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To be the man
You have to beat man
Wooooooooooooooo
All Watt has to do to be great is beat Tomlin…
Then he’ll be stylin’ and profilin’ that ring he’s missing
Kaboly says Steelers Listening to trade offers for Watt
- Thread starter steelhurt
- Start date
To be the man
You have to beat man
Wooooooooooooooo
All Watt has to do to be great is beat Tomlin…
Then he’ll be stylin’ and profilin’ that ring he’s missing
I'm torn on this, and the money side has nothing to do with it. We kept hearing that Ben's contract was holding us back from doing anything, but this will be year 4 without that contract and we haven't done anything and we still aren't paying a QB. So if we pay Watt what he wants, it's not going to keep us from drafting a QB in round 1, that QB won't have a big time contract (if he's that good) for another 4-5 years, Watt's contract would be done by then anyways. Everyone says not pay him and use that money elsewhere, well 1. Tomlin is the guy that's going to be bringing in the talent (using the draft picks that come in a trade) he wants with that money, I don't trust him to bring in the players we need. 2. What have we done with all the money that hasn't been used on a QB contract since Ben left? Who did we bring in and pay that really helped us?
For Watt's sake he'd be better off getting traded to a better team, maybe he'll have a chance to actually win something. Everyone says well you have to line up and beat the guy across from you, well if it's one guy, he's winning that battle 80% of the time, but you're not going to beat 2 and sometimes 3 NFL caliber guys very often I don't care who you are. It's not a coincidence that his numbers aren't great in playoffs, you make the playoffs you're playing the top tier teams who usually have a good coach, and a good coach can scheme a defensive player playing in a jr. high scheme right out of a game. It's not just a matter of moving him around ( Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Harrison, Woodley, etc.)all rushed from one primary position, they didn't move all over the field to different positions, they just had a legit DC calling their scheme, anyone really think LeBeau would sit there and watch Watt get chipped, then doubled and not start blitzing to pull guys away from Watt?
From a fans side, he's already the Steelers All-time sack leader, first ballot HOF player, I say pay him so I can see an all time great hopefully retire here, he's the one elite player we have, the only player teams have to actually game plan for, I don't want to see that player leave.
For Watt's sake he'd be better off getting traded to a better team, maybe he'll have a chance to actually win something. Everyone says well you have to line up and beat the guy across from you, well if it's one guy, he's winning that battle 80% of the time, but you're not going to beat 2 and sometimes 3 NFL caliber guys very often I don't care who you are. It's not a coincidence that his numbers aren't great in playoffs, you make the playoffs you're playing the top tier teams who usually have a good coach, and a good coach can scheme a defensive player playing in a jr. high scheme right out of a game. It's not just a matter of moving him around ( Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Harrison, Woodley, etc.)all rushed from one primary position, they didn't move all over the field to different positions, they just had a legit DC calling their scheme, anyone really think LeBeau would sit there and watch Watt get chipped, then doubled and not start blitzing to pull guys away from Watt?
From a fans side, he's already the Steelers All-time sack leader, first ballot HOF player, I say pay him so I can see an all time great hopefully retire here, he's the one elite player we have, the only player teams have to actually game plan for, I don't want to see that player leave.
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Watt, much like Tomlin, has been a consistent regular season producer
Watt, much like Tomlin, has been invisible in the playoffs as far as the bottom line is concerned
How much should a team pay for zero results is a legitimate question imho
I get that Watt can be an absolute monster in some regular season games but is that really how far the standard has fallen in fans’ eyes? An absolute monster in SOME REGULAR SEASON games is good enough?!?! **** SN has gotten soft just like its team.
This endless GHD has effected our collective ability to process OR simply having an impact player to watch on the way down mediocrity lane has become good enough
0-4
6 solo 2 assists 1 sack 1 FR
Can’t get that for less than the most?
GTFOH
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With or without him you know, everyone knows that we are X and O deficient. Getting rid of him won’t bring about a coaching change. This is a known known. So they might as well sign him to be able to watch him play as we have to categorize parts of the team to find some enjoyment .
From a team perspective as I said previously you don’t bring in all these free agents to get rid of your best player. That would be a top shelf ignant.
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I fully agree with this in principle, but the ****-head browns set the new pay scale and TJ feels he needs that at minimum. TJ is a better player than the helmet swinger.
As for Chase and his new “Highe3st paid non-QB” contract, the Steelers should not have to match that one. Hard to say if TJ is the best non-QB player in the NFL and be paid like it.
Yes over Swinger, NO over Chase WR.
I can’t imagine being more hungry for money with already having $130 mil. I wouldn’t worry about the next contract and fully retire, health in tact.
Salute the nation
Yes, all very true, kind of shocked at how many fans i hear call in to sports shows yelling to trade him, or are pissed at Watt.With or without him you know, everyone knows that we are X and O deficient. Getting rid of him won’t bring about a coaching change. This is a known known. So they might as well sign him to be able to watch him play as we have to categorize parts of the team to find some enjoyment .
From a team perspective as I said previously you don’t bring in all these free agents to get rid of your best player. That would be a top shelf ignant.
Well top shelf ignorant with Tomlin running the show, so basically there's a very good chance of that happening.
I mean he took one of the top play making safeties in the NFL, made him play centerfield while making him the highest paid safety.
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With or without him you know, everyone knows that we are X and O deficient. Getting rid of him won’t bring about a coaching change. This is a known known. So they might as well sign him to be able to watch him play as we have to categorize parts of the team to find some enjoyment .
From a team perspective as I said previously you don’t bring in all these free agents to get rid of your best player. That would be a top shelf ignant.
If he’d take a deal to match the length of the Mike’s contract with a guaranteed lack of any more years without a SB win I’d be on board.
We both know that won’t be the case though
He’ll be looking for 5 years, most guaranteed and a contract that hamstrings the team near its end as we may finally be escaping the Tomlin years (if we’re lucky enough for no more extensions)
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Not all of us fall into this category, I expect more but also realize that getting it delivered is like “not going to happen”. I still order PizZaa delivery even though they couldn’t find my place one time………….. I like PizZa.
I wished the Steelers could deliver that one time…………. Instead of the constant GHD routine.
My HOPE is still active.!!!
Salute the nation
I think that has more to do with Coaching. You play good teams with good coaches in the playoffs, any good coach can scheme against a top player when that player is in a cracker jack box defensive scheme.
There is zero threat of a blitz, so it's simple LT has your ROLB, LG has one DE, your C has the other DE, leaving your RG, RT, TE, RB all to chip and block Watt, however you want to use them.
I mean why don't we ever hear about Heyward only having 1 sack in 9 playoffs games? He has pretty great regular seasons then nothing in the playoffs as well, so two future HOF players(well Watt is 1st ballot, Heyward has a decent shot) suddenly do nothing in the playoffs.
The only thing TJ Watt and Mike Tomlin have in common is Watt plays football for Tomlin and Watt got him to those playoff games. But in playoff games you play against good players with good coaches. That know you can limit an edge player in a variety of ways. Not just with chips and double teams but play calling. So if we think of the last three games. Ravens, Bills (he was hurt), Chiefs. Who was TJ Watt gonna beat by himself. You take away TJ Watt's production and replace it with Alex Highsmith as top edge player and I bet you are under .500 every season for last 5.
TJ Watt is an Edge player. He is not a QB. Do people think he's not trying in these games. Or he's afraid of playing in them. Like **** come one. How about it's that it's 4 games really spread out where he is the one guy Im not gonna let wreck this game. And the HC just isn't smart enough to use that to his advantage.
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It's interesting to me the inconsistency in arguments. We get upset, rightfully so, at "experts" when they spout off about how great a coach Tomlin is with the never a losing season thing and always in the playoff hunt and so on. But he doesn't win anything when it matters! But we can't discuss the performance of TJ Watt and other Steeler players in the biggest games? That incredible impact in the regular season has not carried over into the biggest of games.
I've been a Steeler fan for over 50 years. I had gotten real used to the biggest stars on the Steelers making huge impacts in the biggest games. They just don't now. I agree, much of that is the coach. No doubt. But dammit, the players have some responsibility too, and it should be discussed.
Again the difference between Watt and Tomlin is that Watt's production gets Tomlin where he is. With little to no offense. Tomlin’s had a Top 10 paid defense in every one one of those games. Are we going to talk about the production of every other player too. Tomlin’s scheme is line up like the battle of Waterloo. Let nothing behind you and force a penalty, turnover or long third down. That simply doesn't work against the Josh Allens, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jacksons of this league. It doesn't. You are not bullying those teams. You just aren’t.
I remember listening to Staubach and Bradshaw over the years discussing how they played QB different. Landry called the plays for Staubach. Bradshaw called his own. Staubach had a little bitterness over that. The coach isn't out there. Players have a better feel, they are playing. So sometimes they have to overcome the lack of feel of the coach. If that makes sense, that's what I'm trying to say. Look at Tomlin. He loves to say he made decisions with his gut. It pisses me off. He ain't out there. Steeler players gotta overcome his gut. But all players have always had to do that to one degree or another.
agreed, we can talk about it. It's funny though, like I said in another thread, you have one 1st ballot HOF, Watt, and another possible HOF Heyward, both do nothing come playoff time, on a defense that just gets totally embarrassed in the playoffs.
I think there'd be more to Watt having poor stats in the playoffs if we're losing by 3 or 4 points each game, but we are getting totally crushed, pretty much over by halftime, that absolutely points to scheme and getting out coached by a mile.
Damn right. But this thread is about Watt.
True, but how many NFL guys can over come an NFL caliber RB/TE chip him, then get blocked by an NFL caliber RT with an OG or RB waiting to help, that's 3 guys he faces.
If you look at the Cleveland playoff game, almost every run play was to the right side of our defense, and all their pass plays were 3 steps get it out. If you're coaching against a guy you know isn't going to change anything, it's pretty simple, it's like the early Patriots stealing signals, only when you face Tomlin you don't need to steal anything, you already know what's going to happen.
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It's the status of the contract, and the guarantees are what's holding up the negotiations right now. Watt could care less if he see's the entire 160-200 mill the contract would entail, but he wants at least the 125m guaranteed. But the status that on paper says that he makes more than Garrett does in fact mean a lot to these players. Especially players like Watt and Garrett who are forever linked due to their draft, and playing in the same division...and the fact that the media is constantly putting Garrett ahead of Watt despite the results being in Watt's favor, you better believe Watt wants that bragging rights.
Watt should have 3 DPOY awards, he was flat out robbed two years ago when they gave it to Garrett based on the made up stat of rush win %. The media is always making excuses to put Garrett ahead of Watt in ever ranking they put out...This is a much about sticking it to the media, analysts, and the Browns (FO, Garrett, and fans) as it is about the actual money.
And this in itself tells the story greatly. An edge player feasts in games that are close or you have the lead in the second half. Where the team gets out of its structure and game plan. Where they no longer commit as many players to stopping one guy. Where they hold the ball too long. When have any of these teams come out of their game plan?
I know. The scheme is awful. I must admit that while I have realized that a little bit, not to the degree it is. Williamson broke down the playoff game against Baltimore and how dumb the defensive gameplan was. It made you uncomfortable just listening to it. Tomlin is the guy that is "highly compensated." For that?
I don't care if they trade him. The team is not going to contend with him in the life of the contract anyhow. But if you remove his near sack a game production from the equation. You are gonna find out real quick that you are wrong. The things that are happening in the playoffs are gonna happen consistently in the regular season. But hey. If it gets rid of Tomlin and to the top third of tge draft to get a Q. Sign me up.
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This is the direct result of not having guaranteed contracts.
This nonsense only happens in football.
None of the other sports have this quandary.
I don't know much about the NBA, but Hockey and Baseball both have guaranteed contracts, and they also have arbitration when the owner/GM and the player see different value in the player.
Just to revisit this:
Watt - Tackles-68, Sacks-19(led NFL), TFL-19, QB Hits-36, FF-4, PD-8, Int-1, FR-3
Garrett-Tackles-42, Sacks-14, TFL-17, QB Hits-30, FF-4, PD-3, INT-0, FR-1
Garrett didn't beat him in one single category that year.
Wrong about what? I'm not questioning the greatness of TJ Watt. I am question the lack of production in the biggest games...really from everyone, top down. Watt plays for the Steelers and should not be above question.
Those sports are also miles behind the NFL in popularity. I think it's hard in the NFL to have guaranteed contracts because of the number of injuries and the salary cap.