Could we be 8-8 again?

[Ike Kelly]

"Look, Mommy, someone defending Tomlin as a good coach."

Another childish response from the indomitable Pop. You don't disappoint showing who you are. Which is so easy to see.

I hold Tomlin accountable for wins and losses. Period. He's the head coach, I make no defense, or apologies towards him for it. I don't have to. If it continues, changes will be eventually made. They always are. That is the business. Of which the owner has been very successful for the last 40 odd years. So I choose to give the majority owner the benefit of the doubt. He is obviously a much more intelligent person than you are based upon his success with the club.

But you insinuate you think you know everything there is about being a professional head coach or a general manager of a professional football club, or better yet a owner and CEO of one. Unless you have proof you do, you don't know anymore or less than any of one else on this board. But please by all means keep patting yourself on the back thinking you are smarter than those you denigrate. Whatever makes makes you feel better.

 

[DBS1970]

I'm thinking 7-9.

 

[TDX27]

We all know a Tomlin team can lose to ANY team, no mater how ******. But I wouldn't assume they "easily" lose to Cleveland and Ravens. But, is it likely they lose at least 3 more? Easily. That would mean 3 out of the last 5 seasons of a non-winning record. (I know there are some "math challenged" folks out there, but look for yourself: If we go 8-8 or worse, that will make 3 out of 5 seasons without a winning record.)

2012: 8-8
2013: 8-8
2014: 11-5
2015: 10-6
2016: 4-5 with 4 out of the next 5 games on the road, @Cle, @Colts, NYG, @Bills, @Bengals, Ravens, Browns. You don't think it's likely they lose 3 more?

Tomlin is inferior. It is becoming glaringly obvious he is in over his head. When your franchise QB starts publically stating the team lacks discipline, accountability and urgency, that is a clear sign the head coach ain't getting it done.

I can easily see us losing 3 of these games and maybe more. I hope not but we haven't shown to be any better than anyone on that list other than the clowns and that's a division rivalry game where anything can happen. And, even looking at the 11-5 and 10-6 seasons, we still lost at least a game or two in each of those years that we should have won.

 

[TDX27]

And, if we're going to be 8-8 or worse, make sure it gets us a top 10 pick. And, maybe, just maybe we snag Ben's replacement a year or two earlier than expected.

 

[deljzc]

According to Football Outsiders we still have about a 40% chance of winning the division and getting a playoff spot.

It also seems very unlikely our division will yield a wildcard team to you see the playoff % in our division as very close between us and Baltimore (40% each) and then Cincinnati with a 20% chance (they also get the 2-3% bonus of a wildcard spot):

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds

It's a sad commentary on our highly anticipated season where many here and in the media expected so much more. 8-8 is now EXPECTED on this season and anything more from here on out is exceeding expectations in our final 7 games.

In summary almost no part of the team or individual players are performing above anticipated levels. Most thought the trio of Roethlisberger - Bell - Brown would be top-5 at their positions. They are top-10. Most thought the defense had the potential to be a middle 12-18th ranked defense. They are in the bottom 1/3rd. Sacks and turnover are way down.

It's really a team-wide and coaching-wide under achievement this season.

 

[obxsteeler]

Many of the expectations were based on having a great offense to overcome a young rebuilding defense. That offense included Ben,Bell, Bryant, Green, Wheaton, and Marcus Gilbert full time. Check on how often that group has ever been on the field together plus the time missed by Heyward, Dupree, and Golson and tell me any reasonable person wouldn't have lowered their expectations a little.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Many of the expectations were based on having a great offense to overcome a young rebuilding defense. That offense included Ben,Bell, Bryant, Green, Wheaton, and Marcus Gilbert full time. Check on how often that group has ever been on the field together plus the time missed by Heyward, Dupree, and Golson and tell me any reasonable person wouldn't have lowered their expectations a little.

Any coach worth his salt should be able to scheme around these losses. No excuses Ob

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[topseed]

Yes preach your agenda, and how you assemble numerical data displays it. You could describe it in your context or like this...

If we go 8-8 or worse, then it would mean 3 out of the last 5 seasons we had a non-losing record, which last occurred in 2013; or one losing season which last occurred in 2003.

You want to play on words...(I know there are some "math challenged" folks out there, but look for yourself: If we go 8-8 or worse, that will make 3 out of 5 seasons without a winning record.)

But to look at W/L records or more importantly playoff records you have this:

Until this year, which after Cam's injuries, may well indeed be a losing record, it will be the first one under Tomlin. It will also be the first time we haven't been to the playoffs since 2013. In fact, we've only missed the playoffs 4 times in 14 years (2 with Cowher, 2 with Tomlin). The last two seasons were winning records 11-5, 10-6 respectively and a trip to the playoffs. Tomlin's team hasn't gotten it done and won a championship that's a fact, but neither has the majority of the other 31 coaches. The team you appear to favor above all others have won the same amount of championships since 2007 as the Steelers but have loss more. But we know you won't say a terse thing about that franchise..,

...I was just stating the data and why they are. Besides the winning percentage of NE, which is padded because of their division amongst other things that has been chronicled, there are maybe 5 or 6 teams who have mirrored what Pittsburgh has done.

In fact, the Steelers have missed the playoffs THREE times under Tomlin (not twice): 2009, 2012, and 2013. I would have thought that a "math/data" guy like you would have at least stated this information correctly.

 

[Stryker]

In fact, the Steelers have missed the playoffs THREE times under Tomlin (not twice): 2009, 2012, and 2013. I would have thought that a "math/data" guy like you would have at least stated this information correctly.

And we missed the playoffs 5 years under Cowher. 98, 99, 00, 03, 06. Oh, they cherry picked stats to make Cowher look better, not counting his last year. HA!

 

[bigtwnvin]

Let's look at the remainder of the schedule shall we?
The Colts Thursday night at Lucas. An equally wretched 5-5 team that the Titans spotted 21 points to. If the Steelers D can match or exceed their efforts vs Clowns it favors the Steelers for the W even on the road.Both teams have a short week to prepare.
The Giants are 7-3, unless the weather equalizes the game to a running event or Stephon Tuitte and Dan McCullars pancake Eli so he is forced to be a bystander this is a guaranteed shootout the Steelers lose in the closing seconds a la Dallas.
Buffalo another weather impacted game vs another 5-5 mediocre team.The Ryan brothers need to win because they think they can beat Brady in a WC game LOL. If the Steelers are still healthy and can run the ball they win.
The Bengals stink and will have had the snot beat out of them by the Rats. AJ Green might not even be available. Burfict could potentially end Ben's season just for sheets and giggles. This could be the playoff death blow with a loss.
Merry Christmas the Rats are coming to the Burgh to beat the Steelers because Mike Tomlin will not have found an answer to Mike Wallace and Steve Smith again.
Happy New Year, here come the Browns to end their season at Heinz Field exiting the 2016 season with a perfect "owen" -16 as the Steelers win in a nail biter! Wouldn't have it any other way.
My final prediction 8-8 and Tomlin gets to return as he can truthful say amongst other BS, he did not have a losing 2016 record.

 

[TDX27]

The Steelers will have a tough time in Indy unless they practice for playing in a dome with the crowd noise. Why we are the only team that abandons the no huddle on the road astounds me. Other teams practice indoors with the speakers blaring to simulate the environment. They better do that in their only practice or 2 this week. We will need to score early and often to have a chance of winning in Indy. Indy is not a bad team like the clowns.

 

[bigtwnvin]

The Steelers will have a tough time in Indy unless they practice for playing in a dome with the crowd noise.

Why we are the only team that abandons the no huddle on the road astounds me

. Other teams practice indoors with the speakers blaring to simulate the environment. They better do that in their only practice or 2 this week. We will need to score early and often to have a chance of winning in Indy. Indy is not a bad team like the clowns.

Game day preparation and decisions made by the coaching staff. That said, you don't just show up on game day and start the no huddle.
But hey, who am I to judge?

 

[AggieSteel]

At least we don't be fighting the elements in Indy - they play indoors right?

Oh who am I kidding, Ben will struggle to put up 200 yards and 20 points anyway

 

[ark steel]

yes. We could also be 4-12, 5-11,...11-5, 12-4, etc.

What we won't be is 16-0, 15-1, 14-2, 13-3.

Need to update this.

We could be 5-11, 6-10, ....10-6, 11-5.

What we won't be is 16-0, 15-1, 14-2, 13-3 or 12-4

 

[slashsteel]

Despite the teams coaching issues examining the team I see some things.As in what will lead to a collapse or a long shot squeeze into the playoffs. From a player perspective.

Coates- The longer he is out at the WR position, the longer the O will struggle at the second WR position. Which will cause shorter drives, and a longer time for a less than average D to be on the field.

Green - he can help to ease the loss of Coates but will have to show a lot of improvement from what he is showing as of right now.

Dupree- not a savior but if he can get more pressure on the QB against good teams, this can help a young secondary.

Run D - They need to get back to filling those gaps. Far too often they are out of position, and as seen good running teams will expose this. This is a group issue more than a one player issue......

 

[Ike Kelly]

In fact, the Steelers have missed the playoffs THREE times under Tomlin (not twice): 2009, 2012, and 2013. I would have thought that a "math/data" guy like you would have at least stated this information correctly.

Thanks Topseed to catching and correcting me this. 2009 I think we lost the tiebreaker to either the NY or Balt. I also wouldn't consider myself a 'math/data guy", 'rather more of a common sense guy. So here is the updated sentence which still doesn't change the intent of the statement...

Until this year, which after Cam's injuries, may well indeed be a losing record, it will be the first one under Tomlin. It will also be the first time we haven't been to the playoffs since 2013. In fact, we've only missed the playoffs 5 times in 14 years (2 with Cowher, 3 with Tomlin). The last two seasons were winning records 11-5, 10-6 respectively and a trip to the playoffs. Tomlin's team hasn't gotten it done and won a championship that's a fact, but neither has the majority of the other 31 coaches. The team you appear to favor above all others have won the same amount of championships since 2007 as the Steelers but have loss more.

 

[slashsteel]

Thanks Topseed to catching and correcting me this. 2009 I think we lost the tiebreaker to either the NY or Balt. I also wouldn't consider myself a 'math/data guy", 'rather more of a common sense guy. So here is the updated sentence which still doesn't change the intent of the statement...

Until this year, which after Cam's injuries, may well indeed be a losing record, it will be the first one under Tomlin. It will also be the first time we haven't been to the playoffs since 2013. in fact, we've only missed the playoffs 5 times in 14 years (2 with Cowher, 3 with Tomlin). The last two seasons were winning records 11-5, 10-6 respectively and a trip to the playoffs.Tomlin's team hasn't gotten it done and won a championship that's a fact, but neither has the majority of the other 31 coaches. The team you appear to favor above all others have won the same amount of championships since 2007 as the Steelers but have loss more.

wut

 

[Ike Kelly]

Thanks Topseed to catching and correcting me this. 2009 I think we lost the tiebreaker to either the NY or Balt. I also wouldn't consider myself a 'math/data guy", 'rather more of a common sense guy. So here is the updated sentence which still doesn't change the intent of the statement...

Until this year, which after Cam's injuries, may well indeed be a losing record, it will be the first one under Tomlin. It will also be the first time we haven't been to the playoffs since 2013. In fact, we've only missed the playoffs 5 times in 14 years (2 with Cowher, 3 with Tomlin). The last two seasons were winning records 11-5, 10-6 respectively and a trip to the playoffs.Tomlin's team hasn't gotten it done and won a championship that's a fact, but neither has the majority of the other 31 coaches. The team you appear to favor above all others have won the same amount of championships since 2007 as the Steelers but have loss more.

wut

fixed it for you...

 

[slashsteel]

fixed it for you...

Unless I read it wrong but Tomlin has won a championship. That is why I highlighted that sentence.

Oh you were just referring to the last two seasons, nevermind.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Unless I read it wrong but Tomlin has won a championship. That is why I highlighted that sentence.

Oh you were just referring to the last two seasons, nevermind.

Yep...he hasn't gotten in done, when in the position to grab it. Injuries shouldn't be an excuse....but players are dropping like flies all across the NFL.....maybe they should practice more (oh! the inhumanity!!) Unlike other professionals who practice their jobs that are physical.....Firefighters, cops, the services. Who get compensated much, much, less.

 

[slashsteel]

Yep...he hasn't gotten in done, when in the position to grab it. Injuries shouldn't be an excuse....but players are dropping like flies all across the NFL.....maybe they should practice more (oh! the inhumanity!!) Unlike other professionals who practice their jobs that are physical.....Firefighters, cops, the services. Who get compensated much, much, less.

I tell you one of the things I hate, the bullshit of scaling back training camp practices. I think that influences some of the injuries. Sure some would happen regardless.

 

[TDX27]

Hopefully it's just rust but Green looks very slow. I mentioned it last week and watching him run the few routes he had this week, he gets no separation at all. He is supposed to be a 4.4-4.5 guy and he looks more like he is running about 5.0. Hopefully it's just rust but if his ankle is still bothering him that much, they should have IR'ed him.

 

[slashsteel]

Hopefully it's just rust but Green looks very slow. I mentioned it last week and watching him run the few routes he had this week, he gets no separation at all. He is supposed to be a 4.4-4.5 guy and he looks more like he is running about 5.0. Hopefully it's just rust but if his ankle is still bothering him that much, they should have IR'ed him.

I somehwat agree, but there is things I look at.


How long until he shakes the rust?

Was the unit being more productive before he stepped on the field?

Is it enough of a body of work to judge it?

If they IR'd him would that be jumping the gun on a player who could be a difference maker?

I think you have a leash on him from what he shows in practice, and moving forward on the field.

As can the Steelers afford to let him get those continued reps if he continues to lay eggs?


lot of questions, and his play will provide the answers. But on a team with little wiggle room perhaps his opportunities shouldn't continue too long, if his performance doesn't improve.

 

[POP]

In fact, the Steelers have missed the playoffs THREE times under Tomlin (not twice): 2009, 2012, and 2013. I would have thought that a "math/data" guy like you would have at least stated this information correctly.

Topseed, I think you hit on something here. Yes, Tomlin has missed 3 playoffs not two. And if we go 8-8 again (for the 3rd time under Tomlin) it will mark 3 out of 5 years with a non-winning record. That is simply a fact. Ike is having trouble with the mathematics involved.

 

[POP]

I somehwat agree, but there is things I look at.


How long until he shakes the rust?

Was the unit being more productive before he stepped on the field?

Is it enough of a body of work to judge it?

If they IR'd him would that be jumping the gun on a player who could be a difference maker?

I think you have a leash on him from what he shows in practice, and moving forward on the field.

As can the Steelers afford to let him get those continued reps if he continues to lay eggs?


lot of questions, and his play will provide the answers. But on a team with little wiggle room perhaps his opportunities shouldn't continue too long, if his performance doesn't improve.

Here is my take from watching him this game: As stated, he didn't get ANY separation, and when Ben did throw his way, I got the feeling Ben was TOLD to throw his way, and he kind of just tossed it over his head, since he knew he wasn't really open, but, being that Green was our prized free agent signing, politics were such that they made Ben go there when he did. Ben's body language and expression looked as if he was just going through the motions even though he didn't really believe in the plays going to Green. The guy was slow, and yes, maybe after some live game action, he will get better. But as of right now, plays targeted to him were wasted plays; he showed nothing as of right now.