Tag and trade Bud?

[Coach]

Worlids was a Transition Tag, not a Franchise Tag. He played his Transition Tag year and did well. Would have been the top pass rusher as a FA and he retired (so the Steelers didn't get a compensatory draft pick for him).

Never once did Wolids get double digit sacks. His sack totals were 2, 3, 5, 8, 7.5

Also, Bud will be productive wherever he goes. He got significantly better last year with his hands, and that's why he got pressures. You don't lose that.

I'm just honest. If the Steelers can't get him to play this year (which I firmly believe they need him if they want to reach a SB), I want draft value from him, and not a prolonged holdout.

For a tag and trade, the Steelers have to have him sign the contract first, then they can trade him for any value they deem fit. That's different than someone making an offer for Bud long term, while he is non-exclusive franchise tagged. That merits the 2 first round draft picks. Either way, if Bud leaves, so does his contract value, in full.

Hello Cope,

Bud had one good year, otherwise he was Jason Worilds in his last two season on the Steelers. Are you going to gamble 16 million a year that Dupree can keep up the 2019 pace? Bud is our 4-6th best player on defense, behind Watt, Fitz, Hayward and Tuitt...likely Haden and Bush. He shined due to the talent around him.

With Ben back we have a shot at the playoffs with or without Bud. As far as winning a playoff game, that's something Tomlin coached teams had done three times in the past ten years. The window for the super bowl has closed. We need cap space and more draft picks. Tag and trade is the way to go. I'll take a second round pick and 16 million in cap space. A team like Miami who has a ton of cap space and needs a pass rusher can send us their 2nd round pick.

No--Chickillo won't start, we'll either draft an edge rusher or sign a decent one in free agency, say for 7-9 million a year. But cap space, we really need it. Watt and Ju-ju will be on their second round contract before you know it.

 

[43Hitman]

Hello Cope,

Bud had one good year, otherwise he was Jason Worilds in his last two season on the Steelers, Are you going to gamble 16 million a year Dupree can keep up the 2019 pace? Bud is our 4-6th best player on defense, behind Watt, Fitz, Hayward and Tuitt...likely Haden and Bush. He shined due to the talent around him.

With Ben back we have a shot at the playoffs with or without Bud. As far as winning a playoff game, that something Tomlin coached teams had done three times in the past ten years. The window for the super bowl has closed. We need cap space and more draft picks. Tag and trade is the way to go. I'll take a second round pick and 16 million in cap space.

No--Chikillo won't start, we'll either draft an edge rusher or sign a decent one in free agency, say for 7-9 million a year.

And who is this mystery player that is going to give production at 7-9 million a year? This player doesn't exist, so let it go man, just let it go. Shaq Barret was a fluke, so don't even go there.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Bud will regress this year, he had a lot of sacks at the LOS on coverage sacks etc where the QB was scrambling. He does not get constant pressure as evidenced by PFF and our defense was incredibly healthy last year which rarely happens 2 years in a row. Would much rather sign a guy like Juden to a 3 year deal at a much lower coast and it would also serve to hurt our most bitter rival.

Why would the Ravens allow Judon to leave if he can be signed for a much lower cost than Dupree? Seems pretty unlikely.

Intersting situation with Judon and the ravens. Last year the ravens let Bud's Kentucky teammate Za'Darius Smith leave. To that point, Smith was similar to Dupree. He had been good but not great. He had 8.5 sacks and the Ravens let him walk. Last year Smith had 13.5 sacks for GB.

I bet the Ravens wish they kept him Smith. But perhaps they let him leave because they knew what they had in Judon as a replacement. Who is Bud's replacement? Who is Judon's replacement?

Why do people think that quality pass rushers will be available cheap?

Maybe they can trade a 6th rounder for Von Miller.

 

[slashsteel]

Why would the Ravens allow Judon to leave if he can be signed for a much lower cost than Dupree? Seems pretty unlikely.

Intersting situation with Judon and the ravens. Last year the ravens let Bud's Kentucky teammate Za'Darius Smith leave. To that point, Smith was similar to Dupree. He had been good but not great. He had 8.5 sacks and the Ravens let him walk. Last year Smith had 13.5 sacks for GB.

I bet the Ravens wish they kept him Smith. But perhaps they let him leave because they knew what they had in Judon as a replacement. Who is Bud's replacement? Who is Judon's replacement?

Why do people think that quality pass rushers will be available cheap?

Maybe they can trade a 6th rounder for Von Miller.

I read the rats are angling toward tagging him.

 

[43Hitman]

I read the rats are angling toward tagging him.

No way! He isn't worth 16 million a year! Am I doing it right?

 

[slashsteel]

Hello Cope,

Bud had one good year, otherwise he was Jason Worilds in his last two season on the Steelers. Are you going to gamble 16 million a year that Dupree can keep up the 2019 pace? Bud is our 4-6th best player on defense, behind Watt, Fitz, Hayward and Tuitt...likely Haden and Bush. He shined due to the talent around him.

With Ben back we have a shot at the playoffs with or without Bud. As far as winning a playoff game, that's something Tomlin coached teams had done three times in the past ten years. The window for the super bowl has closed. We need cap space and more draft picks. Tag and trade is the way to go. I'll take a second round pick and 16 million in cap space. A team like Miami who has a ton of cap space and needs a pass rusher can send us their 2nd round pick.

No--Chickillo won't start, we'll either draft an edge rusher or sign a decent one in free agency, say for 7-9 million a year. But cap space, we really need it. Watt and Ju-ju will be on their second round contract before you know it.

Get rid of your boy chickislow and that will free up money to sign the better player in Dupree.

You are right he won't start ever, Anywhere.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Wow its the Steelers decision, what ground breaking news. Bud is a better than average player but thats it. Around the league you can point to every single player getting flags, etc.That dos not change the stats or who they are. He is a guy that doesnt make a team great and of curse was on the field in crunch time when this defense again cant hold late game leads, he disappears in the clutch his entire tuenure her and paying him 6 million is a huge mistake.

A light bulb that just doesn't quite emitt .........






Salute the nation

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

somewhere there's a ravens fan saying that Judon isn't worth $16 Mil and they should sign Dupree for half that

 

[SteelerFan448]

Dupree isn't as bad as what many on this board believe. It doesn't help that he was so poorly coached during the first few years of his career. It took them until year 3 to switch sides and until last year to use the OLBs primarily as pass rushers. As a result, Watt and Dupree exploded. Factor in the cap has potential to explode in a few years and some of the highly paid older veterans will be off the books, the contract value isn't as bad as it seems. Average players get overpaid all of the time, that's how it works and Dupree is an above average player. Speculation is that Hargrave will command similar numbers on the open market.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Speculation is that Hargrave will command similar numbers on the open market.

Hargrave is okay but he's Just A Guy and not someone who can't be replaced. I would look for him to be a cap casualty.

 

[steelhurt]

I don’t know. I pimped Bud big time when he was coming out of Kentucky and was elated when we got him but like most have been disappointed.
I hate giving him16 mil. but as some have said, we won’t get anyone better unless we pay more and with our cap forget it.
And no Coach we will not get anyone better for 7 or 8 mil per. Not happening!
I guess we have no choice but to tag and try and negotiate and hopefully he has a lights out season. I know I’m not a fan of signing him to that kind of money but also would not have a problem if Bud proves me wrong.


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[Coryea]

Marcus Golden of the Giants, had 12.5 sacks his second season, then had an ACL injury had 10 sacks last season with 27 QB Hits.
Jordan Jenkins of the Jets has 15 sacks over the past two seasons, 4 FF's, 28 QB hits, 3 PDs without Watt opposite him.
Dupree has 17 sacks, 5 FF, 4 PDs, 30 QB Hits over the past two seasons.
Even a guy like Vic Beasley.

Not sure what these guys will get, but there are players available if Bud wants to much or the market is too high.

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[43Hitman]

Marcus Golden of the Giants, had 12.5 sacks his second season, then had an ACL injury had 10 sacks last season with 27 QB Hits.
Jordan Jenkins of the Jets has 15 sacks over the past two seasons, 4 FF's, 28 QB hits, 3 PDs without Watt opposite him.
Dupree has 17 sacks, 5 FF, 4 PDs, 30 QB Hits over the past two seasons.
Even a guy like Vic Beasley.

Not sure what these guys will get, but there are players available if Bud wants to much or the market is too high.

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Yeah but the market is the same for all OLB's. Meaning that if those guys produced at the same or better than Bud, then it would seem to me they would be just as expensive. Unless I am looking at this incorrectly.

 

[slashsteel]

Yeah but the market is the same for all OLB's. Meaning that if those guys produced at the same or better than Bud, then it would seem to me they would be just as expensive. Unless I am looking at this incorrectly.

You have to mix it pass coverage capability and run D rating which is why it is difficult to compare one against the other. Each player has three areas that need evals.

As we know stats don't always paint a clear picture against the run and pass.

 

[Coryea]

No one considered Nelson that good when we signed him, those guys didn't play on a defense with a DPOY caliber opposite them either.
I have zero idea what they'll get, but what if you can one of them for 12 per over 3-4 years, and Buds looking for 16-17 per?

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[Stryker]

Hello Cope,

Bud had one good year, otherwise he was Jason Worilds in his last two season on the Steelers. Are you going to gamble 16 million a year that Dupree can keep up the 2019 pace? Bud is our 4-6th best player on defense, behind Watt, Fitz, Hayward and Tuitt...likely Haden and Bush. He shined due to the talent around him.

With Ben back we have a shot at the playoffs with or without Bud. As far as winning a playoff game, that's something Tomlin coached teams had done three times in the past ten years. The window for the super bowl has closed. We need cap space and more draft picks. Tag and trade is the way to go. I'll take a second round pick and 16 million in cap space. A team like Miami who has a ton of cap space and needs a pass rusher can send us their 2nd round pick.

No--Chickillo won't start, we'll either draft an edge rusher or sign a decent one in free agency, say for 7-9 million a year. But cap space, we really need it. Watt and Ju-ju will be on their second round contract before you know it.

Hey Coach,

The only comparison between Worlids and Bud is their pass rush production/pressures. Dropping in coverage, defending the run, the ability to chase and tackle mobile QBs, all go to Bud's favor, and that isn't even close. Yes, I tag Bud this year. Why? I'm only paying him one year on a tag, and can let him walk next year if he doesn't perform. After watching him understand how to get to the QB and force turnovers, those are the guys you want to keep your Defense at the top of the league. Let him go, and the pass rush then becomes nothing but question marks. I build to win this year, and to do so, I believe Bud is the most important piece (I wrote an article on it if you want to read my commentary on the news side of the site).

Ben is key, 100% agree. I'm more worried about maintaining defensive dominance. Take the pressure off of Ben and let him manage the team to victory behind that stellar D. And as I already stated in my above article reference. This is the last year, the window closes next year. Check my article for the list of 2021 UFAs. You think this year has some tough decisions? Next year boggles the mind on how much talent is not under contract. I'm not as down with a tag and trade, but I do non-exclusive tag, so if anyone is dumb enough to offer him a high contract, we get 2 firsts. And the value of Bud for a 2nd rounder is not even close to the actuality. He's an excellent ALL AROUND OLB, more to playing the edge than just rushing the passer, and he checks all the boxes with authority.

I will be surprised if Chickillo lasts 2 more weeks. You will not find a replacement for Bud this year in FA or the draft without paying more than we would have for his tag. JuJu is a UFA next year, and Watt will be 5th year optioned. I expect the Steelers to announce it in March.

 

[Gridiron]

Marcus Golden of the Giants, had 12.5 sacks his second season, then had an ACL injury had 10 sacks last season with 27 QB Hits.
Jordan Jenkins of the Jets has 15 sacks over the past two seasons, 4 FF's, 28 QB hits, 3 PDs without Watt opposite him.
Dupree has 17 sacks, 5 FF, 4 PDs, 30 QB Hits over the past two seasons.
Even a guy like Vic Beasley.

Not sure what these guys will get, but there are players available if Bud wants to much or the market is too high.

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Plus none of them had a Watt playing on the other side demanding a double team. We will over pay Bud and pay the price, giving huge money to a good player never works out well.

 

[SteelerFan448]

No one considered Nelson that good when we signed him, those guys didn't play on a defense with a DPOY caliber opposite them either.
I have zero idea what they'll get, but what if you can one of them for 12 per over 3-4 years, and Buds looking for 16-17 per?

In two years that value is going to look relatively small.

 

[Litos]

No one considered Nelson that good when we signed him, those guys didn't play on a defense with a DPOY caliber opposite them either.
I have zero idea what they'll get, but what if you can one of them for 12 per over 3-4 years, and Buds looking for 16-17 per?

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Or you can pick another moncrief but at OLB... It's a roll of the dice

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[Steelerfan81]

Worilds transition tag was 9.7 million back in 2014.

 

[Gridiron]

Or you can pick another moncrief but at OLB... It's a roll of the dice

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Moncrief has had a much better career than bud , last year was an abbheration. for both of them.

 

[Litos]

Moncrief has had a much better career than bud , last year was an abbheration. for both of them.

Yeah, that's why moncrief was getting near franchise tag money when he hit free agency... Oh wait he didn't.

Look I'm not a bud Dupree fan but given the current situation and the future cap increase I can live with keeping Dupree over other players like Chickillo and Hargrave who only plays around 40% of the snaps and that number would decrease with a healthy tuitt

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[slashsteel]

Moncrief has had a much better career than bud , last year was an abbheration. for both of them.

 

[Coryea]

In two years that value is going to look relatively small.

agreed, but it'd be a 5 million per savings either way, but like I said I have no idea what those other guys would want and I have no idea what kind of market there is for Bud, but you don't over pay just to keep a guy regardless of the cap. The fact the Steelers didn't offer Bud an extension last season, and instead used the 5th year option on him, tells me they weren't impressed alot by him prior to this season.

I've said before, I'd be fine signing him long term in the 13 million per range, but I'm not making him one of the highest paid OLB's in the league, he's not one of the best OLB's in the league, especially after just one good season.

 

[SteelerSask2]

This is one of those decisions that putting all criticisms aside I'm glad I'm not making. Most if not all of us are armchair GMs and coaches let's face it. That is why we are hear. And a lot of the decisions are pretty much no brainers. This like the Bell decision is a 50/50. I think you are equally likely to be wrong here. And to me a franchise tag versus a long term contract is saying something here much like Bell. Without question Bell would have got a long term deal if not for his drug issues. No way they let a talent like that get to the final year of his deal. Likewise the Steelers clearly have concern about Bud's production if they franchise tag him. If you coach him every single day of the season from May OTAs to January you should have a pretty good feel for the player. The fact he was optioned last year and quite possibly franchised this year is saying a lot.