Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

[Tibs]

Did Archer beat-up someone in your family Idioteque? Never seen this much vitriol regarding a draft pick, and we know there's plenty of hate each and every year. But this seems...personal, like you really, really don't want Archer to succeed. Just wondering...

 

[Idioteque]

And yet he was valued enough to get a 3-year contract for $12 million ($4.5 million) guaranteed from the Titans...

He surely broke the bank there, eh?

Furthermore, it's definitely wise to judge a player's value by what an NFL front office will pay them. The fact that a team gave him Ziggy Hood money proves what a valuable cog he is. Granted, the team he had been on for four years had no interest, but still.

 

[Idioteque]

Did Archer beat-up someone in your family Idioteque? Never seen this much vitriol regarding a draft pick, and we know there's plenty of hate each and every year. But this seems...personal, like you really, really don't want Archer to succeed. Just wondering...

I'm sorry.

Rah rah Steelers win. Because Steelers!!

******* A.

 

[Idioteque]

As TMC said earlier, I regret entering this discussion. Just more of the same "you're not a real fan!" bullshit. More repetitive posts that have been responded to and debunked. More strawmen. Ho hum.

I'm told it's hyperbolic to say nobody of his size, let alone skillset, has ever become valuable, yet nobody can drum up a valuable player with his skillset.

Archer is phenomenal. A part-time KO returner brings infinite value, especially to an 8-8 team. He will hold up better in the NFL than he did in the MAC. He will suddenly stop fumbling at a record-breaking rate. He will be the first player of his skillset in history to become valuable. He's basically Barry Sanders + Percy Harvin x Devin Hester. Because the Steelers.

 

[SteelerAl]

He surely broke the bank there, eh?

Furthermore, it's definitely wise to judge a player's value by what an NFL front office will pay them. The fact that a team gave him Ziggy Hood money proves what a valuable cog he is. Granted, the team he had been on for four years had no interest, but still.

FYI, I added more to my previous post so please have a look. Again, you make plenty of valid points but your argument taken in its entirety is way over the top and wrong. It has happened and a team was willing to pay a second contract to a guy who did it (things you stated were impossible and could/will never happen).

 

[keslerclan]

I get not liking the pick where he was taken BUT all the other stuff is a bit of a reach. I don't think the FO considers Archer a 'chronic fumbler'. He had 481 touches (including punt and kick returns) at KSt and fumbled 13 times in his career. Thats a fumble every 37 touches or 2.7% of his touches. When he was healthy in 2012, he had the 'bulk' of his touches and production. He had 215 touches, scored 20 TDs and fumbled 2 times (1 every 107.5 touches) or less than .09% of his touches.

His size is not a concern either, He is not much different than LaRod Stephens Howling (180#) as a RB nor Sanders or Brown at WR. With regard to his 'lengthy' injury history, you do realize we have 300# offensive linemen with more injury history than Archer? He missed no more games with injury than our WRs (and he was primarily a RB in college). Sure, he went against non-NFL talent at Kent State BUT its not like they were Pee-Wee sized players either. He still had 300# DL, 240# LBs and 190# DBs trying to hit him in school.

Now that we have him, I think he can be a 'slot' WR or 'bunch' WR and an excellent 'screen' or 'outlet' guy for BB. Hopefully he isn't asked to run between the tackles but give the guy the credit he is due. He was a Heisman candidate coming of a fantastic year in 2012 and injured his ankle in the first game of the season in 2013 and wasn't ever healthy till the end of the year.

 

[Litos]

I'm sorry.

Rah rah Steelers win. Because Steelers!!

******* A.

They are asking you to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, just that. No one is saying he will be the next hall of famer on the team

 

[Idioteque]

FYI, I added more to my previous post so please have a look. Again, you make plenty of valid points but your argument taken in its entirety is way over the top and wrong. It has happened and a team was willing to pay a second contract to a guy who did it (things you stated were impossible and could/will never happen).

I don't see them as apples-to-apples players, and I don't consider McCluster a valuable commodity. I can't speak for the Texans, but judging a player's value based upon one front office giving him a tiny contract to return their kicks is shortsighted.

McCluster is a bigger, more accomplished player, and he serves as the shining upside for Archer's potential. Even if Archer reaches McCluster's modest production, it will still probably be a poor pick. That's all. As I said before, I'm not here to make some absolute prediction, just to point out that it's never really happened and why.

 

[SteelerAl]

I don't see them as apples-to-apples players, and I don't consider McCluster a valuable commodity. I can't speak for the Texans, but judging a player's value based upon one front office giving him a tiny contract to return their kicks is shortsighted.

McCluster is a bigger, more accomplished player, and he serves as the shining upside for Archer's potential. Even if Archer reaches McCluster's modest production, it will still probably be a poor pick. That's all. As I said before, I'm not here to make some absolute prediction, just to point out that it's never really happened and why.

How the heck is McCluster bigger? One inch taller, same weight with shorter arms and smaller hands? REALLY? For someone who is so focused and obsessed with measurables, you are a bit sloppy/selective in their application.

FWIW, I do think McCluster is about the ceiling we're talking about and that's not worth the #97 pick in such a good draft. But it is value. It is something that a team (the Titans) was willing to pay for, that Whisenhunt thinks will bring something to his offense and special teams. I wouldn't be typing any of this if your posts weren't so over the top proclaiming that these things could NEVER, EVER happen in a bazillion years in this universe or any parallel or alternate universe.

 

[Idioteque]

I get not liking the pick where he was taken BUT all the other stuff is a bit of a reach. I don't think the FO considers Archer a 'chronic fumbler'. He had 481 touches (including punt and kick returns) at KSt and fumbled 13 times in his career. Thats a fumble every 37 touches or 2.7% of his touches. When he was healthy in 2012, he had the 'bulk' of his touches and production. He had 215 touches, scored 20 TDs and fumbled 2 times (1 every 107.5 touches) or less than .09% of his touches.

I don't see how that's not chronic. It's an extraordinarily high number. It's a shade over a season's worth of touches for a full-time back, and if a guy fumbles 13 times in a season, it's a massive problem.

His size is not a concern either, He is not much different than LaRod Stephens Howling (180#) as a RB nor Sanders or Brown at WR. With regard to his 'lengthy' injury history, you do realize we have 300# offensive linemen with more injury history than Archer? He missed no more games with injury than our WRs (and he was primarily a RB in college). Sure, he went against non-NFL talent at Kent State BUT its not like they were Pee-Wee sized players either. He still had 300# DL, 240# LBs and 190# DBs trying to hit him in school.

Stephens-Howling has never provided third-round value in the NFL. I liked him, but the shred that he did provide occurred when kickoff returns actually mattered. And I don't know why you put the word lengthy in quotes. Archer's dealt with a lot of injuries, and history/common sense tell us that guy who's much, much smaller than all of his peers is more likely to keep getting injured.

Now that we have him, I think he can be a 'slot' WR or 'bunch' WR and an excellent 'screen' or 'outlet' guy for BB. Hopefully he isn't asked to run between the tackles but give the guy the credit he is due. He was a Heisman candidate coming of a fantastic year in 2012 and injured his ankle in the first game of the season in 2013 and wasn't ever healthy till the end of the year.

Those guys are asked to do more than catch and run. They're asked to block at times, to run into traffic at times, to fight off a jam, etc. If you put a guy on the field who can't do any of those "little" things, the defense knows immediately that he's either getting the ball in space or serving as a decoy. If all you needed to be successful in the NFL was run a great 40, we'd know it by now, and all of the Chris Raineys wouldn't be out of the league. But they all are.

I give him credit for a good 2012 and a fantastic 40 time. I don't think he's the scum of the earth. I considered him a fifth-round prospect. Not too shabby; I'm not even a seventh..

Too much sensitivity around here. He's either Barry Sanders in my eyes, or I secretly hate the Steelers and hope the kid dies in his sleep. It's much closer to the middle.

 

[Idioteque]

How the heck is McCluster bigger? One inch taller, same weight with shorter arms and smaller hands? REALLY? For someone who is so focused and obsessed with measurables, you are a bit sloppy/selective in their application.

Two inches taller. It's not a massive difference, but tell me you look at a 6' receiver and a 6'2 receiver as exactly the same.

FWIW, I do think McCluster is about the ceiling we're talking about and that's not worth the #97 pick in such a good draft. But it is value. It is something that a team (the Titans) was willing to pay for, that Whisenhunt thinks will bring something to his offense and special teams. I wouldn't be typing any of this if your posts weren't so over the top proclaiming that these things could NEVER, EVER happen in a bazillion years in this universe or any parallel or alternate universe.

You'll need to quote me on that. I've stated repeatedly that it has never happened, and that his extenuating circumstances (fumbles, injury history, lack of a true position, etc., etc.) make it appear even less likely to happen. I remember typing this:

Look, nobody here is trying to make mystical predictions. What we're doing is using history and common sense to analyze the pick, and by all logic, it was a very poor gamble, since nobody of Archer's ilk (not just size - fumbling, durability, lack of a true position) succeeds. History suggests Archer won't have a role in the NFL, and that the Steelers have been trying to find a super-athletic open-field slash guy for many years and have usually failed, and that Archer lacks 95% of the qualities needed to be that guy. Common sense tells us that we skipped over a lot of future NFL contributors to take him. (I don't know which ones will become good, but I guarantee a handful of players taken after Archer will be big-time contributors. Archer may himself, but there are probably 50 guys taken later that have much, much better chances to.)

Archer could well become the first guy with his size and skillset to become a contributor. Marcus Gilbert could be moved to WR and catch 200 passes this year. We're not trying to "prove" the future. It doesn't change the fact that his odds are incredibly long, and it looks unlikely he'll be the guy to buck that trend.

At this point, I've got nothing more to say about it. Obviously, time will tell Archer's story. I could be wrong. Archer could hit a late growth spurt and put some muscle on his body. He could learn to stop fumbling. Nobody can see the future. Just so, so many red flags for a third-round pick with no durability and no position. Frankly, I'm fine with gambles like this as long as they come nice and late and don't cost us quality players. You didn't hear a peep from me about Rainey. I think this one will ultimately cost us a much more valuable player than Archer, as I don't think he's going to dress for many games in the NFL. But we'll see.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Now that we have him, I think he can be a 'slot' WR or 'bunch' WR and an excellent 'screen' or 'outlet' guy for BB. Hopefully he isn't asked to run between the tackles but give the guy the credit he is due. He was a Heisman candidate coming of a fantastic year in 2012 and injured his ankle in the first game of the season in 2013 and wasn't ever healthy till the end of the year.

I think this is where the enthusiasm for the pick falls apart. As has been pointed out, he will be a speed bump to a blitzing LB, so he has no value as a third-down RB trying to block in the backfield. That makes his contribution pretty one-dimensional and easy to defend, regardless of his straight-line speed.

Maybe I (and lots of others) are wrong, and he'll be the Super Bowl MVP in February. It is just a puzzling pick since we don't really have depth issues at RB, with Bell and Blount making a pretty good 1-2 tandem, and ostensibly there were serviceable depth picks available at positions of real need that we could have taken. He's arguably a solution without a problem, unless he's strictly a return guy, in which case the comparisons to Rainey are likely apt. Rainey's biggest problem was that when a guy his size runs full speed into a guy running the opposite direction at full speed, and that other guy weighs 60 pounds more than him, he got knocked the **** out.

 

[Hollywood Bags]

He's either Barry Sanders in my eyes, or I secretly hate the Steelers and hope the kid dies in his sleep.

That's a common problem around here.

 

[FordFairLane]

I think this is where the enthusiasm for the pick falls apart. As has been pointed out, he will be a speed bump to a blitzing LB, so he has no value as a third-down RB trying to block in the backfield. That makes his contribution pretty one-dimensional and easy to defend, regardless of his straight-line speed.

Maybe I (and lots of others) are wrong, and he'll be the Super Bowl MVP in February. It is just a puzzling pick since we don't really have depth issues at RB, with Bell and Blount making a pretty good 1-2 tandem, and ostensibly there were serviceable depth picks available at positions of real need that we could have taken. He's arguably a solution without a problem, unless he's strictly a return guy, in which case the comparisons to Rainey are likely apt. Rainey's biggest problem was that when a guy his size runs full speed into a guy running the opposite direction at full speed, and that other guy weighs 60 pounds more than him, he got knocked the **** out.

I don't think people are getting that he is NOT Bell or Blount and he is NOT going to get 300 carries or 100 catches. He will never block a blitzing LB but maybe get behind one of a screen play or two. If you think he's going to be more than a return guy with some nitch plays you are crazy. But that all being said he for what they are looking to do with him he will get carries/catches while Bryant could be the next Brandon Marshall or be the next Limas Sweed. Archer is the safer pick when it comes to contributing next year even if it's only as a return man. Don't get me wrong I liked the Bryant pick and even more when I realized we still got Archer in the third. I have a feeling Archer does not make it past a few teams in the early 4th. Maybe he would but the fact we went ahead and grabbed Bryant in the 4th makes it all the better.

Archer is a bullet in the chamber, and X factor, a guy who can on any play go 90+ yards and get a TD. You won't see Bell or Blount ever do that.

 

[deljzc]

While I have real concerns with Archer's size, my biggest problem is really the fact his combine/speed pushed him up draft boards so much.

I just don't trust those guys.

I don't think there is any way, in any reality, that going into the combine our big board (or any other big board in the league) has Archer even as a round 5-6 talent. Small school, declining production, injury concerns.

Then he runs a 4.20 and I'm supposed to think he magically becomes a 3rd rounder? The tape before he ran a 4.20 proved he was fast. You use the combine to verify what the tape tells you (which this did), not reinvent his ranking.

It's just too high for a small school scat back/return specialist. End of story. At least Rainey produced against SEC defenders. At least Rainey was recruited as a top high school prospect. And it was a stretch to draft him in the 5th round.

This kid literally came out of no where. Excuse me for being very, very skeptical.

 

[Tibs]

This kid literally came out of no where. Excuse me for being very, very skeptical.

I'm afraid you've convinced yourself - along with others - of something that's simply not true.

All of the links below are from before the 2014 combine, and Archer's blazing 40 time.

First, he was seriously considering leaving for the NFL a year earlier, where he was given a 3rd round grade after his jr. year:

"After spearheading one of the most successful seasons in school history, Archer's explosiveness garnered the attention of NFL scouts, who ranked him as high as a third-round draft pick. But, instead of bolting for the NFL, Archer decided to return to Kent State for his senior season."
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/88633/kent-state-rb-archer-takes-aim-at-the-future

Again, these are all written well before the combine>

"In my mind, Archer is a cross between Austin and Denard Robinson with a hint of Darren Sproles as a receiver."
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/1/17/5319944/scouting-the-draft-dri-archer-rb-kent-state

"He can fly,’’ Clawson said. “When he gets into space, the distance between him and the guys chasing him just grows and grows. And the guys chasing him are guys who I think are fast players. It's a different speed.''
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2013/08/at_kent_state_speed_thrills_fo.html

You wouldn't expect anything less from the guy who posted video-game-like numbers in 2012:
—1,429 rushing yards (9.0 yards per carry) and 16 TDs
—Team-high 39 receptions for team-best 561 yards and four TDs
—Averaged 36.9 yards on 16 kickoff returns with touchdowns of 98, 98, and 99 yards
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...ate-comic-strip-braxton-miller-johnny-manziel

Also from 2012
Dri Archer has become a game-changer all over the field as the 5-8, 175-pound junior from Laurel, Fla., has used his amazing speed to turn limited touches into big plays and touchdowns. Already this season, he has delivered 30 plays of 10 yards or more -- including 18 beyond 20 yards -- in runs, receptions and returns. He has 11 touchdowns on just 71 touches. That's a touchdown every 6.4 times he touches the football, 13.2 points a game. Archer is averaging 47.7 yards per kickoff return, best in the nation.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2012/10/in_a_golden_flash_dri_archer_k.html

Archer is a player without a position, and that's a good thing. While small in stature, Archer is electric on the field. He can break a big play at any moment, whether that's as a running back, wide receiver or special teams player. Archer's speed is legit and he has the shiftiness to go with it. An NFL team looking for a gadget player, or offensive weapon as Denard Robinson is being called, can find it in Archer.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...lil-mack-and-dri-archer-at-the-top-of-the-mac

Any team in the NFL could use Archer as he is a playmaker once you get the ball in his hands. From looking at game film on him, here are the positives about Archer’s game. He is a good kick returner. We see in the NFL how field position can make a difference and Archer at any moment can take a kickoff to the endzone. When Archer is on the field, he has shifty moves almost like Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy. With those shifty moves, you can lineup Archer anywhere on the field. He can lineup as a wide receiver and can especially be used in the slot. Dri Archer also has great speed, which stood out to me when watching him play. He can go from 0 to 60 in a matter of seconds. As a running back, Archer can cause matchup problems for linebackers on screens and in the flat. Also as a running back, he follows his blocks well, can hit the hole, has great vision and despite his size can run in between the tackles.
http://www.totalsportslive.com/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-dri-archer/

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So, to sit here and argue that the Steelers suddenly saw his 40 time at the combine and made a Raiders-like move to draft him is pure fantasy. Archer's been a known commodity for a couple of years now, and has been putting up big numbers, particularly the 2012 season stood out, so he's been on the scouts' radar for quite some time. The fact that Archer ran a blazing fast 40 time at the combine simply reconfirmed what everyone already knew, the kid has a special set of wheels. His on field production as a RB probably impressed the Steelers the most, with his return skills a close second.

 

[Steelz]

There was a link on NFL.com that showed the Steelers board and they really wanted Odell Beckham as thier #1 pick at 15. That being said I don't think they'd drafted Archer or Bryant had he been there as Beckham could've provided both WR/KR needs. But I do think Idioteque has some valid points, where do you use him? Besides the obvious KR, my answer would be 3rd and 8+, as we know no one likes to run the ball more on 3rd & long than Todd Haley. 3rd & 20, put Ben in the shootgun have Archer in the backfield, run a draw, sweep,toss, screen & this is the guy that'll pick it up. Or atleast have the defense play in to account for him & go over the top for it.

 

[FordFairLane]

While I have real concerns with Archer's size, my biggest problem is really the fact his combine/speed pushed him up draft boards so much.

I just don't trust those guys.

I don't think there is any way, in any reality, that going into the combine our big board (or any other big board in the league) has Archer even as a round 5-6 talent. Small school, declining production, injury concerns.

Then he runs a 4.20 and I'm supposed to think he magically becomes a 3rd rounder? The tape before he ran a 4.20 proved he was fast. You use the combine to verify what the tape tells you (which this did), not reinvent his ranking.

It's just too high for a small school scat back/return specialist. End of story. At least Rainey produced against SEC defenders. At least Rainey was recruited as a top high school prospect. And it was a stretch to draft him in the 5th round.

This kid literally came out of no where. Excuse me for being very, very skeptical.

Maybe his combine did push him up the board but that doesn't mean the Steelers weren't interested before hand. They did take Rainey in the 5th and if Archer didn't blow up the combine maybe he would have been around in the 5th. BUT at the same time I saw a ton of Mock Drafts that you and TMC had Bryant going to us in the 2nd. Would it have been better to go Bryant second, CB third, and not draft Archer at all? I for one am glad we got Shazier, Tuitt one and two and still got two speedy weapons in Archer and Bryant 3 and 4.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Question trying to find it on google but it wasnt clear. Does anybody remember if Randle El returned punts in college?

 

[FordFairLane]

No, he was the QB. He did at the senior bowl or shrine game he was in and looked natural at it.

 

[USDA#1]

There was a link on NFL.com that showed the Steelers board and they really wanted Odell Beckham as thier #1 pick at 15.

Would like to see that.

a quick Google and nfl.com search returned no love.

 

[TMC]

Maybe his combine did push him up the board but that doesn't mean the Steelers weren't interested before hand. They did take Rainey in the 5th and if Archer blow up the combine maybe he would have been around in the 5th. BUT at the same time I saw a ton of Mock Drafts that you and TMC had Bryant going to us in the 2nd. Would it have been better to go Bryant second, CB third, and not draft Archer at all? I for one am glad we got Shazier, Tuitt one and two and still got two speedy weapons in Archer and Bryant 3 and 4.

Don't know if Bryant was the right pick in the 2nd. I think the Steelers had a plan, a plan none of us knew about. It appears that the plan heading in was to fix the defense, up the middle specifically. If that was the case, the Bryant is not the guy in the 2nd.

My argument against Archer is not value based. I do not want him in the 3rd, 5th, or even 7th. I think the chance that a guy his size, with his experience and areas of expertise, combined with his red flags, means he has a very very small window for success. People point to him being a return guy. Great. So was Stefan Logan. Logan had 1400+ yards as a kick returner for us in one season. He also returned 30 punts. We cut him. He was picked up by Detroit and had 1400 yards for them on kickoffs. He had 30 punt returns as well. He stayed in the league 4 seasons, never had less than a 20 yard average as a kickoff guy and fielded more than 30 punts a season.

He was a former RB learning the WR spot. We had him FOR FREE. He was healthy. We still cut his *** and he went to Detroit to play for 3 more seasons as a specialist, until they cut him too. Then, we drafted Rainey only to watch him flame out. We signed LSH to watch him blow out a knee. Now, we have spend a top 100 pick on another guy.

We cut a healthy player that was a very good returner. Just dumped him. Now, we need that position filled so badly we go and spend a 3rd on it? It was garbage to us a few seasons ago. Kevin Colbert said he viewed a return man as a starter, yet they did not view Logan as a starter and cut him to keep 3rd string guys.

McCluster is the high water mark for guys like this and he had one good season. The others leave a lot to be desired. And, people want to shrug off 13 fumbles in just over 400 touches, but that is a lot. That is a lot of fumbles. If Bell fumbled that often (per touch), he would likely be on his way out the door. If you limit his touches to kickoffs and punt returns, that puts his touches in a season at about 90, or three fumbles a season, likely in our own end.

He has some injury questions. Doubt he gets more durable as he ages. He was a runningback and a "WR" that ran a lot of screens and jet draws. Small catch radius. He has some drops when he tries to make catches near the ground, just does not track well. Does not high point, not going to take the ball from anyone. Very limited adjustment skills, needs to use his feet to run under it and does his best work when the ball his knees to shoulders. Has great speed, only had 2 receptions over 25 yards last season, one was a corner where the DB completely lost him and he made the catch with no one within 10 yards, he uses his speed to beat him to the endzone. The second, he is running a deep in, safety dives for the ball, misses, and he can walk the final 35 yards. Other than that, was easily handled deep, actually had some INTs on deeper passes because he does not compete hard for the ball. Limited route runner, looks more like a RB when receiving than a receiver. Has some drops in traffic, appears to not like the footsteps.

He might be in the WR room some, but right now, he is a RB learning it. His only saving grace is his kick returns (as he has to learn punt returns as well, I think he will have trouble with guys bearing down on him while making the catch).

Again, we spent a 3rd on a guy we hope can do what a guy we threw away had proved he could do. I just do not see the logic.

IF he ran a 4.50, would you still love the pick? Think about it. If he did not have elite speed, would you love this pick? I bet many would not.

 

[TMC]

Question trying to find it on google but it wasnt clear. Does anybody remember if Randle El returned punts in college?

Yes, he did. He returned punts his final season and was very good at it.

 

[deljzc]

I'm afraid you've convinced yourself - along with others - of something that's simply not true.

All of the links below are from before the 2014 combine, and Archer's blazing 40 time.

First, he was seriously considering leaving for the NFL a year earlier, where he was given a 3rd round ranking after his jr. year:

"After spearheading one of the most successful seasons in school history, Archer's explosiveness garnered the attention of NFL scouts, who ranked him as high as a third-round draft pick. But, instead of bolting for the NFL, Archer decided to return to Kent State for his senior season."
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/88633/kent-state-rb-archer-takes-aim-at-the-future

Again, these are all written well before the combine>

"In my mind, Archer is a cross between Austin and Denard Robinson with a hint of Darren Sproles as a receiver."
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/1/17/5319944/scouting-the-draft-dri-archer-rb-kent-state

"He can fly,’’ Clawson said. “When he gets into space, the distance between him and the guys chasing him just grows and grows. And the guys chasing him are guys who I think are fast players. It's a different speed.''
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2013/08/at_kent_state_speed_thrills_fo.html

You wouldn't expect anything less from the guy who posted video-game-like numbers in 2012:
—1,429 rushing yards (9.0 yards per carry) and 16 TDs
—Team-high 39 receptions for team-best 561 yards and four TDs
—Averaged 36.9 yards on 16 kickoff returns with touchdowns of 98, 98, and 99 yards
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...ate-comic-strip-braxton-miller-johnny-manziel

Also from 2012
Dri Archer has become a game-changer all over the field as the 5-8, 175-pound junior from Laurel, Fla., has used his amazing speed to turn limited touches into big plays and touchdowns. Already this season, he has delivered 30 plays of 10 yards or more -- including 18 beyond 20 yards -- in runs, receptions and returns. He has 11 touchdowns on just 71 touches. That's a touchdown every 6.4 times he touches the football, 13.2 points a game. Archer is averaging 47.7 yards per kickoff return, best in the nation.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2012/10/in_a_golden_flash_dri_archer_k.html

Archer is a player without a position, and that's a good thing. While small in stature, Archer is electric on the field. He can break a big play at any moment, whether that's as a running back, wide receiver or special teams player. Archer's speed is legit and he has the shiftiness to go with it. An NFL team looking for a gadget player, or offensive weapon as Denard Robinson is being called, can find it in Archer.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...lil-mack-and-dri-archer-at-the-top-of-the-mac

Any team in the NFL could use Archer as he is a playmaker once you get the ball in his hands. From looking at game film on him, here are the positives about Archer’s game. He is a good kick returner. We see in the NFL how field position can make a difference and Archer at any moment can take a kickoff to the endzone. When Archer is on the field, he has shifty moves almost like Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy. With those shifty moves, you can lineup Archer anywhere on the field. He can lineup as a wide receiver and can especially be used in the slot. Dri Archer also has great speed, which stood out to me when watching him play. He can go from 0 to 60 in a matter of seconds. As a running back, Archer can cause matchup problems for linebackers on screens and in the flat. Also as a running back, he follows his blocks well, can hit the hole, has great vision and despite his size can run in between the tackles.
http://www.totalsportslive.com/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-dri-archer/

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So, to sit here and argue that the Steelers suddenly saw his 40 time at the combine and made a Raiders-like move to draft him is pure fantasy. Archer's been a known commodity for a couple of years now, and has been putting up big numbers, particularly the 2012 season stood out, so he's been on the scouts' radar for quite some time. The fact that Archer ran a blazing fast 40 time at the combine simply reconfirmed what everyone already knew, the kid has a special set of wheels. His on field production as a RB probably impressed the Steelers the most, with his return skills a close second.

Those articles just support my position.

The Jets articles and the last article (total sports live) both declare him a 4th-5th rounder and they are SUPPORTERS and try and talk down the height/weight issues.

The heisman articles mean jack ****. Local papers promoting small school guys as heisman candidates is nothing new and certainly not grounds for draft value.

So if you want to argue between 5-6th and 4-5th in one of the deepest draft ever, whatever. He was drafted too high, even according to two articles before his combine that LIKED him.

 

[USDA#1]

Joe Washington, anyone?

listed at 5-10...no freakin way...I stood next to him at a charity dealio....he may have shrunk.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WashJo00.htm

again, not pimpin, just putting the info up.