Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

[antdrewjosh]

Says the dude who posts a Dri Archer article almost daily and continues to re-type the same posts day in, day out.

Im not the one bitching about the length of the thread. I hope it reaches a thousand.

 

[Superman]

Im not the one bitching about the length of the thread. I hope it reaches a thousand.

or, roughly, the number of yards from scrimmage Dri will get THIS season.
since he's the love child of a triangle involving Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Mary Lou Retton.

 

[t-man]

This is such a limp attempt at smack that I'm not sure where it's even going. Then again, coming from the guy who told me that Colclough and McFadden panned out as good, solid second-round picks.. I'm not surprised.

The essense was that the LAST second round pick I remembered totally ******** the bed was Limas. ****, I suppose if I go back far enough we can find a bunch more, I'll leave that to you, seems one of your favorite activities is to tell us all about every player who has ever sucked, and why, as well as to inform us of all the future players that are going to suck. Oh, and to let us know who we should have taken instead.

Thanks!

Joe

 

[Idioteque]

The essense was that the LAST second round pick I remembered totally ******** the bed was Limas. ****, I suppose if I go back far enough we can find a bunch more, I'll leave that to you, seems one of your favorite activities is to tell us all about every player who has ever sucked, and why, as well as to inform us of all the future players that are going to suck. Oh, and to let us know who we should have taken instead.

Thanks!

Joe

Yes, you claimed that our last second-round bust in recent memory was Sweed (which is absurd on its own). When I brought up many more, including more recent ones than Sweed, you explained that Gilbert, Adams, Worilds, Colclough, and McFadden actually kinda panned out and weren't busts. By name, in fact.

As I've said repeatedly, these are just opinions. I think a lot of other players are better than Archer. I don't know why that's so ******* offensive to you cheerleaders.

What's more fact and less opinion is that, of players with Archer's profile (elite track speed, good quickness, tiny, injury-prone, fumbles a ton, no real position, small school, medium usage in college) have historically succeeded at a roughly 0% clip.

 

[t-man]

Yes, you claimed that our last second-round bust in recent memory was Sweed (which is absurd on its own). When I brought up many more, including more recent ones than Sweed, you explained that Gilbert, Adams, Worilds, Colclough, and McFadden actually kinda panned out and weren't busts. By name, in fact.

As I've said repeatedly, these are just opinions. I think a lot of other players are better than Archer. I don't know why that's so ******* offensive to you cheerleaders.

What's more fact and less opinion is that, of players with Archer's profile (elite track speed, good quickness, tiny, injury-prone, fumbles a ton, no real position, small school, medium usage in college) have historically succeeded at a roughly 0% clip.

Gilbert does pretty well on the right side, Adams also did pretty well on the right. I understand the coaches were looking to move one of them to the left, and that experiment was a ******* train wreck, but if you're trying to say two guys who have been fairly productive are on the same level as ******* Sweed, you're on crack. Worlids will prove his worth, or not, this year, seems he is showing something though. Colclough was a swing and a miss, but for ***** sake, we're going back to 2004? I mean, that's fine, but my point was Sweed was the last 2nd rounder to actually bust out as a Steeler. You know, as in bust, as in what the rest of the ************* world calls a bust, not what you ******* jackholes here call a bust. Maybe that's not clear enough for you, but I honestly don't know how the **** else to explain it.

Joe

 

[Idioteque]

Gilbert does pretty well on the right side, Adams also did pretty well on the right. I understand the coaches were looking to move one of them to the left, and that experiment was a ******* train wreck, but if you're trying to say two guys who have been fairly productive are on the same level as ******* Sweed, you're on crack. Worlids will prove his worth, or not, this year, seems he is showing something though. Colclough was a swing and a miss, but for ***** sake, we're going back to 2004? I mean, that's fine, but my point was Sweed was the last 2nd rounder to actually bust out as a Steeler. You know, as in bust, as in what the rest of the ************* world calls a bust, not what you ******* jackholes here call a bust. Maybe that's not clear enough for you, but I honestly don't know how the **** else to explain it.

Joe

Your exact claim was that "Gilbert sucks" <-- direct quote

Now Adams and Gilbert are "fairly productive"?

They keep getting benched for each other, dude!

 

[t-man]

I was going off on Gilbert due to his recent ability to keep ******* falling into his own linemen. At the end of last year, it seemed to me the oline as a whole was doing better. Would I personally have chosen Gilbert based on what I've seen? Nope, most likely I wouldn't have, but that doesn't make him a bust.

Joe

 

[t-man]

Oh, after seeing Beechum in two preseason games, I also said he ******* sucked. Looks like he doesn't, I suppose that's why I post here on the message board.

Joe

 

[deljzc]

Going back to what I expect from Archer, here were Rainey's participation and statistics from his rookie season:

Rainey played 149/1072 offensive snaps (13.9%) with Redman & Dwyer ahead of him on the depth chart.

Rainey had 3 punt returns, 39 kickoff returns (26.5 ave), 26 rush attempts (102 yards), 14 receptions (60 yards), 2 touchdowns, 4 fumbles (1 lost)

Pro Football Reference gave Rainey a 1 "Approximate Value" for this season.

Where is Archer going to significantly improve vs. Rainey's rookie season and how?

Rainey was +3 yards per kickoff return vs. the league average (26.5 vs. 23.6). What should we expect from Archer?

Rainey fielded 3 punts, fumbling 1 (not lost). Is Archer our official punt returner? Last year we had 32 punt returns for 409 yards and 1 TD. How much better should I expect Archer to make our team in this statistic?

Rainey played 149 snaps on offense. Is Archer going to get more than this and if so, how much more?

Rainey had 26 rush attempts and 14 catches (on 22 targets). He generated 162 yards, 1 TD and 6 first downs on those touches. What should I reasonably expect from Archer? More? How much more?

This is the real issue for me. Rainey was a 5th round pick. I know return specialists exist in every draft. So how much BETTER than those guys must Archer be to me to justify a top-100 pick in a very deep draft?

Should I demand 2-3 return touchdowns per season now and if I don't get them, be mad?

Should I demand Archer get 250 offensive snaps and 75 offensive touches per season and if not should I be mad?

Should I demand Archer get 5.0 YPC on his rushing attempts? And 10.0 YPC on his catches?

Should I demand only 1 fumbles lost on those touches (75 offense, 75 returns)?

If he achieves all this, he's probably a 3-4 AV guy according to Pro Football Reference and on pace to achieve his 13+ AV over the course of his rookie contract. That's the standard. We will just wait and see what happens.

 

[t-man]

By the way, remember all this "in your face, you said this, you said that" bullshit when that "these 10 players are going to rock your ******* world, and make you wish you had never ******* heard the name Dri Archer" list comes back to haunt you. Wait till the first ************ on that list gets cut.

Joe

 

[Superman]

for Vader, part 90

 

[antdrewjosh]

Examples??? He will wait patiently.

 

[t-man]

for Vader, part 90

One of him in his number 90. For the sake of completeness.

 

[Idioteque]

I was going off on Gilbert due to his recent ability to keep ******* falling into his own linemen. At the end of last year, it seemed to me the oline as a whole was doing better. Would I personally have chosen Gilbert based on what I've seen? Nope, most likely I wouldn't have, but that doesn't make him a bust.

I guess not. I can claim that Sweed and Zo Jackson and JaMarcus Russell weren't busts, either, if it helps my argument. Feel free to call Gilbert and Adams and Colclough solid players if you want; I couldn't care less, and I'm certanly not gonna (Google) document it for future whack-off sessions. Just pointing out that it would be silly.

Oh, after seeing Beechum in two preseason games, I also said he ******* sucked. Looks like he doesn't, I suppose that's why I post here on the message board.

Joe

I guess so. It's like when I thought so highly of Hood, Anthony Smith, Tony Hills, etc. I don't care who winds up wrong. But some of you guys have an obsession.

 

[t-man]

Going back to what I expect from Archer, here were Rainey's participation and statistics from his rookie season:

Rainey played 149/1072 offensive snaps (13.9%) with Redman & Dwyer ahead of him on the depth chart.

Rainey had 3 punt returns, 39 kickoff returns (26.5 ave), 26 rush attempts (102 yards), 14 receptions (60 yards), 2 touchdowns, 4 fumbles (1 lost)

Pro Football Reference gave Rainey a 1 "Approximate Value" for this season.

Where is Archer going to significantly improve vs. Rainey's rookie season and how?

Rainey was +3 yards per kickoff return vs. the league average (26.5 vs. 23.6). What should we expect from Archer?

Rainey fielded 3 punts, fumbling 1 (not lost). Is Archer our official punt returner? Last year we had 32 punt returns for 409 yards and 1 TD. How much better should I expect Archer to make our team in this statistic?

Rainey played 149 snaps on offense. Is Archer going to get more than this and if so, how much more?

Rainey had 26 rush attempts and 14 catches (on 22 targets). He generated 162 yards, 1 TD and 6 first downs on those touches. What should I reasonably expect from Archer? More? How much more?

This is the real issue for me. Rainey was a 5th round pick. I know return specialists exist in every draft. So how much BETTER than those guys must Archer be to me to justify a top-100 pick in a very deep draft?

Should I demand 2-3 return touchdowns per season now and if I don't get them, be mad?

Should I demand Archer get 250 offensive snaps and 75 offensive touches per season and if not should I be mad?

Should I demand Archer get 5.0 YPC on his rushing attempts? And 10.0 YPC on his catches?

Should I demand only 1 fumbles lost on those touches (75 offense, 75 returns)?

If he achieves all this, he's probably a 3-4 AV guy according to Pro Football Reference and on pace to achieve his 13+ AV over the course of his rookie contract. That's the standard. We will just wait and see what happens.

ARE didn't throw a lot of passes, but one of them went for a touchdown in a SuperBowl. I'd say if the kid does what is asked of him when he gets on the field, then I'd expect he's doing what's asked of him. When Rainey was here we had ******* Redman and Dwyer, we now have Bell and Blount, I doubt he's going to see the backfield carries Rainey did.

 

[Idioteque]

By the way, remember all this "in your face, you said this, you said that" bullshit when that "these 10 players are going to rock your ******* world, and make you wish you had never ******* heard the name Dri Archer" list comes back to haunt you. Wait till the first ************ on that list gets cut.

Joe

Oh **** me. I DO NOT CARE. I will gleefully provide you with a list of players/teams/outcomes I've been dead wrong about over the years. There are tons of examples. Whatever it takes for your substance-free, blind-swinging bullshit to stop flooding my screen.

I can assure you, I could not conceivably care less about your stated opinions of my football knowledge.

 

[t-man]

Oh **** me. I DO NOT CARE. I will gleefully provide you with a list of players/teams/outcomes I've been dead wrong about over the years. There are tons of examples. Whatever it takes for your substance-free, blind-swinging bullshit to stop flooding my screen.

I can assure you, I could not conceivably care less about your stated opinions of my football knowledge.

Your football knowledge is not the issue, the "talent evaluation" and "Future seeing" are really what we're looking at.



Joe

 

[antdrewjosh]

Oh **** me. I DO NOT CARE. I will gleefully provide you with a list of players/teams/outcomes I've been dead wrong about over the years. There are tons of examples. Whatever it takes for your substance-free, blind-swinging bullshit to stop flooding my screen.

I can assure you, I could not conceivably care less about your stated opinions of my football knowledge.

Yet your still in this thread pounding them keys. You've made your position well known. TMC said he was done havent seen him since. Not in this thread sadly even the board. Yet here you are 90 pages in still typing.

 

[deljzc]

So he's going to get LESS offensive touches than Rainey?

I might consider the pick a failure if just that happens (unless his production is extraordinary). My problem is now the production of Archer has to almost be this extraordinary to yield above average results on the investment. He has to produce a lot on very limited opportunities.

Not sure I think that is fair to him yet the Steelers kind of brought this on themselves.

People forget we were already one of the best punt return teams in the league last year (A. Brown getting the majority). We had a 12.8 average and 1 TD (league average was 9.4 and less than 0.5 TD's). I doubt Archer is really going to improve that statistic vs. a year ago.

We should get better at kick returns (we were 1 yard below average), but how much when we are only talking 40 kick returns a year anyhow.

The positives of Archer just aren't adding up to me unless he's getting pretty significant touches on offense (and that means possibly Blount isn't going to be used as much as we think and will split time with Archer).

 

[Vader]

Right, you ************* have all just been saying he has a .000000000000001% chance, just in case. I'd have more ******* respect for you if you came down firmly and said he'd never have a shot, at least that would show some ******* stones.

Joe

Bullshit. You'd ***** it either way and you know it.

 

[Idioteque]

Your football knowledge is not the issue, the "talent evaluation" and "Future seeing" are really what we're looking at.



Joe

But I can't see the future..

 

[Litos]

So he's going to get LESS offensive touches than Rainey?

I might consider the pick a failure if just that happens (unless his production is extraordinary). My problem is now the production of Archer has to almost be this extraordinary to yield above average results on the investment. He has to produce a lot on very limited opportunities.

Not sure I think that is fair to him yet the Steelers kind of brought this on themselves.

People forget we were already one of the best punt return teams in the league last year (A. Brown getting the majority). We had a 12.8 average and 1 TD (league average was 9.4 and less than 0.5 TD's). I doubt Archer is really going to improve that statistic vs. a year ago.

We should get better at kick returns (we were 1 yard below average), but how much when we are only talking 40 kick returns a year anyhow.

The positives of Archer just aren't adding up to me unless he's getting pretty significant touches on offense (and that means possibly Blount isn't going to be used as much as we think and will split time with Archer).

I doubt there's any serious Steeler fan wanting Antonio Brown out there playing Kick and punt return duties. If the new kid can keep Brown's stats on special teams it would already be a win win situation. You keep being efficient while protecting your most important player on offense (after Ben of course)

 

[Vader]

So he's going to get LESS offensive touches than Rainey?

I might consider the pick a failure if just that happens (unless his production is extraordinary). My problem is now the production of Archer has to almost be this extraordinary to yield above average results on the investment. He has to produce a lot on very limited opportunities.

Not sure I think that is fair to him yet the Steelers kind of brought this on themselves.

People forget we were already one of the best punt return teams in the league last year (A. Brown getting the majority). We had a 12.8 average and 1 TD (league average was 9.4 and less than 0.5 TD's). I doubt Archer is really going to improve that statistic vs. a year ago.

We should get better at kick returns (we were 1 yard below average), but how much when we are only talking 40 kick returns a year anyhow.

The positives of Archer just aren't adding up to me unless he's getting pretty significant touches on offense (and that means possibly Blount isn't going to be used as much as we think and will split time with Archer).

Stop talking about Football ****. Get into the Archer circle jerk and just admit that he is going to be great. Nobody cares if he makes the team better or not. He's fast. That's all that matters.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Stop talking about Football ****. Get into the Archer circle jerk and just admit that he is going to be great. Nobody cares if he makes the team better or not. He's fast. That's all that matters.

When we talked football the convo was quickly steered back to value.

 

[Vader]

When we talked football the convo was quickly steered back to value.

Yea, because value has no "value" with you people. When I started talking football it was IMMEDIATELY