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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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'I like the fact that you cherry-picked one of his FOUR college seasons. But I'm guessing that 2012 was a fluke, because he fumbled 5 times in 2010 and 4 times in 2013. ******* A, the dude fumbled 4 times in 95 touches (including returns!!) last year! In 2010, he fumbled 5 times in 83 touches'!

So let's use LAST year as an example then (the year he played injured, sounds fair to me)...he had 4 fumbles on 95 touches PLUS 10 TDs...so, if he gets 5 touches per game x 16 games he has 80 touches for 9 TDs plus 3.5 fumbles. Ok, you win.
 
on second thought, idiot, a quick google search shows you post on nearly every goddamn message board on the internet.
i'll just stalk your dumb *** here.
 
Sure hurt the careers of Franco and Tony Dorsett...who fumbled an average of 11.785 times per 427 touches and 11.486 times per 427 touches respectively.

Projecting "Archer, the Fumbler", he would be at 11.529 fumbles which puts him RIGHT between 2 HOF RBs in fumbles per touch. WOW! Why did those FUMBLERS get drafted?

Get one thing straight, Franco Harris was a fumbler. It was one of his biggest flaws, as was Dorsett. Harris, Dorsett, and Walter Peyton are in the top 5 for most fumbles by NON-QBs in the history of the NFL. The reason they have so many is because they did others things well. Harris was a 230-pound runningback with speed and pretty good hands in an era where 230-pound runningbacks were rare. Dorsett was a 200-pound runningback with good hands and electric moves. Both are two of the greatest runningbacks in the history of the NFL. Are you really comparing the game of Archer and Dorsett/Harris? Or, do you simply want to state that other players have fumbled so it should be a non-issue, well, until he starts fumbling at a high rate in the NFL and gets benched. They benched Mendenhall and Redman for fumbles. Mendenhall had 13 in over 1000 touches (same number of fumbles as Archer, twice the touches). Redman had 8 in 333 touches, or a fumble every 41 touches, much less than Archer. Richard Huntley was once thought to have the skills of a feature back. He averaged 5.3 yards per carry in Pittsburgh and 4.7 over his career. He could catch. He could pass block. What killed him? Fumbles, 12 in 448 touches. You can find all the HOF backs you want that fumbled, but they all have other characteristics that put them in the hall of fame and those characteristics outweigh the flaws, which was fumbling. If Archer was 6'1"-230 pounds with great feet and flypaper hands, maybe. He is not.

It is kind of like andrewjosh's weak *** effort to show Archer has speed/quickness by comparing him to Wallace, Parker, and others. Everyone wants to forget that Parker also had a great ability to cut and make guys miss, he could also run through tackles, he used vision and feel to get through holes and could drop his pads and power through tackles. Wallace had height and the ability to run routes well enough, especially deeper routes, where he could burn the DBs AND go up and fight for the pass. But, bring that up, he states no one is comparing the players, although he is damn sure ready to compare speed/quickness. If speed and quickness alone made the NFL, they would not watch film, just go to the nearest track meet and hire guys.

But hey, I get it, I see how this comparison thing works, Emmett Smith played RB, Archer plays RB, so Archer should break the all-time rushing record. It only took me bashing my head about 100 times with a hammer to see the light.
 
I just screencaptured this from a video at Steelers.com....

Archer_zpse9e58a29.jpg
 
Parker did not make people miss,not on a regular basis. Cut off a block yes..make someone miss in the open field no. Only way he could beat someone was if could out run the angle. Yes he was a good runner in between the tackles not what i was referring too. Im talking about the ability make people miss in small spaces. Wallace has great deep speed but could not throttle down once up to top speed. Example if a pass was underthrown he couldnt come back for it. It also takes him a second to build back up. Archer doesnt display that. He can make a move in open field and get back up to top speed quickly..im not comparing every aspect of their game..
 
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You do alot of exaggerating to make a point too.
 
"If speed and quickness alone made the NFL, they would not watch film, just go to the nearest track meet and hire guys."



Because thats the only football ability the kid has displayed.
 
Dri getting down to business....really looking forward to seeing how Haley is going to involve him in the O.

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Fumbling and turnovers were much more "accepted" by offensive coaches back in the day.

According to Pro Football Reference, turnovers by fumbling has significantly declined over the past 30 years as offensive coaches deplore turnovers and under appreciate natural running talent at the position.

In 1960, There were 1.13 fumbles lost per game.
In 1965, there were 1.16 fumbles lost per game.
In 1970, there were 1.02 fumbles lost per game.
In 1975 there were 1.14 fumbles lost per game.
In 1980 there were 0.92 fumbles lost per game.
In 1985 there were 1.04 fumbles lost per game.
In 1990 there were 0.92 fumbles lost per game.
In 1995 there were 0.84 fumbles lost per game.
In 2000 there were 0.81 fumbles lost per game.
In 2005 there were 0.76 fumbles lost per game.
In 2010 there were 0.68 fumbles lost per game.
In 2013 there were 0.61 fumbles lost per game.

In reality, there are probably 60% of the number of fumbles lost now as there were in the 1970's. Just a continuing evolution of offenses and what is important to offensive coaches. Coaches like Tomlin are not accepting of ANY fumbling where in the old days, coaches like Noll expected a certain amount from their backs/quarterbacks. Times have changed.

Over a third of all fumbles are reversed upon review. Should be factored into pre-replay era.
 
This is my last tidbit about the size argument when people say over the course of history of the NFL. The NFL is changing and when I read someone make the two hand touch reference it made me laugh because last year when Tavon Austin went that high I thought the same thing. He's too small. But then I started thinking about how you can't hit over the middle, can't lead with your helmet, can't hit a defenseless receiver. etc. This is not the same NFL from even 5 years ago and the direction it is going is where it's about speed and big plays. Shazier fits perfectly to the NFL today because he is fast and when he tackles he keeps his head up and wraps up. He will not be penalized a lot. Zumwalt I really liked the pick until I started realizing he is old school. The dude actually suplexed someone. In todays nfl a fine and suspension for that. Austin, Archer, and in a year or two Kermit Whitfield from FSU will probably be picked high too. In todays NFL it is not about size but speed and the ever changing landscape of how it is played. Yes, in 1999 Austin and Archer would have been killed by a Lynch, Flowers, Harrison safety but now those guys are few and far between.
 
This is my last tidbit about the size argument when people say over the course of history of the NFL. The NFL is changing and when I read someone make the two hand touch reference it made me laugh because last year when Tavon Austin went that high I thought the same thing. He's too small. But then I started thinking about how you can't hit over the middle, can't lead with your helmet, can't hit a defenseless receiver. etc. This is not the same NFL from even 5 years ago and the direction it is going is where it's about speed and big plays. Shazier fits perfectly to the NFL today because he is fast and when he tackles he keeps his head up and wraps up. He will not be penalized a lot. Zumwalt I really liked the pick until I started realizing he is old school. The dude actually suplexed someone. In todays nfl a fine and suspension for that. Austin, Archer, and in a year or two Kermit Whitfield from FSU will be a guy like that. In todays NFL it is not about size but speed and the ever changing landscape of how it is played. Yes, in 1999 Austin and Archer would have been killed by a Lynch, Flowers, Harrison safety but now those guys are few and far between.

Seems like it will be almost impossible for a defender to NOT to initiate contact with Dri's helmet.
 
I don't have a crystal ball. What you're asking for is my 10 favorite players at that pick, correct? I'll provide it as best as I remember, but I'm not sure what that's going to prove. That I don't scout players better than the Steelers do? I don't think I've ever made that claim. My point here is just that, even if Archer reverses EVERY trend and becomes a fine KR/gadget back, I think (as does common sense) that we should have taken a more valuable prospect there. Not sure what the specific player has to do with anything. I think Archer will be something of a washout. If we had taken Bruce Ellington there and he had washed out, I would have considered it a better decision.

Bruce Ellington
Rashaad Reynolds
Antonio Richardson
Carl Bradford
Ryan Carrethers
Justin Ellis
Daquan Jones
Jared Abbrederis
Cameron Fleming
Nevin Lawson

Something of a washout? Gee, that doesn't sound anything like some of your previous claims, but I shall accept your list, and since you said you would be naming 10 that we would wish we had, I'm guessing you predict none of these will have LESS success than Archer, correct?

Joe
 
BTW, the point I'm trying to make here is often we have these discussions 4-5 years down the road and go on and on about "Gee, we shoulda taken dick dicerson from dick state university, cause he ******* rocks, and he was AVAILABLE!!!! But, most times dick dickerson had some reasons he slid the **** past us that we all seem to forget when it's x years away.

We shall see how it works out, it will be nice, for once, to have a list that was put out RIGHT AFTER the draft to compare to.

Joe
 
This is my last tidbit about the size argument when people say over the course of history of the NFL. The NFL is changing and when I read someone make the two hand touch reference it made me laugh because last year when Tavon Austin went that high I thought the same thing. He's too small. But then I started thinking about how you can't hit over the middle, can't lead with your helmet, can't hit a defenseless receiver. etc. This is not the same NFL from even 5 years ago and the direction it is going is where it's about speed and big plays. Shazier fits perfectly to the NFL today because he is fast and when he tackles he keeps his head up and wraps up. He will not be penalized a lot. Zumwalt I really liked the pick until I started realizing he is old school. The dude actually suplexed someone. In todays nfl a fine and suspension for that. Austin, Archer, and in a year or two Kermit Whitfield from FSU will be a guy like that. In todays NFL it is not about size but speed and the ever changing landscape of how it is played. Yes, in 1999 Austin and Archer would have been killed by a Lynch, Flowers, Harrison safety but now those guys are few and far between.

Seems like it will be almost impossible for a defender to NOT to initiate contact with Dri's helmet.
 
Seems like it will be almost impossible for a defender to NOT to initiate contact with Dri's helmet.

You know, I both want to laugh and cry at the same time. I think this is a valid point, what happens when you draft a 5'5" WR, he catches the ball, and tucks his head? Where the hell is a 6 foot linebacker supposed to hit him, unless he's dropping to all fours he's going to hit him in the helmet/shoulder area..... Could get interesting.

Joe
 
Parker did not make people miss,not on a regular basis. Cut off a block yes..make someone miss in the open field no. Only way he could beat someone was if could out run the angle. Yes he was a good runner in between the tackles not what i was referring too. Im talking about the ability make people miss in small spaces. Wallace has great deep speed but could not throttle down once up to top speed. Example if a pass was underthrown he couldnt come back for it. It also takes him a second to build back up. Archer doesnt display that. He can make a move in open field and get back up to top speed quickly..im not comparing every aspect of their game..

That is bullshit. Parker made plenty of people miss, just like he did in the first and last play of this clip:



Parker just did his with hard cuts. And, another reason he was effective, he would lower his shoulder and run with power, breaking tackles, means the DBs and LBs would settle their feet, allowing him to beat them with speed. Another aspect Archer does not have. The only way Archer runs between the tackles is if the hole is large enough for Casey Hampton to fit through.

Of course you are not comparing every aspect of their game, because ALL Archer has is his speed and quickness. He lacks size. He lacks power. He fumbles. He is not the route runner Wallace is. He cannot challenge deep like Wallace. No way you can compare the complete player because Archer falls woefully short (no pun intended). So, you compare the only areas where he can be compared, but THOSE areas alone does not project you to be an NFL player, it is all the other **** wrapped around it.
 
Something of a washout? Gee, that doesn't sound anything like some of your previous claims

When did I say anything different? I think he'll struggle to dress at times, and at others be an oft-injured KR who struggles to find a role on offense. That's how I've felt since the draft; not sure I've wavered at all.

but I shall accept your list, and since you said you would be naming 10 that we would wish we had, I'm guessing you predict none of these will have LESS success than Archer, correct?

Joe

I guess, if that gets your dick hard. But I'm not attempting to tell the future. I think all of those PICKS would have been much better, smarter PICKS than Archer. I think that, as of May 2014, they have better futures and more potential value. At this stage, all these guys are are picks. Potential future chess pieces. We don't even know what they look like in shoulder pads. ****, Darren Sharper was a serial rapist and nobody knew it. All I have to judge these guys by is some film clips and scouting reports. The reason I'm so down on the Archer picks is because he doesn't look 50/50 like the rest of these guys; he looks like the longest of longshots. But I don't know. Maybe he throws on 20 lbs of muscle and turns into Roger Craig, it's just historically unprecedented and flies in the face of common sense, so I think the pick was stupid.

As to whether they pan out better than Archer, I don't think I care nearly as much as you do. Archer's the Steeler, and he's the one I care about.
 
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How many pages was Jarvis' thread last year?
 
Parker made one person miss on that clip. He out ran the angle on the others just like I said. If you took the proper angle you had a great chance of making the tackle. Yes Parker was stronger and was able to break some tackles if not wrapped properly. Archer is smaller different back. You can take the correct angle and he can either outrun the angle or make you miss. Elusive is the word im looking for. Parker was not elusive. He learned how to be patient and cut off his blocks I said that. But making that free guy miss was not his strong point unless that free guy took a stupid angle..
 
Parker made one person miss on that clip. He out ran the angle on the others just like I said. If you took the proper angle you had a great chance of making the tackle. Yes Parker was stronger and was able to break some tackles if not wrapped properly. Archer is smaller different back. You can take the correct angle and he can either outrun the angle or make you miss. Elusive is the word im looking for. Parker was not elusive. He learned how to be patient and cut off his blocks I said that. But making that free guy miss was not his strong point unless that free guy took a stupid angle..

Parker was bigger stronger and broke tackles, but he still got hurt and never cam back from it. Size doesn't prevent injury. Hope the kid works out.
 
Get one thing straight, Franco Harris was a fumbler. It was one of his biggest flaws, as was Dorsett. Harris, Dorsett, and Walter Peyton are in the top 5 for most fumbles by NON-QBs in the history of the NFL. The reason they have so many is because they did others things well. And Archer does nothing else well? I would suggest the OTHER things is the reason he was drafted Harris was a 230-pound runningback with speed and pretty good hands in an era where 230-pound runningbacks were rare. Dorsett was a 200-pound runningback with good hands and electric moves. Both are two of the greatest runningbacks in the history of the NFL. Are you really comparing the game of Archer and Dorsett/Harris? Of course not. Archer hasn't done a thing in the NFL. The point I was trying to make is that MOST RBs can have issues w fumbles once in a while. Barry Sanders had 10 his first season then never got higher than 6. It's an ebb and flow kind of stat (like Interceptions w QBs) Maybe his most productive season where he amassed more than 60% of ALL of his college carries is the norm. (2 fumbles) Maybe it's not. BUT ALL KO and Punt returners have higher averages for fumbles because they can fumble w/out taking possession. I just don't see enough "consistency" in his fumbling to call it one way or another. Or, do you simply want to state that other players have fumbled so it should be a non-issue, well, until he starts fumbling at a high rate in the NFL and gets benched. They benched Mendenhall and Redman for fumbles. Mendenhall had 13 in over 1000 touches (same number of fumbles as Archer, twice the touches). Redman had 8 in 333 touches, or a fumble every 41 touches, much less than Archer. Richard Huntley was once thought to have the skills of a feature back. He averaged 5.3 yards per carry in Pittsburgh and 4.7 over his career. He could catch. He could pass block. What killed him? Fumbles, 12 in 448 touches. You can find all the HOF backs you want that fumbled, but they all have other characteristics that put them in the hall of fame and those characteristics outweigh the flaws, which was fumbling. If Archer was 6'1"-230 pounds with great feet and flypaper hands, maybe. He is not.

It is kind of like andrewjosh's weak *** effort to show Archer has speed/quickness by comparing him to Wallace, Parker, and others. Everyone wants to forget that Parker also had a great ability to cut and make guys miss, he could also run through tackles, he used vision and feel to get through holes and could drop his pads and power through tackles. Wallace had height and the ability to run routes well enough, especially deeper routes, where he could burn the DBs AND go up and fight for the pass. Wallace was a known "one trick pony", you know this. He never fought back to the ball, never fought for a ball in the air and could not run a route if it had more than a slight hitch in it. Really? But, bring that up, he states no one is comparing the players, although he is damn sure ready to compare speed/quickness. If speed and quickness alone made the NFL, they would not watch film, just go to the nearest track meet and hire guys. If Archer was a speed only guy, he would be Wallace. He is not. He makes guys turn with his moves...then they rarely lay a hand on him (when he is in space). He is a liability when he is trapped BUT how long did it take Rocky to finally catch that damn chicken?

But hey, I get it, I see how this comparison thing works, Emmett Smith played RB, Archer plays RB, so Archer should break the all-time rushing record. It only took me bashing my head about 100 times with a hammer to see the light.
You know me well enough to know that I am NOT saying Archer will be the next Barry Sanders. I'm just not willing to say he will suck, fumble and be hurt all the damn time because Rainey was a totally different style runner who THOUGHT he was a 230# RB. I think this kid knows his limitations which is why you see him short-arm some screens that would've gotten him killed and doesn't always lay-out for a pass for the same reasoning. Given his elusive nature and ability to turn guys around, I don't think there is a LB in the league that will be able to corral this kid. (see Rocky and chicken).
 
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