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Allen? Dangerfield? Somebody else? Analyzing the Steelers' backup safety battle

BLITZ said:
Bottom line is Davis was trusted by the coaching staff to play more snaps than almost anyone else on the team. I think they have a better idea of talent than coach. or any of us for that matter.
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I think the fact that they didn't draft a FS says a lot. Something missed on a few. As in the draft they attacked their biggest weaknesses as well as free agency. For neither to sniff a FS?

All anyone needs to know.
 
slashsteel said:
Davis isn't in man coverage, which is what your sentence applies to. He isn't a corner. He is a FS, whose job is to shorten the field by keep the long positive plays to a minimum.

DUH
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Let's start out agreeing. Our pass rush rocked. Okay, so why did our pass defense rate 23rd overall in yardage surrendered and allowed opposing QB's to average 95.2 passer rating?

Ponder that. The answer, if you were honest, is only Haden was solid in coverage last year. Davis doesn't rate among the better free safety's or even average if you want to use 3rd party data.

He makes less plays on the ball relative to his peers at the same position. Why? And he leads his team in miss tackles, some of which turn into big plays

Checkmate.

Or double DUH.

PS: Davis does play some man coverage so to say he isn't in man coverage is just wrong.
 
slashsteel said:
I think the fact that they didn't draft a FS says a lot. Something missed on a few. As in the draft they attacked their biggest weaknesses as well as free agency. For neither to sniff a FS?

All anyone needs to know.
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And the fact that some say safety has little depth, ( I wonder who's in that camp: ) underscores the Steelers problem. If the Steelers thought so much of Davis they would not have given Morgan ( an older player ) a lot of money last year and spent a first round pick on a safety in the same year. When you give a free agent that type of money, it's for a starting role.

The swung and missed badly on Morgan. Not drafting an upside safety in the mid to late rounds of this draft was an issue.
 
NFL player rankings by 3rd parties. The Sean Davis debate.

Some think Davis is a weak link, others defend him.

Okay, what do 3rd party sources say? Let's check Athlon's for openers

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-defensive-back-rankings 27th?

They are much higher on Davis, Pro Football Focus rates him 40th at safety.

Anyone can add more, links upon request. Then we can take the mean average.

My quick prediction is some people will troll this thread, and have no interest learning or seeing that those in the media business don't think much of Davis. Let's see if I'm off the mark on that call.
 
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Coach said:
And the fact that some say safety has little depth, ( I wonder who's in that camp: ) underscores the Steelers problem. If the Steelers thought so much of Davis they would not have given Morgan ( an older player ) a lot of money last year and spent a first round pick on a safety in the same year. When you give a free agent that type of money, it's for a starting role.

The swung and missed badly on Morgan. Not drafting an upside safety in the mid to late rounds of this draft was an issue.
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Morgan was not brought in to play FS. That is a fact. Checkmate.

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Coach said:
Some think Davis is a weak link, others defend him.

Okay, what do 3rd party sources say? Let's check Athlon's for openers

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-defensive-back-rankings 27th?

They are much higher on Davis, Pro Football Focus rates him 40th at safety.

Anyone can add more, links upon request. Then we can take the mean average.

My quick prediction is some people will troll this thread, and have no interest learning or seeing that those in the media business don't think much of Davis. Let's see if I'm off the mark on that call.
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why the **** would you think this **** deserves another thread?
 
Vader said:
I think Edmunds played more actual snaps. Davis missed a game so I'm pretty sure Edmunds had more total snaps.
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Shhh you're correct. Let Ike think he is.
 
Coach said:
Let's start out agreeing. Our pass rush rocked. Okay, so why did our pass defense rate 23rd overall in yardage surrendered and allowed opposing QB's to average 95.2 passer rating?

Ponder that. The answer, if you were honest, is only Haden was solid in coverage last year. Davis doesn't rate among the better free safety's or even average if you want to use 3rd party data.

He makes less plays on the ball relative to his peers at the same position. Why? And he leads his team in miss tackles, some of which turn into big plays

Checkmate.

Or double DUH.

PS: Davis does play some man coverage so to say he isn't in man coverage is just wrong.
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You are playing checkers not chess. It has already been pointed out to you about Davis if you can't grasp what they told you that is your issue. But to blame Davis for the secondary woes when Burns stunk up the joint,and Sense was only a stop gap is just plain silly. And you can't seem to grasp it was his first year at playing FS. So he did well considering. I now return you to your agenda.


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slashsteel said:
You are playing checkers not chess. It has already been pointed out to you about Davis if you can't grasp what they told you that is your issue. But to blame Davis for the secondary woes when Burns stunk up the joint,and Sense was only a stop gap is just plain silly. And you can't seem to grasp it was his first year at playing FS. So he did well considering. I now return you to your agenda.


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Oh I agree on Burns. You must have been one of those yahoos who paned me when I said Burns was not a good pick, and wanted X. Howard. Davis is probably or worst starter on defense in the base 4-3. Or do you disagree with that point? The best thing you could say is he's a cheap player.
 
Coach said:
Davis also played SS. Have you figured out that Davis does play man coverage too? Still in Checkmate... Play again.
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Playing man coverage here and there doesn't mean he does it frequently. No **** Davis also played SS but they moved him to FS and brought S's in to play SS. Go back to playing with your crayons and let the big boys talk football.

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Coach said:
Oh I agree on Burns. You must have been one of those yahoos who paned me when I said Burns was not a good pick, and wanted X. Howard. Davis is probably or worst starter on defense in the base 4-3. Or do you disagree with that point? The best thing you could say is he's a cheap player.
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Coach your opinions change constantly in regards to the draft so to say you wanted someone is silly. You wanted a shitload of players. Eventually you will be right. More than often you are wrong. Ed Oliver says hi.

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Coach said:
And the fact that some say safety has little depth, ( I wonder who's in that camp: ) underscores the Steelers problem. If the Steelers thought so much of Davis they would not have given Morgan ( an older player ) a lot of money last year and spent a first round pick on a safety in the same year. When you give a free agent that type of money, it's for a starting role.

The swung and missed badly on Morgan. Not drafting an upside safety in the mid to late rounds of this draft was an issue.
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Dumb ***.....follow closely. Burnett was signed to play SS in FA. Davis was moved to FS. Edmunds was drafted as a SS to learn behind Burnett, and be the $ backer or extra safety in the dime. Burnett was injured all through camp and Edmunds took all the snaps...showed he wasn’t overwhelmed and won the starting SS spot. Burnett was regulated to the $ backer role.

The miss on Burnett was his injury, and then he soured playing the role given to him after Edmunds won the starting job. They have players who several writers who follow the team say could play safety (Hilton, Sutton, the couple players they signed after the draft). Obviously they felt the players they drafted were better value than any safety left on their board.


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Coach said:
Great point, Davis was on the field the most. Yet he has the few big plays. Keep posting.
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I’ll keep posting and at the same time show how much of a Dumb *** you are as well.

Your definition of big plays is myopic and highlights your total lack of football acumen. There’s more to big plays than INTs with safeties.

The back end defense in the first 2/3 of the schedule was designed to reduce long plays from scrimmage. The safeties were assigned keep plays in front of them to limit the long gains. They reduced the long gains by HALF in 2018 from 2017. I’ll say that constitutes big plays. The later 1/3 of the season they let the safeties play more on the ball, with some success with PDs. Not enough T/O for sure, but that’s the maturation process for two players playing the same position two consecutive years.


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Coach said:
Shhh you're correct. Let Ike think he is.
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No Dumb *** you are wrong. The numbers Vader presented included ST snaps. Davis had more Defensive snaps. If you learn to follow threads you would have been enlightened of the fact.


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Coach said:
Davis also played SS. Have you figured out that Davis does play man coverage too? Still in Checkmate... Play again.
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Lord you are an embarrassment to this board.

I don’t have enough crayons to show you that FS/SS coverage schemes are not the same as CB coverage schemes.

FS/SS coverages are dictated by the numerous offense alignments and packages. On most passing situations they are playing zone coverage or on occasion being handed off a receiver from a corner or LB which can turn into single man. The majority of the time the safety is rolling over to the ball to help with the coverage. But it’s all predicated on packages (nickel/dime or even dollar) used.

You can use your 3rd party interpretations of the same statistics. Whether it’s PFF, Atholon (your term), Street/Smith, Lindy’s or the Sporting News, they will all opine something different. An opinion isn’t a fact Dumb ***, it’s an observation of interpretations.


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Ike Kelly said:
I’ll keep posting and at the same time show how much of a Dumb *** you are as well.

Your definition of big plays is myopic and highlights your total lack of football acumen. There’s more to big plays than INTs with safeties.

The back end defense in the first 2/3 of the schedule was designed to reduce long plays from scrimmage. The safeties were assigned keep plays in front of them to limit the long gains. They reduced the long gains by HALF in 2018 from 2017. I’ll say that constitutes big plays. The later 1/3 of the season they let the safeties play more on the ball, with some success with PDs. Not enough T/O for sure, but that’s the maturation process for two players playing the same position two consecutive years.


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Print this out coach to reference for your next Davis tangent. Stick to posting less, for you less equals more. It is like every day we have to school dumb and dumber. They should give us teachers salaries.

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Ike Kelly said:
Lord you are an embarrassment to this board.

I don’t have enough crayons to show you that FS/SS coverage schemes are not the same as CB coverage schemes.

FS/SS coverages are dictated by the numerous offense alignments and packages. On most passing situations they are playing zone coverage or on occasion being handed off a receiver from a corner or LB which can turn into single man. The majority of the time the safety is rolling over to the ball to help with the coverage. But it’s all predicated on packages (nickel/dime or even dollar) used.

You can use your 3rd party interpretations of the same statistics. Whether it’s PFF, Atholon (your term), Street/Smith, Lindy’s or the Sporting News, they will all opine something different. An opinion isn’t a fact Dumb ***, it’s an observation of interpretations.


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Thanks I didn't feel like breaking it all down for him as nothing sinks in. His inability to grasp anything and learn when it comes to football is worrisome.

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Coach said:
Oh I agree on Burns. You must have been one of those yahoos who paned me when I said Burns was not a good pick, and wanted X. Howard. Davis is probably or worst starter on defense in the base 4-3. Or do you disagree with that point? The best thing you could say is he's a cheap player.
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Posts like this are the ones that make people tired of coach, always a backhanded Pat in the back, is like a self-glory hole .

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Litos said:
Posts like this are the ones that make people tired of coach, always a backhanded Pat in the back, is like a self-glory hole .

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On a site that has no problem recognizing deserving posters.

Dumb and dumber offer very little across the board.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
It's all about the agenda. Maybe they can bring in Ed Reed to "mentor" Davis. Such a great idea, it works for everything even head coaches. Maybe they can call donahoe and have him come in and " mentor" Colbert, since you hate that pick so much. Another great idea.
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BGB, you're a CLOSE RUNNER UP w/ the funnies, bro!!!
slashsteel said:
What gets me about coach is inability to soak in information and adjust an opinion based upon it. It is ok to be wrong, it is ok for an opinion to change. But coach refuses to be educated. I can't remember a time his opinion has changed. Coach I give you props for not starting ten thousand spastic threads lately, this is your next step in development. Adjusting when need be.

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He'd rather point out my blunder about Dan Marino...
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
It's all about the agenda. Maybe they can bring in Ed Reed to "mentor" Davis. Such a great idea, it works for everything even head coaches. Maybe they can call donahoe and have him come in and " mentor" Colbert, since you hate that pick so much. Another great idea.
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Coach said:
And what gets me is how some here defend mediocrity. I can show you several 3rd party at rating systems that show Davis isn’t a good player, quite the opposite and people act as if it doesn’t matter! Can you Davis ditto heads show me the reverse? NO. So who’s correct? And who refuses to be educated?
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Coach said:
A joke. Okay let’s use 3rd party ranking systems Ike. Want tally them up and see where David rates? Calling you out.

Of course you don’t! They are with me and you know it. Try letting that sink in. Key word is try, you can’t and won’t.

Also you might get a clue that picked on DB’s sort of get extra tackles because their man often is open. DUH


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Show us the sites/links. Now ask yourself 'how credible are the sources'???
















































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