Kaboly says Steelers Listening to trade offers for Watt

[Fiji Mariner]

Comparing Watt to Harrison is dumb.

It’s the offseason Sheila, get over yourself

We can talk about mindless minutiae, player comparisons, team comparisons, draft/free agent comparisons, coaching comparisons ow whatever the hell we want to pass the time…or we can talk about the many ways the Mike, the meddler, the human hurdle to success, Mr. mediocrity, Captain Platitudes, the offensive Boa constrictor continues
To do less with more. It seems that topic has been pretty well covered though.

So if you’re insecure with other people comparing two players that played the same position, for the same team, under the same HC I’d suggest ya just don’t enter the conversation OR come up with some genius topic to discuss since you somehow feel like you’re the controller of message board topics/convos or what is intelligent to converse about.

Lmfao

There’s really not much comparing them, if ya talk about postseason play

One guy knew success and loved the taste of bacon
One guy still sitting in the corner looking at an INC on his report card, hoping someday to get a passing grade

 

[Coryea]

It’s the offseason Sheila, get over yourself

We can talk about mindless minutiae, player comparisons, team comparisons, draft/free agent comparisons, coaching comparisons ow whatever the hell we want to pass the time…or we can talk about the many ways the Mike, the meddler, the human hurdle to success, Mr. mediocrity, Captain Platitudes, the offensive Boa constrictor continues
To do less with more. It seems that topic has been pretty well covered though.

So if you’re insecure with other people comparing two players that played the same position, for the same team, under the same HC I’d suggest ya just don’t enter the conversation OR come up with some genius topic to discuss since you somehow feel like you’re the controller of message board topics/convos or what is intelligent to converse about.

Lmfao

There’s really not much comparing them, if ya talk about postseason play

One guy knew success and loved the taste of bacon
One guy still sitting in the corner looking at an INC on his report card, hoping someday to get a passing grade

One guy also had one of the best defensive minds ever calling his defense
While the other has a guy that wouldn't know a blitz or an adjustment if it slapped him in the face.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Waiting for Micah to sign so it goes up to 45m+

A distinct possibility.

They’ve been bitten in. The asZ with helmet swinger’s deal, why not go for two…………………



Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

James Harrison's 2007 game vs the Ravens just popped up on my facebook feed.

He wasn't doubled on any of his sacks, and his first sack he was unblocked because we stacked the line with 6 guys, someone, may have been Troy ran straight into Ogden at the snap, then dropped into coverage, allowing Harrison a free run at McNair.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

One guy also had one of the best defensive minds ever calling his defense
While the other has a guy that wouldn't know a blitz or an adjustment if it slapped him in the face.

Is that a Mike issue or an Austin issue?

I’m sure LeBeau had more latitude but the D he ran was LeBeau’s Lite under Mike (even more so towards the end of his time)

To think that Austin, a guy that’s been in football as long as he doesn’t know what a blitzing or adjustments are is laughable. **** average Joe posters here know that stuff. I’m sure he does too. In no way am I saying he’s got LeBeau’s skills and abilities cuz we’ll never get to see what he can actually do before he is scapegoated like the others that have come before him. I can safely assume he’s nowhere near LeBeau abilities though cuz he was a great mind where Austin is likely average at best.

Now does the master controller allow them? **** QBs can’t audible either. Master controller, or did all the QBs just forget that knowledge too? There is one constant to today’s mediocre Steelers.

It is a fact that the tighter the master controller’s stranglehold has become on every facet the more predictable and less successful things have become…hard to argue that.

If you think Austin has any sort of free will to do as he pleases I’d argue to the contrary on that. We’ll likely never see what he could do unimpeded. So kinda hard to accurately assess him or his knowledge imo.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

James Harrison's 2007 game vs the Ravens just popped up on my facebook feed.

He wasn't doubled on any of his sacks, and his first sack he was unblocked because we stacked the line with 6 guys, someone, may have been Troy ran straight into Ogden at the snap, then dropped into coverage, allowing Harrison a free run at McNair.

Definitely miss the blitzburgh attitude and lack of predictability

 

[diver]

James Harrison's 2007 game vs the Ravens just popped up on my facebook feed.

He wasn't doubled on any of his sacks, and his first sack he was unblocked because we stacked the line with 6 guys, someone, may have been Troy ran straight into Ogden at the snap, then dropped into coverage, allowing Harrison a free run at McNair.

The thing I just can't understand is Tomlin was the head coach! He saw the success of that stuff. And now he rolls out this?

I try to give him the benefit of the doubt with that. I know we yell to open up the offense, but he the QBs he has rolled out there among other things on offense may preclude some of that. The talent collection is his fault, but I'm not sure he is completely wrong not letting the likes of Mitch Trubisky or Kenny Pickett or a now limited Russell Wilson throwing with impunity across there. And on defense we all want more blitzing, but if the corners can't hold up... I am so hoping some of these signings change things this year.

 

[Coryea]

Is that a Mike issue or an Austin issue?

I’m sure LeBeau had more latitude but the D he ran was LeBeau’s Lite under Mike (even more so towards the end of his time)

To think that Austin, a guy that’s been in football as long as he doesn’t know what a blitzing or adjustments are is laughable. **** average Joe posters here know that stuff. I’m sure he does too. In no way am I saying he’s good LeBeau’s skills and abilities cuz we’ll never get to see what he can actually do be he is scapegoated like the others that have come before him.

Now does the master controller allow them? **** QBs can’t audible either. Master controller, or did all the QBs just forget that knowledge too? There is one constant to today’s mediocre Steelers.

It is a fact that the tighter the master controller’s stranglehold has become on every facet the more predictable and less successful things have become…hard to argue that.

If you think Austin has any sort of free will to do as he pleases I’d argue to the contrary on that. We’ll likely never see what he could do unimpeded. So kinda hard to accurately assess him or his knowledge imo.

Lebeau was calling the defense in the early years, no doubt about that, just watch and that looks identical to a LeBeau defense. Like I said earlier, after the Tebow playoff game, alot of people were questioning that defense, saying the game passed LeBeau by, that defense was so soft, played off the WR's, didn't come after Tebow. We played a ton of zone then, that defense started to resemble a tampa 2, which is supposedly Tomlin's thing. LeBeau left, went to Tennessee and ran more man defense than all but 2 or 3 teams in the NFL. So obviously Tomlin was taking control here. Butler followed LeBeau, after he retired he said he didn't get to call the defenses on game days. So Tomlin took control from a HOF DC, then didn't let the guy that followed him call the defenses on game days, you think he's allowing Austin to do what he wants to do? Our defense has looked the same for a decade, and it has gotten embarrassed in the playoffs the last 6 games even though all the players (except Cam) have changed and over multiple DC's.

I'm not saying Austin or Tomlin doesn't know what a blitz is, I'm saying Tomlin is to conservative/afraid to call one. The same HC that said after the season he avoids the middle of the field on offense because that's where alot of turnovers happen.

 

[stillwright]

James Harrison's 2007 game vs the Ravens just popped up on my facebook feed.

He wasn't doubled on any of his sacks, and his first sack he was unblocked because we stacked the line with 6 guys, someone, may have been Troy ran straight into Ogden at the snap, then dropped into coverage, allowing Harrison a free run at McNair.

Hmmmmm. Maybe Tomlin should take a look at that clip. Rushing four players straight up the field isn't getting it done.

 

[Coryea]

The thing I just can't understand is Tomlin was the head coach! He saw the success of that stuff. And now he rolls out this?

I try to give him the benefit of the doubt with that. I know we yell to open up the offense, but he the QBs he has rolled out there among other things on offense may preclude some of that. The talent collection is his fault, but I'm not sure he is completely wrong not letting the likes of Mitch Trubisky or Kenny Pickett or a now limited Russell Wilson throwing with impunity across there. And on defense we all want more blitzing, but if the corners can't hold up... I am so hoping some of these signings change things this year.

He held the offense back when Ben was still here alot of times too.

We don't need to blitz a ton, how about just send 5 sometimes just to take some heat off Watt. That play to free Harrison up that i mentioned above is a great example of a scheme freeing up a guy, the blitzer lined up between Harrison and the RDE, along with the NT, LDE, and LOLB, that's 6 guys, the blitzer ran straight into the LT and engaged him then after engaging him immediately dropped into coverage, thus allowing Harrison a free run. When is the last time we've seen anything like that?

It's all ego with Tomlin, early on he was so young and his coodinators were established well respected and successful guys, so all he could do is allow them to do their thing, but then as he was there for awhile he started to want everything done his way, that's why he started hiring his friends as coordinators, they wouldn't question him or give him any pushback.

 

[diver]

He held the offense back when Ben was still here alot of times too.

We don't need to blitz a ton, how about just send 5 sometimes just to take some heat off Watt. That play to free Harrison up that i mentioned above is a great example of a scheme freeing up a guy, the blitzer lined up between Harrison and the RDE, along with the NT, LDE, and LOLB, that's 6 guys, the blitzer ran straight into the LT and engaged him then after engaging him immediately dropped into coverage, thus allowing Harrison a free run. When is the last time we've seen anything like that?

It's all ego with Tomlin, early on he was so young and his coodinators were established well respected and successful guys, so all he could do is allow them to do their thing, but then as he was there for awhile he started to want everything done his way, that's why he started hiring his friends as coordinators, they wouldn't question him or give him any pushback.

Not through 2018 he didn't. Post elbow, yeah. You had an older QB coming off a major elbow injury. So I could see his thinking there, trying to get the guy through 17 games.

I think an issue that should be looked at more has been talent evaluation and collection. To me, it starts there. If he doesn't have the guys to run a competent, that's his fault as much as anything.

 

[Coryea]

Not through 2018 he didn't. Post elbow, yeah. You had an older QB coming off a major elbow injury. So I could see his thinking there, trying to get the guy through 17 games.

I think an issue that should be looked at more has been talent evaluation and collection. To me, it starts there. If he doesn't have the guys to run a competent, that's his fault as much as anything.

Ben himself said he wasn't allowed to change plays when he wanted. I believe it was the 2013 game at Baltimore, I'll see if I can find quotes, it was a 7-7 game and neither offense could get going, second half Baltimore got out a two TD lead, we finally opened the offense up, up tempo no huddle, Ben threw for like 200 yards and a couple TD's in the 4th qtr, but it was to late. After the game, Ben said I wanted to open the offense up earlier. Tomlin said neither offense could get going, I was comfortable exchanging punts with them or something along those lines, basically he was fine playing conservative since their offense couldn't do anything either. How about you go and try to win the damn game.
Ben on his podcast has mentioned Tomlin's conservative approach and him not having full run of the offense, unless it was no huddle. Also mentioned him talking with Tomlin about the upcoming game and Tomlin never having a plan B if their game plan doesn't work

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Lebeau was calling the defense in the early years, no doubt about that, just watch and that looks identical to a LeBeau defense. Like I said earlier, after the Tebow playoff game, alot of people were questioning that defense, saying the game passed LeBeau by, that defense was so soft, played off the WR's, didn't come after Tebow. We played a ton of zone then, that defense started to resemble a tampa 2, which is supposedly Tomlin's thing. LeBeau left, went to Tennessee and ran more man defense than all but 2 or 3 teams in the NFL. So obviously Tomlin was taking control here. Butler followed LeBeau, after he retired he said he didn't get to call the defenses on game days. So Tomlin took control from a HOF DC, then didn't let the guy that followed him call the defenses on game days, you think he's allowing Austin to do what he wants to do? Our defense has looked the same for a decade, and it has gotten embarrassed in the playoffs the last 6 games even though all the players (except Cam) have changed and over multiple DC's.

I'm not saying Austin or Tomlin doesn't know what a blitz is, I'm saying Tomlin is to conservative/afraid to call one. The same HC that said after the season he avoids the middle of the field on offense because that's where alot of turnovers happen.

Agreed

That was my point about Austin.
Like Butler, he has those training wheels on tight and will never actually get to show his abilities to ride/drive the bike.

I think a guy like DL got tired of the direction and moves on and now guys like Butler then Austin are simply scapegoats in waiting doing Mike’s bidding for whatever the hell style of D he’s calling this.

The predictability, conservatism and lack of adjustments likely all go back to the constant, the Mike-Romamager.

It makes it really hard to assess both the coaches and what the players are doing out there.

If they beefed up the coverage abilities of the secondary with the likes of Slay, Ramsey and Echols to just trot out the same BS conservative D it will be VERY disappointing. It sure doesn’t seem the Mike will be able to change his stripes tho…I’ll believe he can when I see it (including in a playoff game or two where his cheeks don’t get puckered so tight they could make a diamond out of carbon)

 

[SojournerSteel]

One guy also had one of the best defensive minds ever calling his defense
While the other has a guy that wouldn't know a blitz or an adjustment if it slapped him in the face.

And TJ said Tomlin is the only coach he'd want to play for I guess we'll see about that! TJ also doesn't want to be moved around from his predictable blitzing position as Shades has him taking on 3 players to "beat his man."

Maybe there's a reason neither have won a playoff game in the last 8 years.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Is that a Mike issue or an Austin issue?

I’m sure LeBeau had more latitude but the D he ran was LeBeau’s Lite under Mike (even more so towards the end of his time)

To think that Austin, a guy that’s been in football as long as he doesn’t know what a blitzing or adjustments are is laughable. **** average Joe posters here know that stuff. I’m sure he does too. In no way am I saying he’s got LeBeau’s skills and abilities cuz we’ll never get to see what he can actually do before he is scapegoated like the others that have come before him. I can safely assume he’s nowhere near LeBeau abilities though cuz he was a great mind where Austin is likely average at best.

Now does the master controller allow them? **** QBs can’t audible either. Master controller, or did all the QBs just forget that knowledge too? There is one constant to today’s mediocre Steelers.

It is a fact that the tighter the master controller’s stranglehold has become on every facet the more predictable and less successful things have become…hard to argue that.

If you think Austin has any sort of free will to do as he pleases I’d argue to the contrary on that. We’ll likely never see what he could do unimpeded. So kinda hard to accurately assess him or his knowledge imo.

DK’s double shot segment yesterday talked some about QB’s latitude to audible. DK said Wilson basically wasn’t allowed to do it. He also said pre snap changes are one of the things Rodgers does best. DK said there has been some discussion that Rodgers would have several plays to choose from to audible to.

That would be a very welcome and BIG change if it ends up happening-as long as the audibles have aggressive options that suit Rodgers skill set and comfort level

I’ll remain hopeful but skeptical until I see a real downfield passing attack In the regular season. We all remember Pickett lighting it up in the preseason his 2nd year only to go back to cave man ball when the regular season started

 

[Coryea]

And TJ said Tomlin is the only coach he'd want to play for I guess we'll see about that! TJ also doesn't want to be moved around from his predictable blitzing position as Shades has him taking on 3 players to "beat his man."

Maybe there's a reason neither have won a playoff game in the last 8 years.

Alot of players say they want to play for Tomlin, most of them actually.

I've posted this before, but if you go back and look Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Woodley, Harrison all rushed the QB from one primary position, they didn't switch sides hardly ever to rush the QB.

 

[jitter77]

Alot of players say they want to play for Tomlin, most of them actually.

I've posted this before, but if you go back and look Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Woodley, Harrison all rushed the QB from one primary position, they didn't switch sides hardly ever to rush the QB.

This is true, but they also had much more help with extra rushers. Our current passive secondary combined with no blitzes or extra rushers gives no one a chance. I feel like we play a mini-prevent most of the game and just hope someone makes a play or the other teams offense messes up

 

[SojournerSteel]

Alot of players say they want to play for Tomlin, most of them actually.

I've posted this before, but if you go back and look Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Woodley, Harrison all rushed the QB from one primary position, they didn't switch sides hardly ever to rush the QB.

Fair point but when your guy is getting stonewalled and chipped by 3 defenders they either need to move Watt or somebody else has to win? Seems like coaching would make a team pay for that.

But that's the whole thing with TJ: Look at the record without him? On the one hand it's a testament to his generational ability but on the other hand it's an indictment -- with all the money spent on defense -- that they can't win at all when Plan A isn't working. Going back in our history, Carnell Lake moved to CB out of his comfort zone and the team kept defending really well when Woodson went down. Apples and oranges, but he did it because it was best for the team and the defense at the time.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Every offseason nowadays we have some type of compelling drama to carry us through the summer.

First it was Rodgers, now TJ. Which should conclude shortly since camp is coming up.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Every offseason nowadays we have some type of compelling drama to carry us through the summer.

First it was Rodgers, now TJ. Which should conclude shortly since camp is coming up.

Something tells me with the history of speaking/acting out of Rodgers, Ramsey, Metcalf and Tomlin’s inability to do effective damage control on this stuff there’s gonna be no conclusion to the drama

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Every offseason nowadays we have some type of compelling drama to carry us through the summer.

First it was Rodgers, now TJ. Which should conclude shortly since camp is coming up.

They’ve almost completed the Aiyuk deal….

Any day now

This offense is gonna be loaded

And I’ll add: At least we’re not the Bungles!!!!!

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

 

[Steelr4evr]

They’ve almost completed the Aiyuk deal….

Any day now

This offense is gonna be loaded

And I’ll add: At least we’re not the Bungles!!!!!

The bungles have made it to the big show much more recently than the Steelers. Of course they're still 0-3 in them.

The Steelers can't get past getting thrashed in round one. I'm definitely ready for that script to change.

 

[Coryea]

This is true, but they also had much more help with extra rushers. Our current passive secondary combined with no blitzes or extra rushers gives no one a chance. I feel like we play a mini-prevent most of the game and just hope someone makes a play or the other teams offense messes up

That's my point, they had a DC that was unpredictable, they didn't need to switch positions, teams couldn't just key on one guy for entire games because there could be a blitz coming from anyone anywhere at anytime. Teams have zero fear of that now because we rarely do anything like that because Tomlin lives in his fears

 

[Coryea]

Fair point but when your guy is getting stonewalled and chipped by 3 defenders they either need to move Watt or somebody else has to win? Seems like coaching would make a team pay for that.

But that's the whole thing with TJ: Look at the record without him? On the one hand it's a testament to his generational ability but on the other hand it's an indictment -- with all the money spent on defense -- that they can't win at all when Plan A isn't working. Going back in our history, Carnell Lake moved to CB out of his comfort zone and the team kept defending really well when Woodson went down. Apples and oranges, but he did it because it was best for the team and the defense at the time.

That's what I'm saying, our HC (who is the actually DC) isn't doing anything to make teams pay for doubling and tripling Watt, there are very few blitzes. I mean you don't need to be a genius to know, if they are dedicating 2 and 3 guys to Watt who your LOLB, then the right side or middle of that offense is going to be very vulnerable to a blitz, yet very rarely do we even show a blitz.