Talking DB's Is it scheme or talent?

[awboatguy]

i just want to see some more gay boykin in the slot.

lmao!

 

[kev4heels]

This team lacks CB's that can play tight man to man coverage.
Instead we play off and hope the front-7 gets to the QB in time to force a bad throw.
Problem is that most good QB's get rid of the ball in < 3 seconds on average.

what would fix the issue. get CB's who can play man.

 

[kev4heels]

I see you made it over here to post your negativity huh Joel.

 

[ZACKB]

This is spot on. The reason we are switching away from it some is we don't have the talent to play man that effectively.

 

[Litos]

This is spot on. The reason we are switching away from it some is we don't have the talent to play man that effectively.

we used to play cover zone on the side of the second CB but when Ike was on his prime he was all by himself. We miss him more than we really acknowledge

 

[insaniti]

Lol, Objective reasoning. Did you not read the facts I presented? You have given me the list? Sorry pal, the Steelers like short corners, and the taller ones we drafted are either CUT or backups. Let's review:

2015

Round 2 ) Golson - 5'9 178 pounds.
Round 4 Grant 5'10"

2014

Round 5 ) Richardson - Who cares he was CUT.

2013

Round 4 ( cost us our 3rd next year ). Thomas. Listed at 5-9" tall. Bench warmer
Round 5 Hawthorne - Who cares he was CUT

2012

Round 7 Frederick. 5'10 tall, he was CUT

2011

Round 3 Brown. No longer on the team
Round 4 Allen - Bench player with a huge cap number. Don't care how tall he is, he gives up too many big plays.

^^^ There you have it. This is why our DB's are such a mess. Add in losing McCain who is the best of the bunch of the names I listed, and over paying for Cortez Allen and you can call it a day. At least you admit losing Lewis was a gamble, but smart GM's don't gamble on young corners who can play. They get re-singed in free agency.

Yup I gave you a list in another thread you were bitching about short corners. They draft them, they don't always work out. Allen has all the tools, had a bad year, glad you don't run the team. You prob would ahve cut Ike when he got benched by Cowher... Lewis was a gamble, and you say smart GM's don't gamble on CB's who can play...but where was this huge market for Lewis the great? One team offered him a contract, and it was a very reasonable contract, especially considering some of the CB contracts lately.

Then you go on in another post and say that Butler isn't impressing...IT'S BEEN TWO ******* GAMES! Did you expect some HUGE change going from a guy who's been here for 10+ years to another guy who's been here studying UNDER that same guy for 10+ years? We still have lots of new pieces finding their roles, Allen wasn't as bad as you make him out to be against NE, everyone got torched in that game. But you never have been one to give anyone time, it's always NOW NOW NOW!

we used to play cover zone on the side of the second CB but when Ike was on his prime he was all by himself. We miss him more than we really acknowledge

If Allen can get back to how he started his career, he can be that type of player for us. His first start was against the Bengals, and he was put on AJ Green. Green ended the game with 9 catches for 93 yards...on 18 TARGETS! They tested him all game, and he held up pretty good, didn't give up a TD, no long passes, no big plays, against one of the best WR in the game. He has the skill set, he has the size, just needs to get his confidence back

 

[Litos]

Yup I gave you a list in another thread you were bitching about short corners. They draft them, they don't always work out. Allen has all the tools, had a bad year, glad you don't run the team. You prob would ahve cut Ike when he got benched by Cowher... Lewis was a gamble, and you say smart GM's don't gamble on CB's who can play...but where was this huge market for Lewis the great? One team offered him a contract, and it was a very reasonable contract, especially considering some of the CB contracts lately.

Then you go on in another post and say that Butler isn't impressing...IT'S BEEN TWO ******* GAMES! Did you expect some HUGE change going from a guy who's been here for 10+ years to another guy who's been here studying UNDER that same guy for 10+ years? We still have lots of new pieces finding their roles, Allen wasn't as bad as you make him out to be against NE, everyone got torched in that game. But you never have been one to give anyone time, it's always NOW NOW NOW!



If Allen can get back to how he started his career, he can be that type of player for us. His first start was against the Bengals, and he was put on AJ Green. Green ended the game with 9 catches for 93 yards...on 18 TARGETS! They tested him all game, and he held up pretty good, didn't give up a TD, no long passes, no big plays, against one of the best WR in the game. He has the skill set, he has the size, just needs to get his confidence back

I remember that, also when he had to cover Gronk on the nickel and he was able to contain him pretty well. They need to fix him ASAP

 

[diver]

Who does have the talent? Who are these shutdown corners? Outside of Sherman and Revis, who has them?

I'd be willing to bet that on every team message board, with the possible exception of Seattle and New York right now, fans are lamenting the fact that their team can't cover anybody. Wit the way the rules are enforced, I just don't think, unless you have a special, special guy, there are shutdowns anymore. One overlooked factor to all of this is where you can and cannot hit the QB. The QB is going to be a hell of a lot more accurate when he doesn't have to worry about anyone around his legs.

The Eagles paid $65 million for Byron Maxwell, who can't cover anyone and says he is tired. Most of the board here would have been creaming themselves had the Steelers signed Maxwell. Yet, would they really be any better off then they are now?

To sum up I think it is a combination of talent and rules moreso than scheme. As to the former, I just think those guys are rare as hell, because of the rules. So get used to the modern NFL. You'd better be able to score.

 

[Stryker]

Weaknesses:
1. Secondary
2. Kicking (FGs & XPs) KO is great.

Strengths:
1.Punting
2. DL
3. LBs
4. OL
5. WR
6. RB
7. QB
8.TEs
9. KO Coverage

Our Punt Returning is good with AB, but not yet a strength. Our Punt Coverage is getting there, but our Punter is the reason why it's so good.

Of our negatives, I can see our Kicking improving.

Our glaring weakness in the secondary can be helped with quick, consistent pressure. We got it last week. We didn't week 1. Press coverage may have helped us disrupt timing and get to Brady, but we didn't commit to it. By the End of the year, I expect us to press quick pass attack teams.

We also don't have interceptions yet, but if we keep getting pressure, they will start coming. We're getting better pressure than we have in a couple years, and should pass 35 sacks this season. We hit 50 and we're a SB contender.

 

[Vader]

Somebody is coving these WRs. The Steelers are in the bottom 5 of almost every single passing stat and lead the league in TD passes allowed. So that means 31 other teams are doing it better. It isn't about finding another Revis or Sherman. Does NE have one? Nope. But somehow they are much better at passing defense.

 

[diver]

Somebody is coving these WRs. The Steelers are in the bottom 5 of almost every single passing stat and lead the league in TD passes allowed. So that means 31 other teams are doing it better. It isn't about finding another Revis or Sherman. Does NE have one? Nope. But somehow they are much better at passing defense.

I disagree with that. Passing stats are going through the roof over the last few years. You have said this yourself. You have stated that you do not consider a QB today, like Brady, on par with guys from the past because of the rules that allow such stats. I agree with your assessment there. I just don't think except for a few places, anybody is consistently covering receivers. The cards are stacked against that in many ways today. NE gave up 351 to Ben. I think damn near 250 to Tyrod Taylor. They aren't consistently covering anyone, either. Who covers their guys? Seattle? In the 4th of the SB last year, Brady went something like 12-14 for around 150 and 2 TDs against supposedly the best.

I am not defending Tomlin. I just think those days of consistently shutting someone down are over. You'd better score.

 

[Vader]

I disagree with that. Passing stats are going through the roof over the last few years. You have said this yourself. You have stated that you do not consider a QB today, like Brady, on par with guys from the past because of the rules that allow such stats. I agree with your assessment there. I just don't think except for a few places, anybody is consistently covering receivers. The cards are stacked against that in many ways today. NE gave up 351 to Ben. I think damn near 250 to Tyrod Taylor. They aren't consistently covering anyone, either. Who covers their guys? Seattle? In the 4th of the SB last year, Brady went something like 12-14 for around 150 and 2 TDs against supposedly the best.

I am not defending Tomlin. I just think those days of consistently shutting someone down are over. You'd better score.

I agree with that however you can't be the worst in the league at defense and win... can't happen. If defense isn't a big deal anymore than why is Tomlin drafting defense in the first round so often? Why draft Dupree? Why Jones? Why Shazier? Why Heyward, Tuitt and Hood? Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either defense is irrelevant and Tomlin doesn't know what he is doing OR defense is relevant and he hasn't been able to build a good one.

 

[stillwright]

We have a coach who can't detect nor develop secondary players despite his reputation as a DB guru, an unwarranted reputation if there ever was one.

Who has given him this reputation may I ask? The media?

 

[antdrewjosh]

Who has given him this reputation may I ask? The media?

His detractors so they can use it to tear him down. Let's ***** about the defense and forget the offense is top 3 or better in a offensive league.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What dies the offense have to do with our horrible secondary ? *****, no , talking about the thread topic and not just defending the Steelers blindly or stupidly like some.

I would rile you up so you can get yourself banned but I will let you live for awhile

 

[obxsteeler]

Lots of comments about how bad the secondary is. Still no response as to who we passed on over the last 3/4 years who could have fixed it. Sometimes the Troys and Ikes just aren't there.

 

[insaniti]

Lots of comments about how bad the secondary is. Still no response as to who we passed on over the last 3/4 years who could have fixed it. Sometimes the Troys and Ikes just aren't there.

Even if there's a list, it's going to be with hindsight and not an actual list of who people wanted that were available at the time. And for every CB someone lists, we lose someone they drafted instead, so they'll look for the busts like Hood and come up with a name that's playing well right now. Jones name will be a hot topic as well (I'll admit I wanted Tyler Eifert, who is just now starting to play like people thought he could...but no patience for Jones).

 

[bermudasteel]

Somebody is coving these WRs. The Steelers are in the bottom 5 of almost every single passing stat and lead the league in TD passes allowed. So that means 31 other teams are doing it better. It isn't about finding another Revis or Sherman. Does NE have one? Nope. But somehow they are much better at passing defense.

True. How many yards did our Ben put up on that "better passing defense"?

PITTSBURGH STEELERS
Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
B. Roethlisberger 26 38 351 1

A lot of folk here complain about the yardage our defense gives up every game. We gave up less in that game - yes, we lost by one touchdown. A loss is a loss, but, again - it was against a Pro Bowl QB and the mysterious communication problems. I'm not going to go into panic mode over the first game of the season...

 

[t-man]

Your skills in your prime were Al Bundyesque.

What's a fan to do? Option C. Vent. With tenured coaching and a GM who work 16 hour days I expect more. The Steelers in my opinion do not put enough emphasis on the CB position nor have retained some of their best players at CB.

This burns me. Everyone knows the league is slanted toward passing and taller receivers. Yet the Steelers continue to play the penny stocks in the draft for DB's, and draft shorter players. This goes against the current and logical thinking.

I'm a huge fan but I will not let blind patriotism trump objective reasoning.

Have you checked their head sizes? Maybe their heads are too big to play in the NFL.

Joe

 

[Vader]

Lots of comments about how bad the secondary is. Still no response as to who we passed on over the last 3/4 years who could have fixed it. Sometimes the Troys and Ikes just aren't there.

And they moved up to draft Troy right? So if they had stayed pat and not moved up and their secondary was bad everybody would use the excuse "Who was there?"... right? But the fact is that they haven't even tried. No trades (Bettis), no moving up (Troy) no FAs (Clark,Farrior,Kimo ETC). They just draft guys late and cut them.

True. How many yards did our Ben put up on that "better passing defense"?

PITTSBURGH STEELERS
Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
B. Roethlisberger 26 38 351 1

A lot of folk here complain about the yardage our defense gives up every game. We gave up less in that game - yes, we lost by one touchdown. A loss is a loss, but, again - it was against a Pro Bowl QB and the mysterious communication problems. I'm not going to go into panic mode over the first game of the season...

70 of Ben's yards came in garbage time. Before that he had 280 yards for 95% of the game. The offense had 14 points (1 TD) before that. So that "better passing defense" shut down Ben and this high powered offense. You can blame "communication problems" and cheating if you want but the Steelers had months to prepare for that game and they knew about the cheating and the "communication" problems. So it's on them.

 

[GI Steeler]

without having read entire thread, I think it has been lack of a pass rush. You dont need great DBs if you have a relentless rush. Our rush has sucked last few years

 

[Coach]

Have you checked their head sizes? Maybe their heads are too big to play in the NFL.

Joe

No, I have not, but Tomlin himself said S Thomas needs to be better above the neck. Zing.

 

[Coach]

Please come up with all 32 coaching staffs drafting hit/miss rate on CB's in the last 8 or so years so we can get a true gauge to argue with. You harping our failures 24/7 while demanding more from our staff as a fan is laughable. You say they suck and maybe they are the worst in the league. I don't know but I sure as hell know you don't either.

Stillwright,

Okay since you asked. I'll go back to 2008 draft and end at 2011. These are veteran players that we can judge.

I will list the good DB's that the Steelers passed and list the round where they were selected.

For the purpose of this response I will only list players who made the pro bowl. Running a fine tooth comb I could come up with MANY DB's that did not make the pro bowl, but are better than the ones we drafted.

Keep in mind Many top DB's were taken before we picked in round one, and I can't trade up to get them, but that doesn't mean we should not have done so.

Deal?

2008 pro bowl DB's.

round 1 : Brandon Flowers, we chose Mendenhall
round 3 Thomas DeCoud

2009 pro bowl DB's

round 2 Jairus Byrd
round 2 William Moore
***We picked K Lewis in round three.*** He was decent, then Colbert let our best drafted DB in years walk.
round 4 Glover Quin


2010 pro bowl DB's

round 1 Devin McCourty
round 2 T. J. Ward
round 4 Alterraun Verner
round 4 Darrell Stuckey
round 5 Kam Chancellor

2011 pro Bowl DB's

round 5 Richard Sherman

Does this post answer your question?

-Coach

 

[t-man]

No, I have not, but Tomlin himself said S Thomas needs to be better above the neck. Zing.

Hey, that's not a bad comeback, are you sure you're the same guy?

Joe

 

[Coach]

Hey, that's not a bad comeback, are you sure you're the same guy?

Joe

To quote the immortal Sergeant Hulka, I've got a hell of a sense of humor. Just don't call the Pope Francis, or he'll....