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Same here.
Tomlin and Haley's contract are up in 2016
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Same here.
Quoted for truth.
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I dont know. Cowher had a bunch of talent on his roster when he took over. Maybe Chuck couldn't connect with them and when Bill took over...well we all know Bill brought a different approach of coaching.
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It was more than that IMHO. Cowher didn't just take Noll's players and turn them into pro-bowlers (he did that with some of them) but he also added his own talent immediately. In his first draft he drafted Searcy, Kirkland, Steed, and Perry. In his second draft he drafted Chad Brown and Willie Williams. 3rd draft was Johnson, Buckner, Gildon and Bam Morris. He also added players from other teams like Duval Love, Kevin Green, John Williams, and Ray Seals. By end of his 2nd year and start of the 3rd season he had 7 of his own starters on defense alone. He also had 5 starters on offense by then. By the time the SB team was together (Cowher's 4th season) 7 players on offense and 9 players on defense were either drafted by Cowher or sign as FAs by Cowher.
Just to put that into perspective there are more Cowher players on the defense NOW after he's been gone 8 years than there were Noll players left after just 4 years when he took over. In Tomlin's 5th season (loss to GB) he had 11 starters still left from Cowher's team.
This obsession with Cowher & Tomlin can be summed up really easy. Cowher connected with his early draft picks and built a team that was successful save for a few down years after 2000 when the team went through what we are currently going through, roster turnover and a few missed picks. Once the FO started connecting on their draft picks mixed with the right free agents (Farrior, Hartings, etc) the team turned the corner and of course it didn't hurt to draft Big Ben. We've had some really bad outcomes from the drafts and we've also let some people leave via UFA because we were so far up against the cap. The FO has to hit on the draft picks for this team to turn the corner and be back in the upper echelon in the league. Tomlin can coach his *** off, but if we don't have the proper personnel we aren't going to win championships, because that's the standard around here. Our defense wasn't going to overwhelm anyone in the playoffs last season, just wasn't going to happen. We our now an offensive dominant football team and until we re-establish a pass rush and a secondary that isn't a Scott-DeWashington look-alike crew we need to dominate offensively. Last season the offense turned the corner. Losing Bell took away our versatility v the Rats. Sure we had a few stinkers last year but I like the way our offense got better during the season. Pressure is on the FO to make the right picks and bring in the right UFAs.
My point is everyone likes to compare Tomlin with Switzer when it is a piss poor argument. There is no comparison to a Coach that was able to take his team to a second superbowl vs a coach who was done coaching in the same amount of time. Tomlin is closer to Seifert than Switzer. That is for certain.
I don't jump off bridges just because someone said to. I understand the year to year evaluation of teams and what factors may contribute to record. I've got 40 season under my belt, so there's no need for rash changes. Try living 40 years without a single playoff win. That's how this franchise started, and some of those seasons only had 10-12 teams!
My problem has always been not being fair in the comparison. The things I loved about Cowher: 6 strait playoff appearances to start his career/ Strong Defense/ Strong Running game, still netted disappointment with underperforming in the AFCC and SB games until they scrapped the playbook and came out passing in 2005 (a deviation to Cowher's normal coaching strategy). The strategy worked perfectly and we won a Superbowl. Cowher fit the league at that time. Defense, ball control offense, get a lead and grind it out. That strategy will get you killed in the NFL today. Cowher wasn't perfect, and he had his share of sub 500 seasons and missed the playoffs 3 years in a row (something Tomlin has not done).
Tomlin is less emotional and understands the importance of offense. We've had the most prolific offense ever in our history under Tomlin. Defense has suffered, and there is nothing wrong with coaching the players you have, because they are Steelers first and foremost. The argument could be made to them being Colbert's players more than Cowher's since Colbert is the GM, and he's still here. The league has changed to a wide open offensive league, and we've moved to change with it. You want to point to a 500 season and discredit a coach because of it. What if they started 0-4 and 2-6 two of those years? That's a hell of a coaching job to get them back to 500. Tomlin can't win without his franchise QB? Went 3-1 during his suspension and we made the SB that year. This team is exciting and explosive on offense and I expect more scoring this upcoming year, and that's something I look forward to. I only hope Butler can utilize his players in a different way to limit opposing offenses. If he can, we're not far off from going deep in the playoffs.
Tomlin is not pathetic and nostalgia will never have me remembering Cowher as being perfect. They were both coaches that happen to be successful in this league and both helped the Steelers get to the Franchise leading 6 Lombardi trophies that we all enjoy as fans.
Nice post Cope. I remember the Cowher threads way back when, run, run, pass or Zereoue shotgun draw, PUNT!
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I'm amazed at people's revisionist history concerning Cowher and the passing game. In 1995 O'Donnell lead the Steelers to 5th in scoring at 25.4 PPG. He was hurt some during the year and only started 12 games. So they had over 4000 yards of passing between 3 QBs. In the SB O'Donnell passed the ball 49 TIMES. But that wasn't just a SB thing. Against Indy in the AFCC game he threw it 41 times. Against Buffalo ( a game where they lead the entire way) he threw it 35 times. In 1997 against NE Kordell throws the ball 31 times and they win 7-6. Against the Broncos Kordell throws the ball 36 times and throws 3 horrible picks. In 2001 they destroy the rats by running the ball. Then they open it up against NE where Kordell bombs away for 41 passes and 3 picks that kill the team. In 2002 Maddox throws the ball 48 times against the clowns and wins. Then he throws it 41 times against Tenn in a loss. In 2004 Ben is a rookie and throws the ball 30 times against the Jets in a win. Then against NE he only throws the ball 24 times but has 3 picks that make it a run away for NE. Brady only has 21 pass the entire game.
I don't know where this myth comes from. But only ONCE in all those games did Cowher not have the QB passing it at least 30 times and that was when the Steelers were blowing out the rats.
Oh, just to get some perspective. During the 08' SB run Ben threw the ball 26 times against SD, 33 times against the rats, and 30 times against AZ. I guess Tomlin is stuck in the past and doesn't know how to win in today's pass happy NFL?
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Wow. The hammer drove the nail clean through the 2x4
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These threads are so entertaining every time we rehash the same thing. Nobody is going to look at anything through any different colored glasses regardless of how many times it's discussed. More than the guy on the sidelines go into how the team is structured and performs. I'm no fan of Tomlin either, but that doesn't make me forget FG Bill, Marty Ball Bill or any other incarnation of him that ruled this board before Ben was gifted to him and he finally won the big one. Revisionist history indeed. Cowher may have been a better coach, but let's not get carried away. Dri Archer still sucks too.
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Well it is a proven fact that when Tomlin has the players he is a winner. We just have to get some more players.
That's where I'm at. I don't think Cowher was an awesome coach and I don't think Tomlin is a awful coach. I do think that Tomlin is an average coach and that Cowher was better overall.
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I can agree with this. My issue with Tomlin is his 4th down decisions on when to kick and when to go for it, tardy promotions of talented young players when a average to bad veteran is starting in front of him, his good cop / bad cop flip flops, clock management / time outs, and the ability to get his team to focus on the bottom level teams in the NFL.
I'd say Bill was an 8 of of 10. Tomlin is more like a 6 out of 10.
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On fourth down Bill 99 percent of the time just kicked a FG. So yeah....ok.
The love grows for Cowher as time passes and memories of Cowher's faults fade away...
People remember very well times that Tomlin made a mistake in going for 2 or made a dumb decision to try a fake punt, but who can remember when Cowher made similar boners...it's hard 10, 12 or 18 years later.
People remember very well times that Tomlin made a mistake in going for 2 or made a dumb decision to try a fake punt, but who can remember when Cowher made similar boners...it's hard 10, 12 or 18 years later.
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The one that irked me was asking Suisham to make a long 50+ against the wind ( 2013 season ). Suisham isn't a long range type of kicker. Coaches need to know their kicker's range.
Cowher had his share of risks, but he did them at the right points of a game, and seldom left any points on the board from bone head plays.
You are proving my point with this terrible generalization.
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I remember the "fire" Cowher threads.....would never imagine that now a days though.
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It is generally brought up when someone is defending Tomlin and they love to point back at bad things Cowher did years ago.
Beat me to it. Karma sent.
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yeah well, very boring topic. I miss the prospect discussions that used to be here a few years ago
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Not all the time. Just some of the time.
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Bill never said he's done coaching.
Is there a chance? Ponder this. The Steelers finish 7-9 or 9-7, and do not make the playoffs in 2015. This is six seasons with no playoff wins. Okay for Browns fans, but not us! Dan Rooney who Bill calls Mr. Rooney with respect makes a private call to Cowher asking if he'd consider being a coach for 4 years. If Bill says yes, Tomlin is let go. If he says no, Tomlin is here for 2016, and no one knows about it. That is how it could go down.
It all depends. Cowher would make the hall of fame if he won another super bowl. His wife has passed, and daughters have all graduated from college. Cowher's comment last year that the Steeler have gone soft raised eyebrows and dropped some jaws. Not only was he right, you could tell the old fire was back when he said it.
" Speaking shortly after a 31-10 blowout loss to the rival Cleveland Browns on Sunday, Cowher said that his former team "has gotten soft."
"I never thought I would say these words," Cowher said on CBS, right before taking his shot."
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Yeah. Cowher and Rooney scheming behind Tomlin's back. That will happen. Why not.