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Cowherd Roasts Tomlin Nuthugger

stillwright said:
Cowher built his teams around a strong running game and defense. He didn't hold the QB position that high. Nothing to do with anyone being a "Tomlin Lover" And that is how Cowher got a 46 - 29 record from Kordell.,,,,,,a strong running game and strong defense to answer your question.
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How do you know that? Somehow most of this "Cowher didn't want a QB" started AFTER Tomlin started failing with Ben. You really believe Cowher didn't really want a good QB? That's just ignorant. That's like saying Tomlin doesn't really want good CBs because he believes he can win with DL and LBers. It's ridiculous.
 
Vader, you’re on FIRE ! Thanks for your great post(s).



Salute the nation
 
Vader said:
How do you know that? Somehow most of this "Cowher didn't want a QB" started AFTER Tomlin started failing with Ben. You really believe Cowher didn't really want a good QB? That's just ignorant. That's like saying Tomlin doesn't really want good CBs because he believes he can win with DL and LBers. It's ridiculous.
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Plenty of reports stated Cowher didn't want Ben. Dan Rooney convinced Bill Cowher to draft Ben Roethlisberger | The Sports Daily
https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/04/14/dan-rooney-convinced-bill-cowher-to-draft-ben-roethlisberger/
 
And I am not even bashing Cowher for not valuing QBs highly in his scheme of things. It is just how it was.
 
stillwright said:
Plenty of reports stated Cowher didn't want Ben. Dan Rooney convinced Bill Cowher to draft Ben Roethlisberger | The Sports Daily
https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/04/14/dan-rooney-convinced-bill-cowher-to-draft-ben-roethlisberger/
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Bullshit. I've read Dan's book and listened to his interview. Cowher and several people from the FO were discussing a few players. They had taken nobody off the board. Dan said he steered the conversation back to Ben but he didn't force them to take him. If Cowher didn't want him he wouldn't have been drafted. That's what the power struggle with Donahoe was all about. If Cowher couldn't get his players he wasn't going to stay. Cowher had a lot of say over the draft.
 
Vader said:
Bullshit. I've read Dan's book and listened to his interview. Cowher and several people from the FO were discussing a few players. They had taken nobody off the board. Dan said he steered the conversation back to Ben but he didn't force them to take him. If Cowher didn't want him he wouldn't have been drafted. That's what the power struggle with Donahoe was all about. If Cowher couldn't get his players he wasn't going to stay. Cowher had a lot of say over the draft.
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This exactly, they didn't just start discussing their pick when they were on the clock, after the Eli/Rivers thing went down between picks 1 thru 4, did anyone really think Ben was going to be available at 11? I know I didn't, the Steelers probably didn't, so they did have to discuss who they'd take if Ben wasn't there correct?
Cowher won as many postseason games(5) in his 3 seasons with Ben as Tomlin has in the past 11 seasons with Ben.

Funny, you never hear anyone bitching about Noll not wanting Franco, because he didn't.

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Vader said:
Bullshit. I've read Dan's book and listened to his interview. Cowher and several people from the FO were discussing a few players. They had taken nobody off the board. Dan said he steered the conversation back to Ben but he didn't force them to take him. If Cowher didn't want him he wouldn't have been drafted. That's what the power struggle with Donahoe was all about. If Cowher couldn't get his players he wasn't going to stay. Cowher had a lot of say over the draft.
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A big reason Cowher took a lot of **** for the 2004 draft is that he pretty openly had a hard on for Phillip Rivers, and the narrative he did not want Ben was largely fueled by that.

As you implied, there's no way the Steelers do not draft Ben without Cowher being on board with it, and there was really no shame in preferring Rivers over Ben, as Rivers is a borderline HOFer having spent his career with the freaking Chargers.
 
Punxsutawney said:
A big reason Cowher took a lot of **** for the 2004 draft is that he pretty openly had a hard on for Phillip Rivers, and the narrative he did not want Ben was largely fueled by that.

As you implied, there's no way the Steelers do not draft Ben without Cowher being on board with it, and there was really no shame in preferring Rivers over Ben, as Rivers is a borderline HOFer having spent his career with the freaking Chargers.
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Coming out of College, Rivers was listed as NFL ready from day 1, Ben was raw, but listed as having a higher ceiling. Also Rivers was the NCAA all time wins leader I think.

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Coryea said:
Coming out of College, Rivers was listed as NFL ready from day 1, Ben was raw, but listed as having a higher ceiling. Also Rivers was the NCAA all time wins leader I think.

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And Cowher preferred Andrew's over Ben.
 
stillwright said:
And Cowher preferred Andrew's over Ben.
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Again you don't know that. You're assuming that. But even if he did that didn't mean he disregarded QBs since he wanted Rivers. Maybe he didn't think Ben was that good? But that doesn't mean he devalued the QB position as a whole, which is your entire argument.
 
SteelerSask said:
I highly doubt Roethlisberger was ahead of Rivers on many boards that year.
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And? He should have been with his much higher ceiling, and Rivers' already seen floor. I'm just glad it worked out the way it did, and Mr. Dan Rooney stepped in to get the conversation going back in Roethlisberger's direction.
 
I was about the only one on this board who wanted Rivers. TMC had everyone convinced Rivers had a weird throwing motion and it was a flaw. Living in NC I had seen a lot of Rivers at NC State, this board was familiar with Ben at Miami of Ohio.

If we had drafted Rivers we would have won some Super Bowls. No Doubt in my mind, but I love Ben and I am so glad that he is our QB and not Rivers.

During the 2004 draft, Donahoe, at that time exiled to Buffalo and picking at #13, was desperately trying to trade up before the Steelers to get Ben. He thought he had a deal with Atlanta, but they took Deangelo Hall, also a target of the Steelers.

Once CB Dunta Robinson was selected it was pretty much between Andrews and Ben. We looked at our needs, saw what was left in the pantry, and selected a HOF QB.

Donahoe panicked after the Steelers drafted Ben and traded back up into the first round to select a QB, JP Losman-Tulane
 
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Vader said:
Again you don't know that. You're assuming that. But even if he did that didn't mean he disregarded QBs since he wanted Rivers. Maybe he didn't think Ben was that good? But that doesn't mean he devalued the QB position as a whole, which is your entire argument.
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Every article that I read at the time stated Cowher wanted Andrews. Was I privy to who Cowher actually wanted? Nope. I am guessing neither were you though.
 
Coryea said:
Where's the proof?

Here's a fact. 04-06 Cowher won 5 postseason games with Ben. Tomlin 10-19 has won 3 postseasons with Ben.

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Again. I am not arguing the whole Tomlin vs Cowher angle you and a few are. I could care less. If you look at Cowher built teams it is clear to me he devalued the QB position. Just how I see it. Obviously you see it differently and want to shout about Tomlin's record with Ben vs Cowher's. Blah blah blah. **** Tomlin and **** the whole Cowher/Tomlin comparison anymore. **** is ******* old. I remember when everyone on here was shouting to fire Cowher also. Now he is some Saint. Time to move on from him dude. Hopefully we move on from Tomlin soon also. A little dream I believe a bunch on thois board ALL have.
 
stillwright said:
Every article that I read at the time stated Cowher wanted Andrews. Was I privy to who Cowher actually wanted? Nope. I am guessing neither were you though.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15232563/the-day-browns-passed-big-ben

Colbert: "Coach [Bill] Cowher unselfishly made the statement that, for the sake of the organization, if a quarterback is available, we should give it serious thought. Was that the most immediate need? No, because we didn't plan on Ben playing his rookie year. ... Tommy [Maddox] gets hurt in the first game, the rest was history."
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SteelerFan448 said:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15232563/the-day-browns-passed-big-ben
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And take it a step farther now. Colbert stated that Cowher said that if a young QB is available that they should give it serious thought. So with Ben available and the Steelers on the clock as stated in Dan's book as Vader stated.... Dan had to steer the conversation BACK to Ben. If it was Rivers there it would have been him. It is just that Cowher had Andrews above Ben and below Rivers.
 
stillwright said:
And take it a step farther now. Colbert stated that Cowher said that if a young QB is available that they should give it serious thought. So with Ben available and the Steelers on the clock as stated in Dan's book as Vader stated.... Dan had to steer the conversation BACK to Ben. If it was Rivers there it would have been him. It is just that Cowher had Andrews above Ben and below Rivers.
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Again you assume things you don't know. Dan steered the conversation but it never says who's talking. You assume Cowher liked Andrews but you don't know that. It could have been Colbert that wanted Andrews and then Dan steered the conversation back to Ben. You are reading way too much into this.

And again, to the point you won't answer, that doesn't mean Cowher devalued the QB position as a whole. Which was your entire argument. Now you flipped to "Cowher didn't want Ben". Which is an entirely different argument.
 
Vader said:
Again you assume things you don't know. Dan steered the conversation but it never says who's talking. You assume Cowher liked Andrews but you don't know that. It could have been Colbert that wanted Andrews and then Dan steered the conversation back to Ben. You are reading way too much into this.

And again, to the point you won't answer, that doesn't mean Cowher devalued the QB position as a whole. Which was your entire argument. Now you flipped to "Cowher didn't want Ben". Which is an entirely different argument.
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And again...you don't know either. Cowher's history of trotting out the QB's he did without ever trying to truly upgrade the position is where I believe he didn't value the QB position. Pretty simple actually. That is MY stance. Am I correct? Maybe. Maybe not. As far as Cowher wanting Andrews over Ben? The articles I read back then stated that. Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not. While I don't know the actual truth neither do you. So All I am stating as I stated before is that this is MY opinion.
 
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