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How very true.
Kaboly says Steelers Listening to trade offers for Watt
- Thread starter steelhurt
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Thing is are you or anyone else going to work for less then people you are better then. I don't think many would. The money changing hands on the sport is astounding. The owners are making billions. They turn over millions and millions to the product, tge players depending on ability, need and leverage. I suppose TJ Watt could take some kinda discount, but I'd like to hear an arguement as to why? Garrett initially said he wanted out because the team is the *****. I don't disagree with him. But clearly that was a leverage. I think Watt's leverage is tge Steelers pushed chips in with all these terrible moves. You are going to do that and then lose your defensive centerpiece? I highly doubt.
I really don't think I am diminishing what he has done. He is a HOF player. But the uncomfortable elephant in the room is that the Steelers haven't gotten great performances in playoff games from their biggest stars in quite some time. I know the schemes stink. But in football, sometimes you just have to beat what they throw at you. You can't scheme your way to success all the time. I'm not diminishing TJ Watt, but that issue needs to be considered.
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DIC already answered that
Point blank and simple $$$$$
The biggest motivation to at least 95% of players (likely more)
If money weren’t his top priority he wouldn’t have signed the 2nd contract. The 3rd one will just further confirm what the 2nd one stated $$$ is king, if winning accompanies that it is just a bonus.
Ex-F'n-actly. You ain't sniffing playoffs without that war daddy. Now that isn't to say you cannot trade him. If he cannot play to the value he wants you have to consider. If you know you won't really contend within the life of tge contract. You have to consider. Let's just not talk about the guys performance. And he's literally the highest motor guy I've seen in I don't even know how long.
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You’ll admit Tomlin had a huge amount to say on picking of these guys that aren’t good enough to overcome his coaching right?
Why? He's above his performance being discussed? Terry Bradshaw was booed after throwing a pick late in a playoff game against San Diego in 1982, and he won 4 Super Bowls with a number of great performances in the biggest games.
It's not about just making the playoffs, it's about winning big games. They aren't getting the performances out of their best players to win those big games.
I am not in the trade Watt camp. They sign him, great! I get to watch a HOF player for a number of more years. If they trade him, I'm ok with that too.
Yes.
And I really believe players haave to do that sometimes. Granted, overcoming Tomlin is a bigger challenge than some other coaches. Still, the best of the best have to do it sometimes.
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In all seriousness if I were TJ Watt I’d want the hell out of this mess. He has zero chance of winning a SB while here under this current regime. Hell, the team will be lucky to win a playoff game while he’s here.
TJ is certainly not getting any younger and times running out. Can you imagine him being coached by a Vic Fangio or Steve Spagnola in their defensive schemes rather than this hodge podge of nothingness that Tomlin employs?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lions, Eagles or Chiefs come calling.
TJ is certainly not getting any younger and times running out. Can you imagine him being coached by a Vic Fangio or Steve Spagnola in their defensive schemes rather than this hodge podge of nothingness that Tomlin employs?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lions, Eagles or Chiefs come calling.
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Could be true but following Kaboloy is like following The National Enquirer.
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The difference is that in the real world you are not likely making that money because of you athletic skills that decline as you age. TJ right now has to be in the mindset of getting as much as he can because his window is rapidly closing. At that point if he still wants to earn money playing a game, he will have to accept that he is going to get less.
Myself I believe that I would offer 75-80% of Garret’s (40M/yr) plus incentives that would allow him to make 110% of that $$$. I wouldn’t even be against a 5 year deal with the first 3 years guaranteed @ 100/90/80% and the last 2 years at about 20M/yr.
Maybe something like this:
5 year $220M (with incentives) and a 30M signing bonus.
Year 1 - $22M (fully guaranteed) (12M incentives)
Year 2 - $22M ($19.8M guaranteed) (12M incentives)
Year 3 - $20M ($16M guaranteed) (14M incentives)
Year 4 - $25M ($19M incentives)
Year 5 - $20M ( $24M incentives)
This means that he gets $30M of the $88M guaranteed money up front PLUS the STRONG likelihood of earning an additional $45 before his next contract date @ 36yo. Even if he ends up being a rotational player by year 3, he is still paid fair money, plus he gets a pay bump this year from what he is due. That means he would likely earn ALL of the the 5 year contract. This puts his lifetime earnings at around $250M (without incentive earnings).
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What if Watt eventually leaves...trade..next season.....Maybe Tomlin then knows he has to scheme defensively differently....perhaps.
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If he does leave I hope it's to the Lions. might just be what puts them over the top
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WATT would never sign that contract, he’d even laugh at it. (Sorry, I hear yaz and want a bargain too, but reality is)
Helmet swinger got about 123 mil guaranteed, TJ will more than likely be getting 123.5 or slightly more guaranteed.
Incentives don’t mean ****, it’s the cash in hand guaranteed money that’s important.
Salute the nation
You can admit Minkah to your list too. Right?
The dude has played 121 games and has 108 sacks. He has 33 Forced Fumbles and 7 Ints. You have to account for him on every play. He is and absolute game wrecker. If you subtract his play over the last 7 years the only good thing is Tomlin's *** is in another teams Coaches room. You can choose not to pay him his market value but yeah his performance is above being discussed.
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Garrett got $40 million per year and $123.5 guaranteed. I would guess that is the bare minimum starting point for Watt if the Steelers want to sign him.
DIC, I've got no problem with a skilled tradesman being appropriately compensated for his work. And, really, I understand the dynamics of Watt's demands. But the difference between tens of thousands and tens of millions is a wide, wide chasm.
It just would have been refreshing to see TJ show up at mandatory mini-camp without trying to hold the Steelers hostage for more money.
I'm not really blaming anybody. I understand that the NFL is a business. It's entertainment, and it's wildly popular. That's not going to change.
In Watt, you have an athlete at the top of his profession, and he has the right to seek out the very best deal he can, I suppose. It's just hard for me to comprehend someone having earned well over 100 million dollars in less than ten years, and still feeling the need to sit out and not honor the last year of a contract that will pay him yet another $30+ million in 2025.
But the Browns' management has proved to be inept time and time again. They overpaid Garrett -- so does that automatically mean that the Steelers must overpay Watt? I would say no.
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The Steelers record without watt is terrible. You can say what you want about the playoffs but we have had some bad matchups combined with bad scheme. Last playoff game watt seemed to do what he was told which was tackle Henry at all costs. Watt has single handily won games with late sacks, FFs, or strip sacks. I just don't see a reason not to pay him. I could understand if we had a big signing coming up we needed to free up money, but that is not the case. I just don't get playing hardball with the one guy who puts it all on the line and has been a true professional. Watt is the face of the franchise and it makes 0 sense to bring in Rodgers sign a WR to a big contract then trade away your best defensive player. The team just seems to have 0 direction and has been winging it the last few yrs
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Thing is, the contract I laid out means he would likely see all of it instead of being a salary cap casualty later. He easily could cash in with 160-170M with attainable incentives, maybe even more if they move on from Tomlin.
Garrett’s deal makes it unlikely he sees the tail end money, so TJ would see more money overall.
I get what you are saying about the guaranteed money, but sometimes it pays to look at the bigger picture.
I'm torn on this, and the money side has nothing to do with it. We kept hearing that Ben's contract was holding us back from doing anything, but this will be year 4 without that contract and we haven't done anything and we still aren't paying a QB. So if we pay Watt what he wants, it's not going to keep us from drafting a QB in round 1, that QB won't have a big time contract (if he's that good) for another 4-5 years, Watt's contract would be done by then anyways. Everyone says not pay him and use that money elsewhere, well 1. Tomlin is the guy that's going to be bringing in the talent (using the draft picks that come in a trade) he wants with that money, I don't trust him to bring in the players we need. 2. What have we done with all the money that hasn't been used on a QB contract since Ben left? Who did we bring in and pay that really helped us?
For Watt's sake he'd be better off getting traded to a better team, maybe he'll have a chance to actually win something. Everyone says well you have to line up and beat the guy across from you, well if it's one guy, he's winning that battle 80% of the time, but you're not going to beat 2 and sometimes 3 NFL caliber guys very often I don't care who you are. It's not a coincidence that his numbers aren't great in playoffs, you make the playoffs you're playing the top tier teams who usually have a good coach, and a good coach can scheme a defensive player playing in a jr. high scheme right out of a game. It's not just a matter of moving him around ( Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Harrison, Woodley, etc.)all rushed from one primary position, they didn't move all over the field to different positions, they just had a legit DC calling their scheme, anyone really think LeBeau would sit there and watch Watt get chipped, then doubled and not start blitzing to pull guys away from Watt?
From a fans side, he's already the Steelers All-time sack leader, first ballot HOF player, I say pay him so I can see an all time great hopefully retire here, he's the one elite player we have, the only player teams have to actually game plan for, I don't want to see that player leave.
For Watt's sake he'd be better off getting traded to a better team, maybe he'll have a chance to actually win something. Everyone says well you have to line up and beat the guy across from you, well if it's one guy, he's winning that battle 80% of the time, but you're not going to beat 2 and sometimes 3 NFL caliber guys very often I don't care who you are. It's not a coincidence that his numbers aren't great in playoffs, you make the playoffs you're playing the top tier teams who usually have a good coach, and a good coach can scheme a defensive player playing in a jr. high scheme right out of a game. It's not just a matter of moving him around ( Lloyd, Greene, Gildon, Porter, Harrison, Woodley, etc.)all rushed from one primary position, they didn't move all over the field to different positions, they just had a legit DC calling their scheme, anyone really think LeBeau would sit there and watch Watt get chipped, then doubled and not start blitzing to pull guys away from Watt?
From a fans side, he's already the Steelers All-time sack leader, first ballot HOF player, I say pay him so I can see an all time great hopefully retire here, he's the one elite player we have, the only player teams have to actually game plan for, I don't want to see that player leave.