I'll start a new thread on it.
With Troy, it wasn't just athleticism. He had amazing instincts and impeccable timing. Troy was extremely gifted. Davis may be as 'athletic'; he has a way to go to get those instincts
So you won't answer my post in the other thread? You create a new thread to discuss your biased notion?
I'm still waiting for your answer "coach"
With Troy, it wasn't just athleticism. He had amazing instincts and impeccable timing. Troy was extremely gifted. Davis may be as 'athletic'; he has a way to go to get those instincts
Sean Davis has a loooooong way to go before he should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Troy Polamalu
Did you read? Troy tested faster and stronger. I posted the numbers for you. Do you care to acknowledge my points are correct? Yes, creating another thread was better, to keep all who don't want to talk about away from this thread. The mods did that
Davis will not be as good as a player.
I'll say Troy is 3x the player Davis will be. If you ask me to prove an unknown ( how Davis' career will pan out ) I'll just take the overwhelming odds until enough time passes and tell you I told you son, which by years from now you'll forget the context of the discussion.
Until then Davis missed too many tackles and isn't agile or quick enough to cover in the slot. He's our 5th most valuable safety on the team when all 5 safeties are healthy. At least Thomas plays well on special teams.
Years back the Steelers unwittingly took another safety in round two. I felt he sucked, but he had 4 interceptions and a sack his rookie year. Undaunted I knew he could not cover well at all. His name, Scott Sheilds.
Such instincts aren't coached, and I doubt Davis has them. In terms of playing speed or a 40 yard dash, Troy is noticeably faster.
You are absolutely correct instincts aren't coached. But you doubt Davis has them. According to your figures and luxury of watching Troy play for his entire career, you say playing speed and 40 times Troy is noticeably faster.
Yeah, I can see the .06 faster speed easily....we all have speed geared vision to notice it.
Coach I know you are knowledgable about football, stats etc. It is real hard sometimes though to follow what you push, since its agenda based. Being open minded sometimes can only allow your comments to be more qualitative.
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I do like you Ike because I think you get it. You just like to argue con on what I say at times, thinking it's an agenda when really I never liked the pick and see some red flags waving... More like it I see the defense in desperate need of good DB's and I do not think Davis is it.
There is 40 yard dash time in shorts, which Polamalu was .06 of seconds faster. That's how much faster he was on a track.
Or if you wish you can guess that a player like Polamalu who ran a 4.40 in 4 seconds time runs about 18 miles per hour.
20 Miles per Hour =
29.333333 Feet per Second
.06 of a second at 20 miles per hour would equal roughly 1.57 feet difference. While this is not perfect, it does help illuminate that .06 faster on a 40 yard dash time means something. Football can be a game of inches, but I will add Troy is agiler and cuts and runs with better speed. It's not measured by a test, you just have to know where and when to look to measure this type of speed.
http://www.calculateme.com/Speed/MilesperHour/ToFeetperSecond.htm
And then there is speed in pads. Troy was one of the fastest Steelers in pads that for the defense that started 5 years or more It would take someone like Rod Woodson or Ike Taylor to do better.
I think part of the problem here is if I put Davis under a microscope ( as I did when he was targeted in college, and he was bad in coverage, and off on where he should be ) and say if he had good instincts he should have done X, Y or Z, some take it the wrong way. When your instincts are off or take false step, you lose time in a game that is played fast and your beat, unless you have elitle level speed which Davis does not.
I do not think Davis has good instincts like Troy had. I do not think he has his leadership. Nor do I think Davis is equal to Polamalu as an athlete. But we are comparing a Hall of Famer to be vs a 2nd round pick who's being relegated to part-time duty on a unit where up to 7 players can be on the field at the same time.
I flat out do not like what I see in Davis from a coverage stand point or a tackling fundamental standpoint. Whether he can get a feel for the system remains to be seen, but he doesn't have it now.
Did you read? Troy tested faster and stronger. I posted the numbers for you. Do you care to acknowledge my points are correct? Yes, creating another thread was better, to keep all who don't want to talk about away from this thread. The mods did that
Davis will not be as good as a player.
I'll say Troy is 3x the player Davis will be. If you ask me to prove an unknown ( how Davis' career will pan out ) I'll just take the overwhelming odds until enough time passes and tell you I told you son, which by years from now you'll forget the context of the discussion.
Until then Davis missed too many tackles and isn't agile or quick enough to cover in the slot. He's our 5th most valuable safety on the team when all 5 safeties are healthy. At least Thomas plays well on special teams.
Years back the Steelers unwittingly took another safety in round two. I felt he sucked, but he had 4 interceptions and a sack his rookie year. Undaunted I knew he could not cover well at all. His name, Scott Sheilds.
so there, you did say he was 3x the athlete, and that based on what? you hadn't even researched their workout numbers at the time, so I expose your BS showing that there's 0,04 seconds of difference between one and the other, quite difficult for that to be 3x better.Troy is 3X the athlete that Davis is and tackled much better. Yeah he had some issues adjusting to pass coverage, but he was never described as not quick enough.
Troy's rookie year, where he did not start a game he did this:
4 passes defended, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble. At least he flashed some obvious talent.
The odds of Davis being as good are remote.
I do like you Ike because I think you get it. You just like to argue con on what I say at times, thinking it's an agenda when really I never liked the pick and see some red flags waving... More like it I see the defense in desperate need of good DB's and I do not think Davis is it.
There is 40 yard dash time in shorts, which Polamalu was .06 of seconds faster. That's how much faster he was on a track.
Or if you wish you can guess that a player like Polamalu who ran a 4.40 in 4 seconds time runs about 18 miles per hour.
20 Miles per Hour =
29.333333 Feet per Second
.06 of a second at 20 miles per hour would equal roughly 1.57 feet difference. While this is not perfect, it does help illuminate that .06 faster on a 40 yard dash time means something. Football can be a game of inches, but I will add Troy is agiler and cuts and runs with better speed. It's not measured by a test, you just have to know where and when to look to measure this type of speed.
http://www.calculateme.com/Speed/MilesperHour/ToFeetperSecond.htm
And then there is speed in pads. Troy was one of the fastest Steelers in pads that for the defense that started 5 years or more It would take someone like Rod Woodson or Ike Taylor to do better.
I think part of the problem here is if I put Davis under a microscope ( as I did when he was targeted in college, and he was bad in coverage, and off on where he should be ) and say if he had good instincts he should have done X, Y or Z, some take it the wrong way. When your instincts are off or take false step, you lose time in a game that is played fast and your beat, unless you have elitle level speed which Davis does not.
I do not think Davis has good instincts like Troy had. I do not think he has his leadership. Nor do I think Davis is equal to Polamalu as an athlete. But we are comparing a Hall of Famer to be vs a 2nd round pick who's being relegated to part-time duty on a unit where up to 7 players can be on the field at the same time.
I flat out do not like what I see in Davis from a coverage stand point or a tackling fundamental standpoint. Whether he can get a feel for the system remains to be seen, but he doesn't have it now.
I don't know about you Ark, but 4 inches makes a HUGE difference in the bedroom...
I don't think you can just take 29.333 times .06 and get 1.57 feet and be accurate.
Wouldn't you be better calculating the mph for each person and comparing the feet/sec for each? I get 27.27/sec for a 4.4/40 and 26.9ft/sec for a 4.46/40. That is a different of .37 feet or about 4 inches.
While 4 inches can be HUGE in a football play and I don't think anyone disagreed that 4.4 and 4.46 can make a difference. What people are saying is that it is not a noticeable difference, really, unless you have the two people running side by side. I cant think of anyone on this board who can look at a guy running and say "yeah, that was a 4.4 rather than 4.46". Not. One.
I guess you are the one that can'T read, especially what you said so let me quote you once again:
so there, you did say he was 3x the athlete, and that based on what? you hadn't even researched their workout numbers at the time, so I expose your BS showing that there's 0,04 seconds of difference between one and the other, quite difficult for that to be 3x better.
Now if you want to backpedal (are you a biking coach?) and say that Polamalu is 3x The Player then well ****, of course he is, he's twice better than any current safety on the league and no doubt even better than a green rookie. Polamalu is a Hall of Famer, a Steeler Great and yeah, a player you called a bust.
If you want to argue about instincts there I won't discuss Sean Davis' quality, I won't bash him either because he's just a rook that was asked to do too much too early.
Can someone help us check the math?.
27.27 feet x 4 seconds = 109.08 feet covered. 26.9 feet x 4 seconds = 107.6 feet covered. The difference covered is 1.48 feet, NOT 4 inches. Do you agree with me here?
If the players are running close to each other, you can see the difference between 4.40 and 4.46 I'm sure you can too. One guy gains ground on the other. Daivs lack of instincts / awareness and slower truning ability might cost him more than his speed, which is decent for a safety, but not great.
Can someone help us check the math?.
27.27 feet x 4 seconds = 109.08 feet covered. 26.9 feet x 4 seconds = 107.6 feet covered. The difference covered is 1.48 feet, NOT 4 inches. Do you agree with me here?
If the players are running close to each other, you can see the difference between 4.40 and 4.46 I'm sure you can too. One guy gains ground on the other. Daivs lack of instincts / awareness and slower truning ability might cost him more than his speed, which is decent for a safety, but not great.
06 of a second at 20 miles per hour would equal roughly 1.57 feet difference
Troy is a better Athlete. Maybe 3x is an exaggeration, but he's clearly better. Troy is faster and stronger, and I'd be surprised if Davis can jump like Troy could, or accelerate and hit with that type of power.
And Troy is more than 3x the player right now.
So you have one over exaggeration by me and one under exaggeration my me. I'll call it even.
PS: It was not .04 difference, it was .06 in the 40 Unlike you I won't harp on that....but you can harp on the 3x the athlete comment if needed.