have been an upgrade over Kordell. No, Pennington wasn’t great, but neither were any of the guys the Steelers were trotting out.

O’Donnell is suddenly a hero even though he was a pariah after the SB. I would take Cowher over Tomlin all day every day and twice on Sunday. Doesn’t change the fact he is responsible for the QB’s that were on his teams.

I’m done with this because it is truly pointless. All I said was that Cowher was responsible for the QBs on his team. If he’s not, who is?
 
I think Tomlin has a devalued look at QBs. He doesn't draft any high ranking QBs. He gave a 1st round grade on Rudolph but didn't draft him until the 3rd. Maybe if he had valued the position higher we would have a real backup instead of these bums?

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I have to chuckle at a few things in this discussion. Vader,you are like my old black lab looking for his bone. Looking for me to throw the bouncy ball. You won’t give in....not even a little. Not that I blame you. I agree with most. That one little quote above.....look at the **** storm it created when the FO drafted Rudy. Do you not remember the little hissy fit Ben had when they drafted him? Maybe their hands were tied a bit.
Not that I am a Tomlin apologist. I have stated many times,I saw the writing on the wall after the Tebow disaster in the playoffs. How long ago was that? His inability to adjust on the fly is his downfall.

Now I know these conversations about Coach Mike vs Coach Bill will go on and on. Vader,Slash were you on this board during coach Bill’s tenure? It was the same conversation. Except it was Coach Chuck vs Coach Bill. As much as everyone says they love Bill now, this board was screaming for Bill to get fired. Their were tons of disappointments. People were sick of his conservative play calling, the lack of a real QB. Vader posted a couple times here that most of the board loved Stewart. I say Bull **** to that. They didn’t. Most would have rather had him as a WR,once in a while gadget like NO does with Hill. He had one great year,and much like the RG3 situation,the league figured him out quickly.
The opportunity and patience shown to him was frigging ridiculous. With our D back then,it cost us championships as well.

Also with the drafting Rivers comments from back then. We were QB starved. Most on the board wanted Rivers and yes as stated a few ,especially TMC hated his quirky delivery. Thought all his balls thrown would be knocked down and his delivery was too slow. But he was not an instant top 10 QB. A lot of us thought if we were really lucky he would be there for us in the 3rd,but most were willing to settle for him in the 2nd round. Then a funny thing happened like it does with some players,he started shooting up the draft charts. The media loved him. All of a sudden we would be lucky if we even could get him with our first. The Chargers fell in love with him. Big Ben wasn’t even really being considered by us,because we all knew he would be long gone. Let’s not act like it was a stroke of genius by Rooney or Bill,or anybody in the FO. We got lucky......he fell in to our laps. But at least we grabbed him.......there are some other teams that sure wish they had.

Just a little trip down memory lane.

I was on the Steelers board before Diamond Dave. I remember when he joined. There were many people that loved Kordell. Some still on here like antdrew. I had heated debates with the Apologist, Pfunk and many many more. So to say that nobody liked Kordell is ridiculous. I remember them well. I can call bullshit too because I remember them. Maybe you don't? I hated Rivers just like TMC. I never thought Ben would drop to #11. It was luck but that doesn't mean Cowher should be blamed because he couldn't find a great QB before Ben. They don't grow on trees.

I posted about Tomlin not valuing the QB position almost in jest. I don't really know what Tomlin values because he's had everything handed to him and he's never been held accountable. Obviously he values a defense because it is loaded with 1st rounders.
 
He could have drafted Chad Pennington. No Pennington wasn’t a world beater, but I would have taken him over Kordell, Tomczak, O’Donnell, or any of the other stiffs he trotted out there.

But I will say this. I understand why he didn’t Draft Pennington. They had drafted Kordell in the 2nd round in 1995, and Cowher was enamored with him. They could have grabbed Mark Brunnell as well. Look his philosophy apparently was to have a game manager that wouldn’t kill you, run the ball and play excellent defense. For most of his tenure, the Steelers did that.

Suggesting that Cowher never had a chance to draft an upgrade is inaccurate.

Seriously? Pennington has almost the exact same record as Kordell. He wouldn't have upgraded anything.

Brunell? The same guy that played for 5 teams? The same guy that was 5-5 in the playoffs with a 50% passer rating with 11 TDs and 11 Ints? That's the guy? The guy that nobody every thought of drafting until the 5th round? Seriously?
 
Seriously? Pennington has almost the exact same record as Kordell. He wouldn't have upgraded anything.

Brunell? The same guy that played for 5 teams? The same guy that was 5-5 in the playoffs with a 50% passer rating with 11 TDs and 11 Ints? That's the guy? The guy that nobody every thought of drafting until the 5th round? Seriously?

Really? Gonna go off the record? You know the Jets didn’t have what the Steelers had. Not even close.
 
And Kordell was 2-2 in the playoffs, 48.6% completion rate with 2 TD and 8 INT. What’s your point?
 
So now we are taking players and their stats and record with the teams they played for and assuming with our loaded teams that they would put up the exact same stats and record. Hmmmm.
 
And Kordell was 2-2 in the playoffs, 48.6% completion rate with 2 TD and 8 INT. What’s your point?
Sorry nothing you have said makes me think Cowher had clear upgrades available. Every coach is responsible for their stable sure. But the general feeling is Cowher did more with less and Tomlin less with more. And I see nothing to discredit that thought process.

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So now we are taking players and their stats and record with the teams they played for and assuming with our loaded teams that they would put up the exact same stats and record. Hmmmm.
That is what you got from these convos? It is more that the Steelers QBs under Cowher weren't horrible and easily replaced. Ol Bill didn't have the luxury of an elite QB his entire tenure. That is what I get from it.


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Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, how come Noll couldn't get a QB after Bradshaw? It's not easy that's why. Again look where we drafted under Cowher and tell me where we screwed up and passed on a good QB. And tell me at what point did we know we wouldn't win with Neil?

Point remains, Tomlin has had and inherited a franchise HOF QB his entire career, how many coaches can say that?

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I hope you don’t think I’m defending Tomlin, because that is not the case. Everyone kept saying “If Cowher had a quarterback....”. All I said was Cowher is responsible for the QBs that were on his teams. That’s it. Apparently that is sac religious.
 
Every coach is responsible for their stable sure. But the general feeling is Cowher did more with less and Tomlin less with more. And I see nothing to discredit that thought process.

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And I don’t disagree with any of that. All I said that Cowher is responsible for the QBs he had. That’s all.
 
And Kordell was 2-2 in the playoffs, 48.6% completion rate with 2 TD and 8 INT. What’s your point?

Good Lord, I'm surprised he won 2 games with that awful stat line.
 
I hope you don’t think I’m defending Tomlin, because that is not the case. Everyone kept saying “If Cowher had a quarterback....”. All I said was Cowher is responsible for the QBs that were on his teams. That’s it. Apparently that is sac religious.



No, not at all Sarge. I miss read a couple of your post(s) so I wanted to make clear about the same as what slash was saying. Cower had much less and made much more where as Tomlin had much more and made much less with it.

No worries





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