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You mean the backup who was injured in the same game? How many teams have starter quality at 3rd string?
According To PG. Tomlin micromanaged Defense. & Changes are happening from Rooney
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You mean the backup who was injured in the same game? How many teams have starter quality at 3rd string?
I don't care who is running that defense, get rid of that ******* horrible 2DL ****, there is no defending that decision and it rarely works.
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I think most are really underestimating how big a factor Ryan Shazier was..he meant alot mentally and physically to the defense..he was a football junkie and our best athlete on defense. His smarts and physical talents were invaluable. Losing him set us back mentally physically and last but not least emotionally..
I agree with everything you said, hell he may be the best athlete on the team, but we had our two worst defensive games vs the run when he was in there. We made Hundley look like a pro bowl QB with Shazier.
We also played well vs NE without him holding Brady to 280 yards passing and the pats under 80 rushing. We are definitely better with him, but we did alot wrong with him on the field, and alot of that had to do with our big $ DEs not showing up, I think Tuitt missed the bears game
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I agree with tom about the 2 DL's . I agree with ark , even though he is generally to blame, about dirty red being injured. BUT I also think wtf 1 guy is out and now we are ****? It cant be that way. I like Vince Williams. But if our Buck / mack or whatever goes out, someone has got to step up. We cant be predicated on one guy missing. I think we can upgrade on Safety and. (Must) upgrade at ilb with Shazier gone.
BUT that said. Are we the 2006 3-4 defense? Or the 2017 modified 3-4 defense. Because you need to know that before you start calling for another big snack. (tom)
COPE I purposefully posted this thread, because you point out the fact players say " butler calls the Defense" etc. there is something we don't know. good or bad. I think Tomlin has good makings as a HC. I think he has faults like Cowher did. But I think he need to have a clue as to the defense he is trying to run, 3/4 4/3, tampa 2 etc.....
I think Porter need to get with it, or shown the door. Maybe he was handcuffed by the DC or HC. IDK. But we all agree and have stated the poor play of our 3rd year 1st round pick at LDE.
On DL , I see what Spike is talking about. I see flashes of great from Heyward. I think hargrave isn't bad. But then I see the Jags game and how we got ******* handed our jock on the DL. Maybe the hiring at DL Coach is warranted. I truly believe the DB coach hiring was warranted.
But I think ol ART II has his finger on the pulse as to the problems. He don't over react. But he does react.
BUT that said. Are we the 2006 3-4 defense? Or the 2017 modified 3-4 defense. Because you need to know that before you start calling for another big snack. (tom)
COPE I purposefully posted this thread, because you point out the fact players say " butler calls the Defense" etc. there is something we don't know. good or bad. I think Tomlin has good makings as a HC. I think he has faults like Cowher did. But I think he need to have a clue as to the defense he is trying to run, 3/4 4/3, tampa 2 etc.....
I think Porter need to get with it, or shown the door. Maybe he was handcuffed by the DC or HC. IDK. But we all agree and have stated the poor play of our 3rd year 1st round pick at LDE.
On DL , I see what Spike is talking about. I see flashes of great from Heyward. I think hargrave isn't bad. But then I see the Jags game and how we got ******* handed our jock on the DL. Maybe the hiring at DL Coach is warranted. I truly believe the DB coach hiring was warranted.
But I think ol ART II has his finger on the pulse as to the problems. He don't over react. But he does react.
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The scheme has been horrible for a few years now. It gets shredded by backup or scrub qbs over and over again. We got burned deep over and over again. So many guys just looked lost or way out of position. Rbs killed them on cut backs, guys wide open in the flat. IMO what I saw was soft and the only thing better was a pass rush. That got snuffed out late in the year and into the playoff game. They got an epic ***** slapping in that game.
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If the Steelers want another Hampton, then they need to find players similar to the 2006 type scheme.
The Steelers still run a 3-4 but with smaller/speedier guys.
It's time to break away from the 3-4 and utilize the speed imo
Cant forget he was a young player himself who missed alot of valubale time. He was still growing as a player. Not only in his understanding of pro football but his own game.
Ole Ed Douchette at it again with his sources ****.
Look, after having the season we had there had to be changes. Nothing wrong with a restructuring of our coaching staff to bring in new blood, new tactics, ideas, etc. The difference between us and other franchises is the other franchises clear out the entire coaching staff. That's a very risky way of managing a football team and usually comes with front office casualties when the new regime fails after a couple seasons. Its why there's a ferris wheel of recycled coaches and personnel.
Look, after having the season we had there had to be changes. Nothing wrong with a restructuring of our coaching staff to bring in new blood, new tactics, ideas, etc. The difference between us and other franchises is the other franchises clear out the entire coaching staff. That's a very risky way of managing a football team and usually comes with front office casualties when the new regime fails after a couple seasons. Its why there's a ferris wheel of recycled coaches and personnel.
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Agree with this. Look at the last teams to beat the Pats in the SB...Giants twice and now Eagles. All 3 of those teams had what were arguably considered the best DLines in the league those seasons and they all ran a 4-3. The Steelers went the other way and run 2 DL sets a lot which is not how you control the line of scrimmage...especially without stud LBers.
3-4 isn't working in this league unless you have the LBers talented enough to run it...we haven't since Harrison lost a step and Farrior left. The pass rush improved this year but it came at the expense of the run D.
The D has lost its balance. 10+ years ago, they were highly ranked vs the pass and run. Now it seems we're good at one at the expense of the other.
If they aren't confident in the 4/3 perhaps drafting a NT/DT early is the route to go. Not sure what they plan on doing, but that **** they threw on the field won't win you championships,
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Toward the end of the year, the defense was pretty bad.
We gave up 28 points to Green Bay without Rodgers
We gave up 38 points to the Ravens.
In the last six games, the D surrendered 23.8 points on average, and this includes the 34-6 easy win over Houston who had no QB.
And in the playoffs a Bortles lead team had 45 points on the defense. Ouch.
We gave up 28 points to Green Bay without Rodgers
We gave up 38 points to the Ravens.
In the last six games, the D surrendered 23.8 points on average, and this includes the 34-6 easy win over Houston who had no QB.
And in the playoffs a Bortles lead team had 45 points on the defense. Ouch.
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I'm okay with DT/NT being the first pick if ILB's and S's with a first round grade are gone.
NT/DT Da'Ron Payne is a beast of a man, very hard to move vs the run, and the type that can push interior lineman backwards vs the pass.
Payne in 2017 totaled 53 tackles, 45 of which came against the run ... tallied one sack (-7 yards) while adding a team-high eight quarterback hurries, three pass breakups, an interception and one fumble recovery
But his impact is beyond numbers, teams had trouble running at him and his pass effort made the job easier for the guys on the edge. Hargrave is slow, weak vs the run, and marginal at best as a an interior rush man. A player like Payne is scheme versatile ( 4-3, Nickle, Goal Line ) , and don't be fooled by the numbers we have a soft middle vs the run that would have been exploited more often if the opposing team wasn't usually chasing points from Ben and the offense.
Yeah, I'd be okay with Payne in round one. Not over Evans though.
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Not sure if i am high on Evans I need to watch some more tape. The tape I did watch with these ILBers so far for me it has been meh. I would be just as happy if they brought in a free agent ILber and FS and then stuck to their BPA board. Which could very well be a NT or a DT. Or double up at S or OLBer.
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THIS right here says a lot. THAT formation is **** from the snap of the ball. 3rd and short, 2DL set, easiest first down of the game.
Whoever calls this formation, head coach on down, should be gone.
Salute the nation
I agree and disagree. Our defense started the year hot (to my surprise), back when the offense was sucking ***. Somewhere in the middle of the season, the defense started slipping bad. Even with Shazier, the defense was taking a step back. I saw Shazier whiff, miss, and overrun quite a few plays. But when he went down, we really started sucking.
We HAVE TO IMPROVE on communication, players out of position, and MISSING TACKLES.
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You dont draft a player who plays 30% of the snaps in the 1st round....The league isn't no where the same as when Hamp played. We are in the era of "packages" for offense and defense. The Base defense isn''t really a base anymore and Run stopping NT isn't a priority pick unless the player can move up and down the line (Suh, Donald, etc.)
We won't take a NT in round 1 because we won't use him on 3 Downs. I wouldn't be against it, you get a beast in the middle and you can rotate him and Hargrave at NT all 3 Downs with Cam, Tuitt, AluAlu(haven't looked at his contract if he's still here). And let Watt rush the QB a little more, he hat what 7-8 sacks only rushing the QB 25% of his snaps.
I mean is it really that hard to see that the teams that give NE, and really any team trouble, but especially NE, are the teams that control the LOS and push the middle of the pocket.
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I mean is it really that hard to see that the teams that give NE, and really any team trouble, but especially NE, are the teams that control the LOS and push the middle of the pocket.
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I'm okay with DT/NT being the first pick if ILB's and S's with a first round grade are gone.
NT/DT Da'Ron Payne is a beast of a man, very hard to move vs the run, and the type that can push interior lineman backwards vs the pass.
Payne in 2017 totaled 53 tackles, 45 of which came against the run ... tallied one sack (-7 yards) while adding a team-high eight quarterback hurries, three pass breakups, an interception and one fumble recovery
But his impact is beyond numbers, teams had trouble running at him and his pass effort made the job easier for the guys on the edge. Hargrave is slow, weak vs the run, and marginal at best as a an interior rush man. A player like Payne is scheme versatile ( 4-3, Nickle, Goal Line ) , and don't be fooled by the numbers we have a soft middle vs the run that would have been exploited more often if the opposing team wasn't usually chasing points from Ben and the offense.
Yeah, I'd be okay with Payne in round one. Not over Evans though.
I like Evans. He's a speedy type vs the run or pass, very solid in tackling, hits with power and is nimble enough in coverage. A true 3 down ILB, he reminds be a bit of a prime Lawrence Timmons, who was at one point our best player on the defense.
You'll like him. The difficult part is how much did the Alabama players around him help?
NT/DT Da'Ron Payne is a beast of a man, very hard to move vs the run, and the type that can push interior lineman backwards vs the pass.
Payne in 2017 totaled 53 tackles, 45 of which came against the run ... tallied one sack (-7 yards) while adding a team-high eight quarterback hurries, three pass breakups, an interception and one fumble recovery
But his impact is beyond numbers, teams had trouble running at him and his pass effort made the job easier for the guys on the edge. Hargrave is slow, weak vs the run, and marginal at best as a an interior rush man. A player like Payne is scheme versatile ( 4-3, Nickle, Goal Line ) , and don't be fooled by the numbers we have a soft middle vs the run that would have been exploited more often if the opposing team wasn't usually chasing points from Ben and the offense.
Yeah, I'd be okay with Payne in round one. Not over Evans though.
I like Evans. He's a speedy type vs the run or pass, very solid in tackling, hits with power and is nimble enough in coverage. A true 3 down ILB, he reminds be a bit of a prime Lawrence Timmons, who was at one point our best player on the defense.
You'll like him. The difficult part is how much did the Alabama players around him help?
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Ike,
The player you are talking about is Hargrave.
The player I'm talking about can stay on the field vs the run or pass. He can play 4-3, nickel, and anchor the goal line.
I guess you didn't catch the part where Payne lead his team with QB pressures, swatted three balls, and caught an interception last season? We need a better interior rush, and Payne can provide that.
Payne is also about as good as a run defender as you see at the DT position with range to make either solo or assisted tackles.
All of the past great Steeler defenses had a very good to great DT/NT. Payne is not Hampton or Steed, he's a playmaker.
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I guess you didn't catch the part when I wrote the Steelers won't draft a NT in round 1. I never mentioned Hargrave who was a 3rd. He is a situational specialist at NT with some pass rushing skills and is still learning. Any DT we would look for is going to be someone who can play on the 5 tech and move along the line. Those are few and far between. Suh, probably the best but plays the 3 tech in his system. We have Cam, Tuitt and Alaulu for the 5 tech and Tyson has NT experience. Dont forget LT Walton too. He has been productive when inserted. McDaniels will be gone and a run stuffing DL will be used on a late round pick.
We are not drafting a NT in the 1st.
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What kind of opponents are we talking about? Against professional opponents, Hargrave had 2 sacks (oddly, first two games, then none) and 4 TFL, 4 QH (that is hits, not hurries. Hurries is a vastly more subjective stat than Hits), a PD (more subjective than INT) and a FF.
Hargrave had way less tackles (Casey Hampton never had more than 43 tackles in a year and Hargrave had 32), but i dont know what the #snaps were for each player (mabye because Hargrave "can't" play the pass?) or their particular assignments. If your assignment is to take up blocks so someone else can get in and tackle, it doesn't show up anywhere, but you did your job.
The real issue may not be that Hargrave "can't" play passing downs (i would, probably, agree that it cant be every passing down), but that he is pulled because of Tomlins stupid defensive decisions....
Jerry didn't do the initial work to make Vince who/what he is. Butler did.
Shazier is pretty much the same player (with experience) that he was in college. So, I'd say the experience gained from playing is what helped him to become a Pro Bowler.Jerry gets no passes ... at least in this corner.
so what is your complaint against Olsavski
beats me it isn't like he could have Nostradamus-ed those two season ending injuries at the position.