Tomlin Deserves Credit

[ark steel]

There weren't any QBs, go back and look at where we drafted and what QBs were there. Colleges weren't running as many pro offenses then, the NFL wasn't pass happy and all the rules geared towards offense, so you didn't have QBs able to just step in right away and play.

By the way, Noll didn't want Franco Harris, he liked Robert Newhouse.

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NOW we have to bring up Noll. Dear god.

NO QB's? Not one better than Kent Graham or Jim Miller. Zero. You 100% sure of that? Can't trade in the draft, to get a QB, can't sign an FA QB?

Post 181 shows you one. Back then, you didn't need a HOF QB, you could play Defense.

 

[Steeler Pride]

NOW we have to bring up Noll. Dear god.

NO QB's? Not one better than Kent Graham or Jim Miller. Zero. You 100% sure of that? Can't trade in the draft, to get a QB, can't sign an FA QB?

Post 181 shows you one. Back then, you didn't need a HOF QB, you could play Defense.

Yet Tomlin can't win squat in 10 years with a HOF QB.

 

[Coryea]

NOW we have to bring up Noll. Dear god.

NO QB's? Not one better than Kent Graham or Jim Miller. Zero. You 100% sure of that? Can't trade in the draft, to get a QB, can't sign an FA QB?

Post 181 shows you one. Back then, you didn't need a HOF QB, you could play Defense.

Brought up Noll, because everyone always brings up Cowher wanted to pass on Ben, which isn't true, he wanted to talk about Andrews as well. Noll liked Newhouse better than Franco.

Drew Brees, a guy that everyone passed on? We picked like 19 or 16th that year, there wasn't one draft guru etc saying Brees was worth that pick, hell I guess we should've taken Brady in the 3rd round in 2000. In hindsight 32 other teams should've taken him.

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[Coryea]

There were two Free agent QBs after the 1999 season that started a decent number of games in the NFL, Ferrotte and Graham. There were rumors that we tried to get Marino at some point but not sure.

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[ark steel]

So you know what was said? Are you calling Rooney a liar? Talk about reading comprehension you think you know what happened without one shred of evidence. Nothing but your own imagination. Yea, stick with that Mrs. Cleo.

Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 or 5 years. He had Kordell for several years. Then Ben for 3 years. They went to the playoffs and the AFCC game with Kordell. I'm sure you were a Kordell apologist back then. Also I don't remember you or any other Tomlin nuthugger mentioning Brees during the draft. Wonder why? I bet you wanted Brady too but didn't share it with the rest of the class.

I'll start looking through the FA and the draft during Tomlin's 12 years... I bet I can find a few he didn't draft. It's bullshit and you know it.

So you know what was said? Are you calling Rooney a liar? Talk about reading comprehension you think you know what happened without one shred of evidence. Nothing but your own imagination. Yea, stick with that Mrs. Cleo.

Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 or 5 years. He had Kordell for several years. Then Ben for 3 years. They went to the playoffs and the AFCC game with Kordell. I'm sure you were a Kordell apologist back then. Also I don't remember you or any other Tomlin nuthugger mentioning Brees during the draft. Wonder why? I bet you wanted Brady too but didn't share it with the rest of the class.

I'll start looking through the FA and the draft during Tomlin's 12 years... I bet I can find a few he didn't draft. It's bullshit and you know it.

I'm following the time-honored SN mantra that you cannot believe what a coach/player/team says in public. Rooney smoothed it over to make it look like a "group decision". I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but most people know what happened at the time.

Heck, within the last 30 minutes, we made a "group decision" at work. I know that there is something I could do and get done by tomorrow. However, because of policy, something else had to have been done last week. so, our "group decision" is that I am not to perform that function.

I have no idea who I wanted in the 2000 draft. People are telling me that they weren't available, when, without even looking it up, I knew of one. People here are claiming none were available. That was one without looking. YOU said it wouldn't be easy for me to pick one. It was. I actually picked 2. I didn't even have to look up anything.

There had to have been dozens better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Whether Tomlin missed a few is irrelevant. If the argument is, unbelievably for God's sake, is that there were no QB's better than Graham, Tomscak or Miller, I don't know what you can say to support that. it would be ludicrous.

 

[ark steel]

Brought up Noll, because everyone always brings up Cowher wanted to pass on Ben, which isn't true, he wanted to talk about Andrews as well. Noll liked Newhouse better than Franco.

Drew Brees, a guy that everyone passed on? We picked like 19 or 16th that year, there wasn't one draft guru etc saying Brees was worth that pick, hell I guess we should've taken Brady in the 3rd round in 2000. In hindsight 32 other teams should've taken him.

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So, you are saying no trades are possible?

 

[Coryea]

So, you are saying no trades are possible?

Trade for who? How often do you ever see teams trade a QB that's decent and we weren't going to trade into the top 5 to get a QB, the price is way to high. The same reason we never trade up recently into the top 10 to get a top flight DB or pass rusher.

Cowher did try to get Marino for the 2000 season.
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...-s-really-really-special/stories/200502060169

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[Atlsteelers]

Yet Tomlin can't win squat in 10 years with a HOF QB.

Dan Marino - 0 Super Bowls
Jim Kelly - 0 Super Bowls
Fran Tarkenton - 0 Super Bowls
Drew Brees - 1 Super Bowl
Aaron Rodgers - 1 Super Bowl
Steve Young - 1 Super Bowl
Brett Favre - 1 Super Bowl

I guess they all had crappy Head Coaches and should have more.

 

[Coryea]

I'm following the time-honored SN mantra that you cannot believe what a coach/player/team says in public. Rooney smoothed it over to make it look like a "group decision". I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but most people know what happened at the time.

Heck, within the last 30 minutes, we made a "group decision" at work. I know that there is something I could do and get done by tomorrow. However, because of policy, something else had to have been done last week. so, our "group decision" is that I am not to perform that function.

I have no idea who I wanted in the 2000 draft. People are telling me that they weren't available, when, without even looking it up, I knew of one. People here are claiming none were available. That was one without looking. YOU said it wouldn't be easy for me to pick one. It was. I actually picked 2. I didn't even have to look up anything.

There had to have been dozens better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Whether Tomlin missed a few is irrelevant. If the argument is, unbelievably for God's sake, is that there were no QB's better than Graham, Tomscak or Miller, I don't know what you can say to support that. it would be ludicrous.

What QBs would you have taken in the 2000 draft

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[Steelers12]

Quarterbacks were even more of a premium back then because passing was tough in the real NFL. Today even **** QBs throw for 4,000 yards, have QB ratings in the mid 90s , etc.

Don't also forget how cash strapped the Steelers were in the last 10 years of Three Rivers stadium. We did not have the ability to sign or keep expensive free agents, see Searcy, Chad Brown, O'Donnell and Thigpen for examples.

 

[Steelers12]

What QBs would you have taken in the 2000 draft

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The Steelers were thinking about the weak armed QB from Marshall, Chad Penningon, before deciding on Plaxico. Yeah that POS would have put us over the top.

 

[Coryea]

The Steelers were thinking about the weak armed QB from Marshall, Chad Penningon, before deciding on Plaxico. Yeah that POS would have put us over the top.

So glad they passed on him. And if Donahue wasn't a dipshit we could've had Kearse instead of Edwards the year before

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[Vader]

I'm following the time-honored SN mantra that you cannot believe what a coach/player/team says in public. Rooney smoothed it over to make it look like a "group decision". I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but most people know what happened at the time.

Heck, within the last 30 minutes, we made a "group decision" at work. I know that there is something I could do and get done by tomorrow. However, because of policy, something else had to have been done last week. so, our "group decision" is that I am not to perform that function.

I have no idea who I wanted in the 2000 draft. People are telling me that they weren't available, when, without even looking it up, I knew of one. People here are claiming none were available. That was one without looking. YOU said it wouldn't be easy for me to pick one. It was. I actually picked 2. I didn't even have to look up anything.

There had to have been dozens better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Whether Tomlin missed a few is irrelevant. If the argument is, unbelievably for God's sake, is that there were no QB's better than Graham, Tomscak or Miller, I don't know what you can say to support that. it would be ludicrous.

You're not hurting my feelings sunshine. You're just lying about something you don't know as fact. Just like when Tomlin was hired the "feeling" was that he was in charge of nothing. So he deserves no credit for the SB because he was just a figure head right? Since everybody knows what happened at the time.

Also you picked 2 in 15 years. You're looking at the entire career of Cowher and assuming that they always were looking for a QB. And that is bullshit. How many CBs have the Steelers passed over during Tomlin's era? How many FAs that he didn't pick up? You ***** about Cowher not finding a decent QB but again if you could READ you'd see that for 4 years he had O'Donnell, Tomczak was in for a year until Kordell was ready, then Kordell was the starter until Kent Graham for a few games. THEN they found Maddox.. you know the guy that lead to Ben.

It's nitpicking at it's finest. You can't stand the fact that Cowher is/was a better coach. He had to make up for losses at different positions every ******* year. But Tomlin can't win with a HOF QB, a new stadium, and no FA departures. People ***** about Shazier getting hurt. Well **** Cowher lost players better than Shazier EVERY year. It's ******* stupid.

 

[ark steel]

What QBs would you have taken in the 2000 draft

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What difference would that make.

Your contention is that over Cowher's Tenure, there were no QB's better available. You may key on the word "available" as if there were no trades possible (in or outside of the draft), but that can't be true or there would have been only a couple or three better QB's out there.

Mine is that there were QB's better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Everyone knows that is true, so no need to prove it. Even the people here Knew Kent Graham was a wasted signing.

 

[Coryea]

What difference would that make.

Your contention is that over Cowher's Tenure, there were no QB's better available. You may key on the word "available" as if there were no trades possible (in or outside of the draft), but that can't be true or there would have been only a couple or three better QB's out there.

Mine is that there were QB's better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Everyone knows that is true, so no need to prove it. Even the people here Knew Kent Graham was a wasted signing.

You said you knew of two without looking, I was curious who they were?

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[Steelers12]

What difference would that make.

Your contention is that over Cowher's Tenure, there were no QB's better available. You may key on the word "available" as if there were no trades possible (in or outside of the draft), but that can't be true or there would have been only a couple or three better QB's out there.

Mine is that there were QB's better than Kent Graham and Jim Miller. Everyone knows that is true, so no need to prove it. Even the people here Knew Kent Graham was a wasted signing.

People here knew Jarvis Jones , Bud Dupree , Landry Jones and Artie Burns were bad picks the day they were made. There were better picks available and Tomlin and Colbert missed on all of them .

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Tomlin has a better talent today across the board and produces fewer results...that is all there is to say. To argue otherwise makes no sense.

I agree that Tomlin sucks, but better talent across the board? Cowher had all-stars on defense.

 

[Steelers12]

And some crappy players on offense. Go look at the 1998 and 1999 rosters. Courtney Hawkins, Wil Blackwell, etc.

 

[ark steel]

You said you knew of two without looking, I was curious who they were?

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you can't think of two QB's over 10 years better than Kent Graham? Brees was mentioned in the post. The other was signed AFTER we signed graham and has a SB ring.

 

[ark steel]

You can't stand the fact that Cowher is/was a better coach. He had to make up for losses at different positions every ******* year. But Tomlin can't win with a HOF QB, a new stadium, and no FA departures. People ***** about Shazier getting hurt. Well **** Cowher lost players better than Shazier EVERY year. It's ******* stupid.

I've said, on this board, and pretty sure within the last month, that I thought Cowher was a better coach. I don't think I have ever said otherwise. That has nothing to do with whether tomlin is a bad coach or not.

However, the fact is, until Rooney made the "group decision" that we were going to draft Ben, Cowher and Cowher's players couldn't win SB, either. That doesn't make him a bad coach.

 

[Coryea]

Brees was drafted 2001 I believe, and if you're talking about Dilfer, he and Graham had pretty identical 1999 stats. They both completed 59% of their passes, both threw the same amount of TDs as INTs and Dilfer had a QB rating of 75, Graham 74. Both sucked.
Cowher did try to get Marino in here, but I guess that doesn't count?

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[ark steel]

I agree that Tomlin sucks, but better talent across the board? Cowher had all-stars on defense.

Yeah, no way Tomlin has better talent across the board.

 

[Steelers12]

I've said, on this board, and pretty sure within the last month, that I thought Cowher was a better coach. I don't think I have ever said otherwise. That has nothing to do with whether tomlin is a bad coach or not.

However, the fact is, until Rooney made the "group decision" that we were going to draft Ben, Cowher and Cowher's players couldn't win SB, either. That doesn't make him a bad coach.

Sundays game showed exactly what Tomlin is, a bad coach. I guess you loved his clock management, his handling of Ben, his inability to have his team wear the proper shoes after 3 hours on the field in pre game warmups, etc. His lack of X and Os, his inability to beat a horrible team onv=ce again in a critical game, his lying to the press about Ben;'s being cleared at halftime and then the lie about the X Ray machine. Everything about the guy is bullshit and smoke and mirrors. He s far from buttoned up, he is a jock sniffing wannabe POS.

 

[Steelers12]

Yeah, no way Tomlin has better talent across the board.

Funny Tomlin has had better talent across the board on offense and his teams suck on defense , Tomlin's alleged specialty.

Cowher's teams were great defensively, his specialty.

One could make the argument convincingly that everything Tomlin touches sucks and the things he doesn't touch are good. Oh, except for him using his fat gut feeling and keeping Dobbs in the game because of the flow, etc when in his own words Ben was cleared to play at halftime. He touched the offense and it goes to **** immediately, hhhhmmm.

 

[Coryea]

I've said, on this board, and pretty sure within the last month, that I thought Cowher was a better coach. I don't think I have ever said otherwise. That has nothing to do with whether tomlin is a bad coach or not.

However, the fact is, until Rooney made the "group decision" that we were going to draft Ben, Cowher and Cowher's players couldn't win SB, either. That doesn't make him a bad coach.

No it doesn't, but having a franchise QB makes everything easier, and it's the hardest position to find, Tomlin had one handed to him.
Look at the names of QBs on Super Bowl winning teams, having a top notch QB is almost a must.


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