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But yeah - It's not Tomlin's fault

Sometimes I wonder if it one's age, or outlook or whatever. Again, I think Tomlin should be fired. But I still blame the players more, because...they play.

I don't know, I don't want to paint people with a broad brush, but I know in the house I grew up in that it was my responsibility if I played poorly, not the coach. I feel that was more prevalent in my era as well. I know I have coached and people who are still coaching that I talk to say it is worse and worse every year with parents thinking their kids are great and do no wrong. Constant arguing over playing time. It's bad. At our school we had a coach that took a team further than it ever has been in the state playoffs and he was still dealing with parents bitching. Right after winning the district championship...I mean minutes after, he had a parent griping at him about something.

I don't coach football, but I do coach High School Girls soccer, and yes parents can be ridiculous. We were in the District 10 playoffs, and a Senior parent was emailing complaining about playing time for his daughter, we won the District 10 title and were going to the state playoffs, and he said she won't be playing anymore, let her quit playing right before the state playoffs.
 
Don't forget the punt at the beginning of the 4th quarter, 4th and 1, and the call is to try to get Cleveland to jump offsides with out punt unit on the field. 1. Cleveland is up double digits, they have no desire to attempt to block that punt. 2. We tried to get them to jump, then took the delay of game. How about leaving the ******* offense on the field to try to get them to jump!!!

While I absolutely agree they should have brought the offense out and just rammed the ******* ball down the Browns throat. (That was the critical point of the game. I agree with Cope about "As the game turns" and the opening snap, but one could easily have pointed to that 4th & 1 as a moment where the Steelers could have turned the game, but chose not to.

All that said, I would bet dollars to donuts that the punt team had a trick play prepared if they got a look they wanted and they didn't get it. I'm pretty sure THAT's how that actually went down.
 
While I absolutely agree they should have brought the offense out and just rammed the ******* ball down the Browns throat. (That was the critical point of the game. I agree with Cope about "As the game turns" and the opening snap, but one could easily have pointed to that 4th & 1 as a moment where the Steelers could have turned the game, but chose not to.

All that said, I would bet dollars to donuts that the punt team had a trick play prepared if they got a look they wanted and they didn't get it. I'm pretty sure THAT's how that actually went down.

I'm in total agreement of just going for it, we lived in our fears there, but anyone, even the 4th string coach knows to watch for a fake punt there and to play that punt return safe, there was zero chance that Cleveland would be in a kind of return formation that would allow us to call a fake. If anyone on our coaching staff truly believed that, I'm shocked.
 
Don't forget the punt at the beginning of the 4th quarter, 4th and 1, and the call is to try to get Cleveland to jump offsides with out punt unit on the field. 1. Cleveland is up double digits, they have no desire to attempt to block that punt. 2. We tried to get them to jump, then took the delay of game. How about leaving the ******* offense on the field to try to get them to jump!!!

That was definitely one of the other three decisions I did not detail above, along with going for 2 when he shouldn't have, and not going for 2 when he should've. None of those make an iota of sense.
 
Absolutely he does. I think what I object to, and I don't want to speak for Cope, but I would assume he does, is this ALL On Tomlin crap. It is childish and simple. Just firing Tomlin won't help much if the players don't play better. And dammit, that is on the players. They are not lumps of clay with no responsibility here.

I never said it was "ALL On Tomlin." Pouncey, Ben, poor defensive performance...there's plenty of other blame to go around for this particular debacle. But people (especially the national media) love to give Tomlin props for his zero non-losing regular seasons -- after finishing those years with so many great records: 13-3, 12-4 twice, 11-5 -- when does HE (and not his "lumps of clay") become accountable for the Steelers' postseason failures? He is 3-7 in his last ten playoff games, and two of those wins were against teams fielding backup quarterbacks. The last two one-and-dones have been downright embarrassing. There's a disturbing pattern here.

Tomlin won't get fired, and he won't step down until he's good and ready. So, as fans, we're stuck in purgatory.
 
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when do you blame the players and when do you blame the coaches? To me it's about more than a game. In any 1 game, **** happens. Players make mistakes. You can't overreact to 1 game. When you look at a season you have to ask if the players are being put in positions to be successful? Basically, are the players being asked to do things they can actually do?

So when Spillane is covering Jarvis Landry, that's not Spliiane's fault. That's on the coaches.
When an OL that was perfectly fine at run blocking under Munchak all of a sudden can't pick up a yard vs a high school team, then it's on the coaches.
When you are using 2 TE sets and one of those TEs is Ebron who can't block for **** but your plays depend on him blocking, that's on the coaches

Both offensively and defensively, the steelers plans are far to easily spoiled. Tomlin talks about not living in his fears yet the gameplans are all based on fear. Everything is safe. All a defense has to do is keep the safeties deep and the steelers will abandon the long pass themselves. Stuff a couple runs and the steelers abandon it. Get to 3rd and long and the steeler defense will play soft and give up an easy completion.

It just seems like this team is pushing a boulder uphill far too often.
 
The big question is even if the Steelers somehow finish 11-5next season, which I dont think will, do you have ANY confidence that Tomlin can do well in the playoffs " he has given up an NFL record 43 points a game in 3 consecutive playoff games and in all 3 the team came out flat and listless. For such a guy with a reputation for being a motivator I have never seen a team that continuall comes out flat and loses to the dregs of the NFL at a record rate. he is not an X and O guy and he can't motivate so really what good is he ?
 
Long overdue but Covid restrictions have changed everything for me.

Here is what I think we already know:

Tomlin is staying through this nightmare.

Our schedule is so brutal next year that IF there is miraculously no salary cap at all (fantasyland), we would lose enough to keep us out of the playoffs WITH everyone back we had THIS year.

We won't have everyone back and that is the reality.

Our YBC (yards before contact) is at an all league low. That is either scheme/proficiency or scheme and proficiency along with predictability. THAT we must fix or NO RB will survive.

We need a better offensive scheme and a new coordinator at the very least. AND, depending on which local reporter you believe, we need to get Tomlin's hands off the "Dadgum" defense or get a new D coordinator that has more control and the aptitude to actually scheme against the offensive TEAM we play each week...not play the same scheme, tendencies and sub-packages regardless of who the opponent is.

Aside from the list of players that we shouldn't chase, (BB, Pouncey, JuJu, Hilton, Villy, and Bud), we should reload along the OL as any new QB will benefit from a dependable running game. We MUST bring in an offensive line savant to teach run blocking vs pass blocking as this year's OL played too upright in both and didn't have knee bend in either for the most part. This is why we had no push in the run game and got pushed back into the QB in the passing game.

After looking at who is out there, MY first choice would be Philly's OL coach Jeff Stoutland. Why? He has a resume going back to 1993 as an OL coach/run game coordinator AND he worked a miracle in Philly this year with a rag-tag replacement OL and still managed to get good blocking and his YBC averaged a full yard more than ours. My second choice would be Hank Fraley from the Lions. Different resume but similar results. IF we get one of these two guys to take over the OL, we are moving in the right direction. Stoutland has some nice Youtube interviews on the "art of run blocking" worth watching.

Second, I give the offense to Canada. He has worked in a myriad of offensive schemes and styles (many of which he tailored himself to suit the talent he had). He would be familiar with the offense we currently run and could add by subtraction/substitution and create a scheme to help whomever is in our backfield next year. Fichtner's mojo was in small college programs where the depth of knowledge, preparation, and sophistication was weaker at that level and at the time. The plays aren't all bad but BB calling the plays was the only times we were dependable and less predictable (THIS has been going on for years, with multiple coordinators and BB has hidden their collective warts, IMO).

On D, we need to find out WHO our players will be next year and assuming we won't have the talent we had this year, WE MUST learn to formulate a game plan for EACH opponent, each week. We will need to cover our weaknesses with more individual game planning. This has not been a strength of MT's. He likes to go to the game with the same plan regardless of who we are playing and just execute better. A good coach finds the weaknesses AHEAD of the game and PLANS to exploit those weaknesses. We aren't doing this. I don't know if Butler is dadgum stupid, (to the contrary, I've heard from coaches and players that he remembers all kinds of things and scheme variations) but something has to give here. You cannot play great for stretches and poorly for stretches without blaming the coaches...we have had the same players in both situations. As much as I hate him, "Hairball" is a good coach and he EXPOSED our weaknesses and EXPLOITED them with lesser talent. He changed his identity to maximize the skill players use and downplay their weaknesses. Also, he exposed us to the rest of the league who were watching.

Now, we have a new OC and a new OL coach. Regardless of whether BB is back or Rudy is in there, we need to pound the rock. I go to Baltimore and make my opponent weaker by taking a reliable if not severely under-rated RB off of their roster. I make an off to Gus Edwards. He is their most dependable running back and at 28 has never had a season under 5 YPC (I doubt anyone can say that). He is not as "splashy" as Dobbins but will run downhill and can break tackles and run. He has an NFL resume, so you know what you are getting. He is also a FA who has never been paid over 800k/yr and may feel underappreciated. They may do it to him again.

IF he is not available, I make a "play" for Damien Williams of the Chiefs who sat out this year due to Covid. Technically, his last year will still "toll" into 2021 but he had a better YPC than any of ther replacements this year including Clyde Edwards-Hellaire. He might cost us a pick or trade but he may be there and "a bird in the hand...".

I go into the draft thinking "trenches" all the way in the beginning. If I can land a road-grader with the athletic talent to be taught to be a good pass-protector, I go get him. I would go after a good T like Darrisaw, Little or Leatherwood in the 1st and get a guy like Dickerson/Cleveland later.

I throw in McGrone as a OLB/ILB earlier or hit a guy like Werner later. We need help in the middle and on the outside and a player like McGrone is from Michigan (Bush has a partner) and he could be a player like Timmons, who started at OLB and moved to ILB. He has played both spots already. Fill the gaps in the draft with guys like Zaven Collins DE/OLB, Dynami Brown WR, and Bobby Brown DT and may get a shot at an under-rated QB like Ridder, Mond or Ehlinger (who would make a nice COP QB to run the RPO or even switch to TE).

Where this still leaves us weak is at TE but I think Rader might be ready to play the Jessie James role and can block some. We really need another Heath or a dynamic TE like Kittle or Kelce to help with our transition offense. Kittle went in round 5 because he was not used much but had speed and COD to go with 42 career catches in school. We need to find that guy if possible because Ebron is not a "Steeler" IMO. Steelers are tough, but not flashy. We won our most recent SBs with tough not flashy players and we can do it again. Our coach is not going to squash the BS celebrating ME doing my job players so we need someone in the locker room who will. Let's go get those guys and play a brand of smashmouth we haven't seen for awhile...regardless of our record. That's got my vote!
 
The big question is even if the Steelers somehow finish 11-5next season, which I dont think will, do you have ANY confidence that Tomlin can do well in the playoffs " he has given up an NFL record 43 points a game in 3 consecutive playoff games and in all 3 the team came out flat and listless. For such a guy with a reputation for being a motivator I have never seen a team that continuall comes out flat and loses to the dregs of the NFL at a record rate. he is not an X and O guy and he can't motivate so really what good is he ?

He is a motivator that is why there is many winning seasons. What he isn't is an X and O coach. His handling of the D in the playoff game clearly shows that. Many late season collapses show that. No fan should have any confidence in the team doing anything in the playoffs. The outcomes are getting worse not better. The quicker some fans come to grips with this the better for their sanity. Because we know we are locked into Tomlin. For season better for playoff worse. I was back n forth on the fence for a long time. But reality is there for us to look at. We have a decade of fail to examine. For me Rooney gets the biggest fail designation. He is satisfied with participation trophies. He has to be he is allowing it to continue. Just remember the factory of sadness beat us with their head coach in his basement. Our teams title moving forward should be the factory of playoff sadness.

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when do you blame the players and when do you blame the coaches? To me it's about more than a game. In any 1 game, **** happens. Players make mistakes. You can't overreact to 1 game. When you look at a season you have to ask if the players are being put in positions to be successful? Basically, are the players being asked to do things they can actually do?

So when Spillane is covering Jarvis Landry, that's not Spliiane's fault. That's on the coaches.
When an OL that was perfectly fine at run blocking under Munchak all of a sudden can't pick up a yard vs a high school team, then it's on the coaches.
When you are using 2 TE sets and one of those TEs is Ebron who can't block for **** but your plays depend on him blocking, that's on the coaches

Both offensively and defensively, the steelers plans are far to easily spoiled. Tomlin talks about not living in his fears yet the gameplans are all based on fear. Everything is safe. All a defense has to do is keep the safeties deep and the steelers will abandon the long pass themselves. Stuff a couple runs and the steelers abandon it. Get to 3rd and long and the steeler defense will play soft and give up an easy completion.

It just seems like this team is pushing a boulder uphill far too often.

The Buffalo game should've made that obvious to everyone. 1st half, game is competitive and close 9-7 at halftime, we're shutting Diggs down(1 catch I think). Going into the locker room McDermott tells the sideline reporter, "there's alot of adjustments that need made" Tomlin to the sideline reporter, "we just need to execute better"
Second half, Buffalo dominates us, moving Diggs in motion to get him freed up and using their RB out of the backfield a ton.
 
The big question is even if the Steelers somehow finish 11-5next season, which I dont think will, do you have ANY confidence that Tomlin can do well in the playoffs " he has given up an NFL record 43 points a game in 3 consecutive playoff games and in all 3 the team came out flat and listless. For such a guy with a reputation for being a motivator I have never seen a team that continuall comes out flat and loses to the dregs of the NFL at a record rate. he is not an X and O guy and he can't motivate so really what good is he ?

If we go 11-5 with that first place record, I'll freakin take it. Next year's schedule is much tougher than this year's.
 
The big question is even if the Steelers somehow finish 11-5next season, which I dont think will, do you have ANY confidence that Tomlin can do well in the playoffs " he has given up an NFL record 43 points a game in 3 consecutive playoff games and in all 3 the team came out flat and listless. For such a guy with a reputation for being a motivator I have never seen a team that continuall comes out flat and loses to the dregs of the NFL at a record rate. he is not an X and O guy and he can't motivate so really what good is he ?

I don’t think the problem is that he can’t motivate. When a team looks flat to me, it most often means they were unprepared, not unmotivated. You can have Red Bull flowing through your veins and still look like a steaming pile of crap if you are a slower 250lb ILB being asked to cover a speedy WR. Mike Tomlin is what he is; a good cheerleader who can relate to the players and get them to follow. He’d make a great assistant to a more strategic HC for a top level team, and he’d be a fine HC for a club who is satisfied with middling or slightly above results year in and year out.

The question we have to ask ourselves as fans, and the Rooneys as owners, is are we content with being that middling to slightly above club, year in and year out, or do we demand something more. I demand more and my wallet is going with me.
 
Part I will never understand. Show me the difference between Cowher and Tomlin's success. Cowher regular season 149-90-1 one Super Bowl one Super Bowl Loss. Tomlin 145-78-1 One Super Bowl one Super Bowl loss. Cowher gone when the team was still stacked with talent after years of shoe string budgets. Tomlin has had everything at his disposal and you are gonna rebuild with him. C'mon man.

One big difference with Cowher....he only had a HOF QB at the infancy of his career for 3 years.....Tomlin has had a veteran HOF QB at his disposal the entire run here. IMO, He should have won more than he has. And, Tomlin has a record of inexplicable losses to teams with losing records. Personally, I've seen enough of MT. Very good guy I'm sure; players seem to like him, etc. But I've seen enough. This guy gets schooled in the post season...when he makes it....every time.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Heyward on what went wrong: “If I could culminate, we didn’t do what we’re good at when it came to stopping the run, getting turnovers, playing with a lead. Our execution wasn’t up to par and it’s playoff football. I attribute that to us not being ready. That’s all I can say.”</p>— Mike Prisuta (@DVEMike) <a href="https://twitter.com/DVEMike/status/1350191249605750786?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
What I expect a player to say.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Heyward on what went wrong: “If I could culminate, we didn’t do what we’re good at when it came to stopping the run, getting turnovers, playing with a lead. Our execution wasn’t up to par and it’s playoff football. I attribute that to us not being ready. That’s all I can say.”</p>— Mike Prisuta (@DVEMike) <a href="https://twitter.com/DVEMike/status/1350191249605750786?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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One big difference with Cowher....he only had a HOF QB at the infancy of his career for 3 years.....Tomlin has had a veteran HOF QB at his disposal the entire run here. IMO, He should have won more than he has. And, Tomlin has a record of inexplicable losses to teams with losing records. Personally, I've seen enough of MT. Very good guy I'm sure; players seem to like him, etc. But I've seen enough. This guy gets schooled in the post season...when he makes it....every time.

Cowher had a HOF RB for 10 of his 15 years. That’s a big difference as well. Tomlin hasn’t had one.


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Well to be fair Bell could have been if his head would have been on straight.

]

well he had a chance , he took Mendenhall in the 1st rd. in 2008. He wasnt terrible, but kind of flaked out..
He could have had matt forte.

Then for his next trick! Limas Sweed! in the 2nd round.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Heyward on what went wrong: “If I could culminate, we didn’t do what we’re good at when it came to stopping the run, getting turnovers, playing with a lead. Our execution wasn’t up to par and it’s playoff football. I attribute that to us not being ready. That’s all I can say.”</p>— Mike Prisuta (@DVEMike) <a href="https://twitter.com/DVEMike/status/1350191249605750786?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I bet over the last number of years of disappointments, if you did a search, you'd find Cameron Heyward saying "We weren't ready," or "We didn't play well enough."

Does anyone ever ask him why? Or how about this..."Mr. Heyward, as a 10 year veteran, why weren't YOU ready to play this game?" or "Why do you consistently disappear in big games, you and your buddy Tuitt?"

I might vomit if I have to hear Cam Heyward say ever again "We weren't ready."
 
The Buffalo game should've made that obvious to everyone. 1st half, game is competitive and close 9-7 at halftime, we're shutting Diggs down(1 catch I think). Going into the locker room McDermott tells the sideline reporter, "there's alot of adjustments that need made" Tomlin to the sideline reporter, "we just need to execute better"
Second half, Buffalo dominates us, moving Diggs in motion to get him freed up and using their RB out of the backfield a ton.

So, if Tomlin woulda said, "We gotta go in there, gather, and adjust," would you feel better abut the loss?

Again, this is no defense of Tomlin. It is more the arguments used. I have always felt the adjustments thing...what happens more is one team just plays better. I think the "adjustments" line has been used by coaches to make them appear real smart.

I think Tomlin is not a very good coach. I don't don't know whether he adjusts or doesn't, if he motivates or doesn't, what the hell they do in that lab they have over there, I just know they badly disappointed again this year. That should be enough to look somewhere else. Sadly, it isn't.
 
One more thing on adjustments...if the game plan stinks to begin with, how do you adjust it? You can't shine a turd.
 
He is a motivator that is why there is many winning seasons. What he isn't is an X and O coach. His handling of the D in the playoff game clearly shows that. Many late season collapses show that. No fan should have any confidence in the team doing anything in the playoffs. The outcomes are getting worse not better. The quicker some fans come to grips with this the better for their sanity. Because we know we are locked into Tomlin. For season better for playoff worse. I was back n forth on the fence for a long time. But reality is there for us to look at. We have a decade of fail to examine. For me Rooney gets the biggest fail designation. He is satisfied with participation trophies. He has to be he is allowing it to continue. Just remember the factory of sadness beat us with their head coach in his basement. Our teams title moving forward should be the factory of playoff sadness.

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Steelers opponents are averaging over 40 points in their last three playoff games, and we had the 2018 late season collapse sandwiched in there.

By keeping Tomlin, Art II obviously doesn't care about winning championships, so why should we continue to care about the Steelers?
 
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The RB position is nowhere nearly as important, and wasn't when Cowher coached.

Nice try, though.
I don't know if I am buying. If you don't have a balanced offense teams can zero in on you. Easier to defend. Sure this is a passing league but in December/Jan you still have to be run capable. Can you win it all lopsided? Sure. But perhaps not the norm. As your odds are against it. You better have a coach that can x and o the hell out of the offense and defense. In other words Steelers have to be able to run the ball effectively.

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