Tomlin says team won't change philosophy just to beat the cheatriots.

[antdrewjosh]

You can say that but the fact is our defensive philosophy has aloud bad teams to stick around in games or beat us. Bad QB's, journeyman QB's, rookie QB's and/or most QB's usually have good/great statical games against us. Long sustained drives. Which keeps our offense off the field. Yes we win most of the games because our team is more talented. Some game should never be as close as they are. This defensive philosophy has been broken for years even when Dick was here. I guess we can always hope for someone else to take the Pats out in the playoffs. I just don't see us doing it.

And I know most will make that a Tomlin thing when it's so far from that. Does Baltimore have coaching issues?? No of course not. Harbaugh is a good coach. I know cause I hate his face lol. But a down Year doesn't change anything. We go on a 9 game winning streak without our best defensive player and captain and one terrible game against the Patriots and we back to questioning the coaching staff.

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[stillwright]

And I know most will make that a Tomlin thing when it's so far from that. Does Baltimore have coaching issues?? No of course not. Harbaugh is a good coach. I know cause I hate his face lol. But a down Year doesn't change anything. We go on a 9 game winning streak without our best defensive player and captain and one terrible game against the Patriots and we back to questioning the coaching staff.

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Go back to questioning? This defense philosophy has been questioned for years now. By all. Everyone was shocked (media fans talking heads) that we came out and tried to just run our usually defense against the Pats. Everyone knew that the Pats would do what they did....a coach has to put his players in a position to succeed and win. On that day in Foxboro our coaches failed their owner players fans and themselves. Rules have changed. Our defense doesn't work anymore. Change isn't always a bad thing....but when you can't admit a problem when one exists is .

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[antdrewjosh]

Go back to questioning? This defense philosophy has been questioned for years now. By all. Everyone was shocked (media fans talking heads) that we came out and tried to just run our usually defense against the Pats. Everyone knew that the Pats would do what they did....a coach has to put his players in a position to succeed and win. On that day in Foxboro our coaches failed their owner players fans and themselves. Rules have changed. Our defense doesn't work anymore. Change isn't always a bad thing....but when you can't admit a problem when one exists is .

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They have admitted to it. The problem was people wanted heads after the game. And the team wasn't going to throw players under the bus right after the game. The coaches felt they didn't have the people to play man to man.. also to play man to man and rush 4.. blitzing more to me wasn't much of an option Brady has always tore us a new ******* when we blitzed. But like i said that one game should not have taken all the thunder from what the team was able to accomplish last year..but it has

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[antdrewjosh]

They have admitted it

Mike Tomlin said the term Steelers fans love to hear



Mike Tomlin acknowledged the Steelers' inability to play man-to-man effectively hurt them in the AFC title game.*Andy Lyons/Getty ImagesFacebookTwitterFacebook MessengerPinterestEmailcomment

Mar 28, 2017



Jeremy FowlerESPN Staff Writer

PHOENIX -- Man-to-man.

NFL game plans feature nuances galore and multiple moving parts, yet*Pittsburgh Steelers*faithful seemed to accentuate one thing above all else -- the need for more man-to-man defensive coverage -- after the resounding loss to the*New England Patriots*in the AFC title game.

Mike Tomlin put this particular coverage style first when listing the areas his team needed to improve from that 37-16 loss:

"As the road gets narrower, those things become evident at times, and sometimes painfully evident --*our inability to play man-to-man effectively, our inability to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback without blitzing, and obviously, our inability to maintain balance as*Le’Veon Bell*was unavailable to us, were issues in that game, specifically.*Moving forward, as we build our team for 2017, we don’t do it in reaction to what happened in that game. We are trying to strengthen ourselves in all areas to have the type of depth and balance that will allow us to be the team that the confetti rains down on, this year. To answer your question, those were some of the things, the key elements that outed us in 2016. We are not going to act in a reactionary fashion as we build our team for 2017. We are just simply going to strengthen our team in all areas, just like we did before."

Key word: effectively. The Steelers have employed zone principles for years but are open to man coverage, which was a strength for first-round pick*Artie Burns*coming out of the 2016 draft. In fact, they showed some man looks against New England but fell flat early.

The message is clear -- play it better and Tomlin will use it more. And what Tomlin wants out of the coverage is just as clear.

"Staying close to people. It’s really that simple," Tomlin said. "Being consistent in our techniques and abilities in that area where it could be a consistent weapon for us."

The three items Tomlin listed should work together, of course. Easier to play quality coverage when the pass rush is crisp and the offense is balanced.

Thanks to several young and fast former high draft picks, the Steelers' defensive rebuild is close to completion and helped the team win nine straight games on the way to New England. But the last hurdle -- frustrating high-level quarterbacks with tight coverage coupled with pressure from the defensive line -- will take more time.


The issue is everyone wanted this statement 5 minutes after the game. But that would of shifted blame to the players and no coach is going to do that.

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[stillwright]

They have admitted to it. The problem was people wanted heads after the game. And the team wasn't going to throw players under the bus right after the game. The coaches felt they didn't have the people to play man to man.. also to play man to man and rush 4.. blitzing more to me wasn't much of an option Brady has always tore us a new ******* when we blitzed. But like i said that one game should not have taken all the thunder from what the team was able to accomplish last year..but it has

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They didn't have the personal. It is weird how EVERY team we face man's up against us. We must be the only team that can't do it.
All that said then if you need other players to man up. Draft them. Sign a FA or two. Bring in guys that can do it. Tweet your scheme and philosophy. Oh wait. Tomlin has stated he won't change ANYTHING. So you don't see any issues with the way our front office has been running the off season? What our coach has said? Again. I truly believe our FO just hopes that if we make the playoffs that someone else will take out the Pats.
Ozzie Newsome once said he built his team to beat the Steelers. Maybe we need to build ours to beat the Pats. You know since they are the best team in the game that hands us our *** everytime we play each other.

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[antdrewjosh]

They didn't have the personal. It is weird how EVERY team we face man's up against us. We must be the only team that can't do it.
All that said then if you need other players to man up. Draft them. Sign a FA or two. Bring in guys that can do it. Tweet your scheme and philosophy. Oh wait. Tomlin has stated he won't change ANYTHING. So you don't see any issues with the way our front office has been running the off season? What our coach has said? Again. I truly believe our FO just hopes that if we make the playoffs that someone else will take out the Pats.
Ozzie Newsome once said he built his team to beat the Steelers. Maybe we need to build ours to beat the Pats. You know since they are the best team in the game that hands us our *** everytime we play each other.

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I'm going to assume you didn't read the next post yet. And for years we have drafted zone corners for years. We have looked at players who could play zone because it's the total opposite of playing man. Some can play both some can play just one or the other. But for years we drafted zone corners with Ike and a couple of others being exceptions. Man to Man corners go early in the draft too. And for years we didn't take corners early. Ozzie Smith is in our division that makes his statement of building his team to beat us make sense. We aren't in the Patriots division. There is no guarantee we play them in the playoffs so why build your team around beating just them. We are looking at man to man corners and pass rushers this year and probably for the foreseeable future. Started last year with Burns. So that way if we do meet again we can play that way.

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[deljzc]

We value tackling above all else in our cornerbacks. You can preach all you want about man-2-man skills and not having them. If you don't prioritize that when scouting players, what do you expect?

 

[Drink IRON City]

Do you not see the problem with saying a team that most considered still rebuilding especially on defense making it to the AFC championship as having coaching issues. Yes the defensive plan sucked in the title game but that shouldn't take away from the job the coaches did last year.

Mask it however you decide, we have had the same "GRAY MATTER" mistakes as long as our current "GRAY MATTER" has been here.




Salute the nation

 

[antdrewjosh]

We value tackling above all else in our cornerbacks. You can preach all you want about man-2-man skills and not having them. If you don't prioritize that when scouting players, what do you expect?

Yes for years that was what we wanted in our corners. Guys who could play zone keep it in front of you and tackle the catch..that's why we didn't spend high draft choices on corners. And you can't just change that over nite. You may say ok we are going to change but you have to be in position to change it too.. and they must of really wanted to change it too because they took Burns last year when most thought he was a reach but they wanted a corner with those type of skills

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[antdrewjosh]

Mask it however you decide, we have had the same "GRAY MATTER" mistakes as long as our current "GRAY MATTER" has been here.




Salute the nation

And what "gray matters" mistakes would that be? The things we are discussing or the opinion based things you brought up like clock managements etc

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[stillwright]

That's right. We need to start getting players that can man up. This isn't 10 years ago. Stop drafting zone guys and draft man to man cover guys. Bring in a few guys from FA to bridge the gap from drafting and developing. Change our scheme and philosophy.

And **** the Rats Bengles and Browns. We need to be able to beat the Pats. Or as I been saying we can always hope someone else beats them for us. SMH

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[ark steel]

Hell yeah I would've.

you know they score would have been 21-17 and they would have still lost? WTF does it matter if you lose 100567.5-17 or 18-17. In the playoffs, you go home.

 

[Coryea]

you know they score would have been 21-17 and they would have still lost? WTF does it matter if you lose 100567.5-17 or 18-17. In the playoffs, you go home.

If we hold the Pats to 21 then our offense would've had more possessions. It doesn't matter because the defensive game plan was such trash and NE could've scored 50 if they had to, but yeah keep putting it on the offense. You do remember Brady had nearly 400 yards passing right, but yeah keep on deflecting the blame to the offense.

 

[Coryea]

I don't care if we don't have the personnel, how did anyone with a brain think that leaving all 4 LBs on the field all game vs that you offense was a good idea? How about defensive guys saying they weren't ready for the up tempo offense or have never seen the flea flicker? So teams can only play zone or man, there are no teams that can play zone or man depending on the opponent? That's a new one.

 

[stillwright]

I don't care if we don't have the personnel, how did anyone with a brain think that leaving all 4 LBs on the field all game vs that you offense was a good idea? How about defensive guys saying they weren't ready for the up tempo offense or have never seen the flea flicker? So teams can only play zone or man, there are no teams that can play zone or man depending on the opponent? That's a new one.

It was the worst display of a game plan that I can remember. Our coaches should have been embarrassed. To be fair though. The Pats did have a day and a half more to get ready.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I don't care if we don't have the personnel, how did anyone with a brain think that leaving all 4 LBs on the field all game vs that you offense was a good idea? How about defensive guys saying they weren't ready for the up tempo offense or have never seen the flea flicker? So teams can only play zone or man, there are no teams that can play zone or man depending on the opponent? That's a new one.

Yes they can if you spend high draft picks on players who can do both. Those guys usually go high in the draft. When did the Steelers make that commitment to those type of players before Burns and Davis. Ike and Cortez Allen were low round picks withe ability to play both. Ike panned out Allen flames out. Lewis had that ability and left in free agency after taking awhile to develop also. But mostly they have drafted zone corners Gay and others. Tackle the catch zone corners.

 

[ark steel]

If we hold the Pats to 21 then our offense would've had more possessions. It doesn't matter because the defensive game plan was such trash and NE could've scored 50 if they had to, but yeah keep putting it on the offense. You do remember Brady had nearly 400 yards passing right, but yeah keep on deflecting the blame to the offense.

LOL...I see. Even if we scored 50, marsha would have put up 51, if we put up 80, marsha puts up 81. you people are ridiculous.

 

[Coryea]

LOL...I see. Even if we scored 50, marsha would have put up 51, if we put up 80, marsha puts up 81. you people are ridiculous.

If, if, if that's all ifs, they scored 36, Marsha threw for just under 400 yards, they had WR's wide open every where, that happened, those aren't ifs or what ifs that's what happened.

 

[Coryea]

Yes they can if you spend high draft picks on players who can do both. Those guys usually go high in the draft. When did the Steelers make that commitment to those type of players before Burns and Davis. Ike and Cortez Allen were low round picks withe ability to play both. Ike panned out Allen flames out. Lewis had that ability and left in free agency after taking awhile to develop also. But mostly they have drafted zone corners Gay and others. Tackle the catch zone corners.

True to an extent, but Richard Sherman was a what 6th round pick, Malcolm Butler and AJ Bouye were undrafted.

 

[antdrewjosh]

True to an extent, but Richard Sherman was a what 6th round pick, Malcolm Butler and AJ Bouye were undrafted.

And Ike Taylor was a fourth round pick. Are we counting getting lucky???

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[ark steel]

If, if, if that's all ifs, they scored 36, Marsha threw for just under 400 yards, they had WR's wide open every where, that happened, those aren't ifs or what ifs that's what happened.

you gave me all the if's. If the D played better, we could have had the ball on O' more, etc.

We scored 17. Anything other than keeping the *'s under 17, which only happened twice in the regular season, is irrelevant. you simply were NOT going to do that. Anything else is BS, whether the *'s scored 18 or 672.8. We lose that game because the O scored 17 points.

 

[Coryea]

you gave me all the if's. If the D played better, we could have had the ball on O' more, etc.

We scored 17. Anything other than keeping the *'s under 17, which only happened twice in the regular season, is irrelevant. you simply were NOT going to do that. Anything else is BS, whether the *'s scored 18 or 672.8. We lose that game because the O scored 17 points.

So you had no problem with defensive game plan or the fact players said they weren't prepared?
The O had some big drops and mental mistakes, but the defense wasn't even in position to make plays.

 

[Coryea]

And Ike Taylor was a fourth round pick. Are we counting getting lucky???

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Call it whatever you want, that's part of the game, we have an undrafted OLB that helped us win a Super Bowl, should we not feel all that good because we got lucky with that pick? Just because we haven't picked high isn't really an excuse, we have a top 2 WR and RB without picking high

 

[wig]

Antdrew, at one point, Roethlisberger completed 17 to 19 straight passes. As mentioned, Coates dropped a perfect pass that would have been worth a FG at least. Brown dropped a TD pass. Hamilton biffed a TD pass. Hamilton went OOB and came back IN nullifying another TD pass...

I think an argument can be made that Ben DID outplay Brady. His receivers did not, but you could argue Ben did. In fairness, Brady spent most of the day literally tossing the ball less than 15 feet. God's honest truth. I don't know how you suggest he "outplayed" Roethlisberger. I really don't.

I think if ANY effort whatsoever is made on the defensive side to slow down the P*ts, the Steelers have a real chance in that game. But the Steelers played afraid which is what they do against the P*ts. Tomlin and Butler and before him Lebeau are too afraid of the P*ts and their ability to cheat and know what the team is doing on defense so they choose to play back and try to keep everything in front of them.

Unfortunately, as everyone saw, the Steelers are too old and too slow to deal with speedy, shifty receivers who catch the ball 12 feet away from Brady, in space and dart away from linebackers who outweigh them by 70+ pounds. No MORTAL man could have seen this coming. And clearly no common human being could come up with a counter to that insurmountable strategy.

And given the fact that Bell went down due to lying about an injury and the Steelers had NO valid receivers past Brown who weren't injured or essentially college players who were just happy to be getting a paycheck, that sort of limited the team's capacity to keep up with a team who could move the ball at will against a defense who seemed completely happy to allow the P*ts to continue to shuffle down the field.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Call it whatever you want, that's part of the game, we have an undrafted OLB that helped us win a Super Bowl, should we not feel all that good because we got lucky with that pick? Just because we haven't picked high isn't really an excuse, we have a top 2 WR and RB without picking high

Odds are you aren't going to have those type of players if you don't invest high picks to get them. Getting lucky with a Ike or Sherman is not good draft strategy when changing a scheme like others are talking about. We are lucky to have a Brown. Bell was a second round pick that's not luck.. don't know what you mean by feeling good. I thought we were talking about changing a scheme. Man to man cover corners go high in the draft. That's fact. Getting one late who develops happens but isn't the norm. You want the Steelers to have players who can play both man and zone that's not happening when you aren't investing high draft choices to make it happen. Some guys fall thru the crack but it's not often. If those same guys were redrafted would they still go in the same rounds???

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